[Huck Banzai]

Short story is budget concerns negate the option of a new frame, so I am going to make my VPFree last a little longer.

In the past I have seen discussions of swapping the stock 8.75 x 2.75 shock for an 8.5 x 2.5 and most of the feedback seemed really good.

Problem is, searches come up with weaksauce or tiny nuggets.

As I understand it will take me from 8.5" to ~7.7 Inches, losing a hair over 3/4"; That I will drop BB ~.5" and Slacken HT ~1deg.

A> Who has done this, what do you think.

B> are the numbers right? Based on a recent change - raising my stem .5" and rotating bars a modicum forward - a little change can make a BIG difference, and I get the impression this is one of those changes.

I am also considering dropping the front end via replacing 888rc2x with 66rc2x -- I think lower BB is more of an issue than Slackness, but I will potentially see.


Im holding off on sending my 5th element in to Avy to be turned into a good shock (!) for now -- season is a few months away, and Blur LT has my attention now...

SmartyPants KnowItAlls *ARE WELCOME* - please get your 2c in.

 

[Bicyclist]

You probably won't drop the front end much between the 888 and 66, a lower fork like a Boxxer might be of more use.

Also, I think someone here made a lower link that slackens the VP Free out without needing a shorter shock, but I could be wrong. That might be worth looking into.

 

[Huck Banzai]

You probably won't drop the front end much between the 888 and 66, a lower fork like a Boxxer might be of more use.

Also, I think someone here made a lower link that slackens the VP Free out without needing a shorter shock, but I could be wrong. That might be worth looking into.

Whats the diff in A2C between an 06 66Rc2x and an 07 888RC2x? 30mm difference in travel - if the A2C diff is close to that, I would think it could be pretty significant, but that is also why I digressed to the 'know-it-alls' (I dont KIA, despite popular opinion )

Yeah, that was Gemeni2k - the friend couldnt make another link.

I would have to test that setup regardless because it involves increasing the CS by ~1" - Im not so sure thats such a great idea, I really dont want a 50" wheelbase!

 

[time-bomb]

In theory you can make everything balance out and it will make the bike feel slightly smaller. However, putting a shorter i2i shock on a frame, especially a linkage driven frame, will change the suspension characteristics. VPPs have a "sweet spot" and you very well may end up past that by the time you settle into sag.

I haven't done this on a VP Free but I did try it on a Horst Link bike that was pretty progressive. I was able to dial in the geometry to where I liked it but the suspension never felt as good. I was loosing small bump sensitivity due to the fact that most of my riding was being done in the more progressive stages of the travel due the linkage starting further into its cycle.

In order to avoid this on a VPP system, you may have to run a stiffer spring than you want to so you don't settle past the "sweet spot" but then you loose the sensitivity anyway due to the stiffer spring. Doing this on a linkage driven bikes is quite a bit more difficult because of the complexity of the suspension. This is much easier to do on a single pivot bike that is not linkage driven and fairly linear.

So, it's not that it can't be done, but it mostly likely is not going to feel the same as it does now or pedal the same for that matter. Just something to think about.

 

[Huck Banzai]

I got some pretty good feedback from the owner of DHZone in Seattle among other trustworthy guys (IMHO). They all seemed to think pedaling would suffer mildy, but suspension should be fine -- but of course I want more feedback, hopefully from some people who have or have had this setup - I recall a few people touting it, with no negative feedback, but that was ~2 years ago (when they still made the frame)

I might consider getting the link made, Im sure I can find someone to do it -- but again - hoping for some feedback from guru like suspension geeks (My asessment = it r go boing!) - I wonder how much?!

 

[gemini2k]

Hey, I talked to my buddy who made the original one. It's identical to the stock link excpet the holes are 3/4" further apart. I can talk to one of my other friend at a machine shop (they make stealth hubs) if you want. I'm sure he'll be able to make me an exact replica.

I'll tell you this. The suspension probably doesn't feel as good, but I'm a plow rider anyways, but the geo is godlike. The extra CS length is probably a good thing for me. Bike feels amazingly stable on fast and steep stuff. 14"bb, 64HA, 49.5 WB with a slammed 888 (past the approved limit)

The real question is, how much are you willing to pay? I have no idea what he'll charge me. If you're serious I'll take it off my bike and get a copy made.

 

[drkenan]

There's a big thread on MTBR about this subject. You should look it up...it's in the Santa Cruz forum IIRC.

 

[TKCastle]

I done the Shorty shock on my VP. You must do it, the difference's are night and day. I race dh with my free and the way the bike turned was nothing to write home about. With the shorter shock it felt great, granted it's not going to rail like an m6 but the difference made me want to ride more just to feel the difference.

Giving up whatever travel loss was no biggie, I never bottomed out, Im 230 with gear and it soaked up 10 ft drops no problem. I run just one click of PP and it fells just as supple and bottom-less as the 8.75 but that's my opinion.
The pedaling side is effected slightly but only at slower speeds. If your moving and your legs are strong you will have no problem.

Im running a fox 40 on mine, never measured HA but BB height is around 14.7 with a 2.35 high roller in the rear.

 

[dan-o]

What Gemini/TK said.

I will never put the stock shock length back on my bike. The geo and performance change far outweighs the negatives (slightly worse pedaling and less travel; both of which are negligible). I made the change before a trip to whistler, which I had ridden on the stock length many times, and was blown away by the improvement.

I run a DHX5 on mine but also have an Avy sitting on my workbench that I might slap on.

 

[Huck Banzai]

Hey, I talked to my buddy who made the original one. It's identical to the stock link excpet the holes are 3/4" further apart. I can talk to one of my other friend at a machine shop (they make stealth hubs) if you want. I'm sure he'll be able to make me an exact replica.

I'll tell you this. The suspension probably doesn't feel as good, but I'm a plow rider anyways, but the geo is godlike. The extra CS length is probably a good thing for me. Bike feels amazingly stable on fast and steep stuff. 14"bb, 64HA, 49.5 WB with a slammed 888 (past the approved limit)

The real question is, how much are you willing to pay? I have no idea what he'll charge me. If you're serious I'll take it off my bike and get a copy made.

Its definitely interesting. I am going to do the shock thing, I might try the link as well. Can you estimate/do you have any idea what that would cost me? If its not too much, I might give it a go!

 

[4130biker]

If I remember correctly, the A-C height of the 888 and 66 are very close (with the flat 888 crown all the way down). The crown on the 66 isn't as flat as the 888.. I think they may have done this so the crown for the 66 clears the downtube on most bikes.
Anyway, listed on the website, it says they have almost 30 mm difference, however, I think that is with the 888 flat crowns in a high position. I remember debating between these forks and deciding on the 888 back in 06 since it was almost as low but with 200 mm travel. (Picture to compare 888 and 66 claims.. Monster T not recommended.)

 

[gemini2k]

Its definitely interesting. I am going to do the shock thing, I might try the link as well. Can you estimate/do you have any idea what that would cost me? If its not too much, I might give it a go!

I'll see what I can do, guy's out of town, might not have an answer till after thanksgiving.

 

[Huck Banzai]

If I remember correctly, the A-C height of the 888 and 66 are very close (with the flat 888 crown all the way down). The crown on the 66 isn't as flat as the 888.. I think they may have done this so the crown for the 66 clears the downtube on most bikes.
Anyway, listed on the website, it says they have almost 30 mm difference, however, I think that is with the 888 flat crowns in a high position. I remember debating between these forks and deciding on the 888 back in 06 since it was almost as low but with 200 mm travel. (Picture to compare 888 and 66 claims.. Monster T not recommended.)

I already have both - I guess I will measure away! Breaking down the bike for end of season rebuild/cleanup and get it ready for winter duty so the forks will be off and side by side! Im going to run the 66 for the winter and feel it out!

 

[weedkilla]

I'm also racing a short shocked VP with 40's on the front - and I would never go back to a longer shock! It does pedal worse, the suspension action is not significantly different, and it corners as well as most new dh bikes. I would choose it over a Glory (haven't ridden the new one) for instance.
Its never going to have the outright speed of the current generation of super low - super slack bikes but is also a lot more forgiving in the hands of a cack handed rider and doesn't tend to make me pay too badly for mistakes.
I tried a few shocks before ending up with a custom swinger with a shim stack - what AVY would do to your 5th but with my tuning ability rather than AVY's (mine is significantly less!) I think a bit more progressiveness from the shock would be nice and I would have an RC4 if money was not the problem, however marzocchi, Vivid (C tune) and dhx all seem to work well and are readily available second hand.
I used to run my VP with 06 888's with aftermarket flat crowns and got the A-C around 570mm, 170mm 66 is listed as 555mm. 07 888 is listed as 584mm - but mine was certainly lower without hitting anything ( more than 200mm clearance extended)
Hope some of this helps.