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WARNING, Randall Scott is HORRIBLE!!!!!!

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KYMtnBkr

Chimp
Mar 18, 2007
4
0
I needed to upgrade my 130mm fork to a 150mm fork and had decided on the Marzocchi All Mountain 2. I searched the web and found the best price at Randall Scott's web site. The fork was listed as a Marzocchi All Mountain 2 130mm - 150mm adjustable travel with ETA + TAS. I had never ordered anything from Randall Scott but had seen there advertisements on Mtbr.com on many occasions and mistakenly assumed that they were a reputable online retailer that I could trust. Boy was I WRONG!

The fork arrived and I opened the box to inspect the contents. Everything looked great and off the fork went to my shop for installation on my bike. I get my bike back and the first thing that I notice is that there is no TAS adjustment. TAS is the function that allows me to change my travel between 150mm and 130mm. This is a pretty big deal because sometimes I ride less technical trails and would prefer a more aggressive head angle for just hammering along. And speaking of head angles this 150mm fork hasn't seemed to of changed my head angle at all. So I measure the fork and low and behold it only has 130mm of travel. I think this really sucks, I'm going to have to send this fork back for the one I ordered. Oh well honest mistakes happen and it's really no big deal in the whole scheme of things right? WRONG AGAIN!

I called Randall Scott and explained that I had received the wrong fork and was told to send it back for a refund or an exchange just as I would expect from any honest retailer. Then I said something about removing the fork from my bike and everything changed. The guy explained to me that it is my responsibility to check the functions of my fork before installing it on my bike and that they could not take it back. What a joke. I was told that the reason they listed the fork as having the TAS function was because Marzocchi told them it did. He said I should of confirmed what features the fork has with Marzocchi's web site and that Randall Scott is not responsible for the information on their web site because it was Marzocchi's fault. I was told to live with it. I explained that I planned to post this horror story on the web for all to review and he smugly told me that he would start writing his rebuttal immediately.

I promptly saved their web page advertising my fork as a 130mm - 150mm with TAS adjustable travel. Sure enough within 15 minutes an accurate description of my fork was posted on their web site. I am sure that they plan to deny that the bogus page ever existed. So, if anyone doubts the truthfulness of this posting please email me at rickdk@gmail.com and I will forward the web page to you.

One more thing, check out Randall Scott's price guarantee. It's an absolute joke. They will match their competitors price but, "This does not include items that are on sale, clearance, closeouts, or items that are a package deal of combo parts." And, "All price guarantees excludes orders placed with promotional codes." I am sure that once they catch wind of this posting that will change as well. But check it out for now at their web site. http://www.rscycle.com/s.nl/it.I/id.7/.f
 

loco-gringo

Crusading Clamp Monkey
Sep 27, 2006
8,887
5
Deep in the heart of TEXAS
While I agree that false copy on sites is crap, installing the fork made it your problem. If it is in the original fork box, as most Marz forks are, it likely said 130mm travel. I pride myself on good service, but if you buy a fork from my shop and install it and decide it's wrong later, well, there's not much I can do about that. Perhaps you should learn more about forks or head to the LBS for help in the future. Them not taking THIS particular fork back does not make them bad.

BTW - not many folks price match closeouts, out of stock items, or deep discounts. Price matching is the discretion of the retailer.
 
Oct 24, 2006
170
0
Yup, you're making a mountain out of a mole hill. Technically it WAS your responsibility to make sure the fork was what they claimed it to be. Dealers are not responsible for knowing everything about every product, and while the TAS adjustment may have been the main selling point for you, it may not have been for others. I am sure you are not the first person to buy this type of fork.

So, you decided on the fork, searched for good prices, but didn't research the fork itself? MTBR.com could have given you a review that would have most likely tipped you off to it, or even the Marz website itself.

I normally wouldn't have replied to a bash like this, but since this was so urgent that you had to make a username and post, I needed to respond. My experience with Randall Scott Company was excellent. I ordered my 7.3 from them, and it was shipped fast. Got to me in six days from the west coast, I'm in Maine. Got everything set up, and realized that the brake mount was a Boxxer adapter, and not a Marz, which the fork needed. I called up RSC, and they said no prob. 15% of the bikes came direct from Ironhorse with the wrong mounts. Instead of searching through every single box to find out which ones had them, they just sent them out. The guy on the phone was very nice, told me how he knew what I felt like and how much he would want to ride if placed in the same situation. They sent me a Marz mount at no charge, not even shipping, and let me keep the Boxxer mount too.

My friend also bought a bike from RSC, and his order went really smooth as well. Just take responsility for it; keep it or put it up on the classifieds. RSC can't be stuck with a used fork because someone didn't research a part before hitting the order button... They were all ready to take it back until they found out it was on your bike. You can't eat half a sandwhich then return it because it was supposed to have mustard on it...
 

mtbtom

Chimp
Aug 8, 2002
16
0
UK
Technically it WAS your responsibility to make sure the fork was what they claimed it to be. Dealers are not responsible for knowing everything about every product, and while the TAS adjustment may have been the main selling point for you, it may not have been for others. I am sure you are not the first person to buy this type of fork.
HUH ? Dealers should absolutely know what they are selling and they need to accurately describe what they are selling too.

If you feel like you're getting ripped off don't waste your time complaining about it on the internet - dispute the charge with your credit card company.
 

BMXman

I wish I was Canadian
Sep 8, 2001
13,854
0
Victoria, BC
They were all ready to take it back until they found out it was on your bike. You can't eat half a sandwhich then return it because it was supposed to have mustard on it...

I totally agree....You should have inspected the fork thoroughly before you sent it off to your LBS...you made a mistake, but it's not all bad as long as you don't ride the fork and haven't cut the steertube....you could probably sell it for close to what you paid and make your loss minimal. Live and learn...D
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,412
0
SF
The Marzocchi All-Mountain series are some of the most confusing forks to buy. They have All-Mountain series, as well as the AM series, which are 2 totally different lines of forks (I believe the AM are made in Taiwan, whereas the All-Mountain are Italian).

The All-Mountain forks have a plethora of features, some of them contradictory (like ETA (drops travel to 30mm) and TAS (lowers travel 20mm)), and when I bought a Marathon XC, which has ETA/TAS/TST, I had to go over twice what these features were and what exactly did they do.

On that note, I don't believe Randall Scott was ethically wrong by not taking a return on an installed fork, even one with the wrong features listed. I don't believe RS tried to deceive anyone with an incorrect listing, especially since Marzocchi has it correctly listed on their site.

However, it is horrible business to list the incorrect features and then not take a return. Frankly, welcome to the world of low-end mail order. Do you think your local shop where you had the fork installed would have allowed this mistake to happen, or would not have corrected it for you? That's the difference between some low-paid, highly dedicated bikers and a large mail order house.
 

Echo

crooked smile
Jul 10, 2002
11,818
1
Slacking at work
You can't expect them to take the fork back after you cut the steerer tube. Sure it sucks that their website was wrong, and it would be nice if they had made some sort of attempt to make you a satisfied customer.

But I bet if you read their return policy, it says returned merchandise must be in new, sellable condition with all packaging and manuals. That's standard policy across almost every business in existence, not just the bike industry. They aren't gonna eat the cost of a fork just because you didn't research what you were buying.
 

Echo

crooked smile
Jul 10, 2002
11,818
1
Slacking at work
I'm sorry, where does it say anything about cutting the steerer tube?

I think it's lame that they won't even make an effort to satisfy you when their website was wrong. Chalk it up to another place I'd never do business with. :rolleyes:
Have you ever managed to install a fork without cutting the steerer? Or even scratching the steerer when installing the crown race? I agree that they should have tried to do something but as a business they have to draw the line somewhere. Once it's been installed they can't sell it as new. Plus as soon as the guy started threatening a web jihad, he lost any chance of a civil resolution.

Quotes from their website regarding returns:

The product must be unused/uninstalled, complete and in its original packaging.

Installed parts will not be accepted for return/exchange (unless it is a warranty issue).

If you receive your order and determine that the item you were shipped does not match the description and/or the picture of the item on our website, please contact us immediately and we will resolve the situation in a timely fashion and reimburse return ground freight. Randall Scott Cycle Company is not responsible for typographical or photographic errors on our website.
 

Transcend

My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
18,045
0
Towing the party line.
Completely agreed with echo. It is up to the customer who paid money, to make sure that he gets what he ordered BEFORE installing it. I am pretty sure the retailer would have taken it back before then.

Acting like a spoiled brat and threatening to start a jihad, as echo put it, would have sealed the deal for me. You catch more flies with honey...

BV: I have never seen anyone get a fork installed without marring the steertube from either frame installation or the race installation. Pounding on a race leaves marks.
 

Echo

crooked smile
Jul 10, 2002
11,818
1
Slacking at work
Also, consider this quote:
I needed to upgrade my 130mm fork to a 150mm fork and had decided on the Marzocchi All Mountain 2. I searched the web and found the best price at Randall Scott's web site.
Generally, by the time I've determined the exact model I want and I've started looking around the net for the best price, I know the specs of what I'm buying.
 

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
21,646
397
NC
Wow... I completely missed that, I feel like a bonehead.

I thought the fork he got was different from the fork he should have received (i.e. the fork he ordered was 150mm but he received a 130mm fork). Now that I re-read it I understand that he received the correct fork and it was an incorrect spec listing on the website.

Sorry, no sympathy for boneheaded mistakes like not double checking specs on items you buy. Previous posts retracted. ALWAYS make sure of the specs of an item you buy before you plunk down the money for it.

A guy on DPReview bought an expensive camera based on the item's review listing a particular kind of remote control as an accessory. When he got it, he found out the remote control wasn't supported - of course, the manufacturer's website listed it correctly as being incompatible, but he blindly bought it without checking. Bzzt, penalty for laziness, play results in a monetary loss.
 

Echo

crooked smile
Jul 10, 2002
11,818
1
Slacking at work
I thought the fork he got was different from the fork he should have received (i.e. the fork he ordered was 150mm but he received a 130mm fork).
Even in that situation it's a WTF. I know if I ordered a Fox TALAS RLC from a website, and they sent me a Vanilla R, I would figure it out before I installed it.
 

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
21,646
397
NC
I have less sympathy for a company making a shipment error than a copy-and-paste error, though.

Hell, my Sherman Firefly doesn't even have any markings on it. It says Manitou on one side and Sherman on the other and if they had sent me a Breakout, there would have been no identifying characteristic other than the amount of travel.

Fraser: maybe I'm too anal - I don't ding up my steerers noticeably when I install a fork. Race doesn't get pounded on until it's slid all the way to the bottom and even then it's with a plastic tube. Top caps are either plastic or have a little plastic/rubber ring around the inside, why should they scratch it?
 

Wumpus

makes avatars better
Dec 25, 2003
8,164
154
Six Shooter Junction
For 2007 it looks like Marzocchi doesn't list TAS as a feature even though they have travel adjustment, so I'm guessing he was shopping for a 2006 All Mountain 2 which came three different ways(p13 of the pdf;p124 of manual).



BV -- There are still going to be some scuffs where the race seats, and what would you think if you got a fork that already had a starnut pounded in it?

Echo -- I have quite a few forks that I have installed without having to cut the steerer and definitely before I ride it for a while to see where I want the bars.
 

oldskoolbiker

Monkey
Aug 19, 2005
357
0
Alexandria, VA
I just look on the Randal Scott site and none of the All Mountain 2 forks they have on their site list TAS as an option.

Poor guy should have verified what he got is what he wanted.

Regarding copy on online sites, I think many of the products the copy and photos are obtained from the distributor.

I had one similar case where I ordered some Atomlab pedals from Speedgoat. The website showed the picture and copy as the newly designed 2006 model.

When I got the pedals there were the old style, which were on sale everywhere for 1/2 of what I paid for the "newly designed" 2006. I e-mailed the manufacturer and asked advice. They responded that the new design will actually be released in March as a 2007 model and that I should return the pedals. I contacted speedgoat and told them they sent me the older style which wasn't the same as the website. The refused to do a price match to the lower cost, but they paid for the return shipping and refunded my money.
 

Wumpus

makes avatars better
Dec 25, 2003
8,164
154
Six Shooter Junction
I just look on the Randal Scott site and none of the All Mountain 2 forks they have on their site list TAS as an option.
I know it is alot to read, but...

I promptly saved their web page advertising my fork as a 130mm - 150mm with TAS adjustable travel. Sure enough within 15 minutes an accurate description of my fork was posted on their web site. I am sure that they plan to deny that the bogus page ever existed. So, if anyone doubts the truthfulness of this posting please email me at rickdk@gmail.com and I will forward the web page to you.
The whole issue(and the lesson to be learned) is that they don't want to take back a fork(or any part) that has already been installed.
 
Oct 24, 2006
170
0
Yeah- when I wrote my reply I was kind of rambling, definetly the company's fault for having wrong information, but what I meant was that they would have taken it back if this was the case (and it was) but then he rode it. So that wasn't the case.

I'm sure the guy at RSC didn't care because he knew everyone would side with him (if the story was told truthfully, and it had to be)
 

mtbtom

Chimp
Aug 8, 2002
16
0
UK
They both screwed up. The dealer advertised and sent him the wrong item. In his haste to get it installed he didn't verify that it was what he thought it was.

The dealer is not owning up to their side of the screw up and they're leaving the guy out to dry. Which is why he should dispute the charge with the credit card company. There's a good chance that the CC company will get him a refund or negotiate with the dealer to own up to their side of the screw up and cut him a deal.
 

Echo

crooked smile
Jul 10, 2002
11,818
1
Slacking at work
I doubt he will ever come back here and see this thread anyway. He's on an e-jihad, he only registered to post this. He probably posted it so many places that he doesn't even remember them all.

And as far as disputing the charge, I guess he could go ahead and try, but all RSC has to do is show them their return policy which is clearly stated on their website.

And I will reiterate that he most likely would have gotten much better treatment if he hadn't threatened (and carried out) the e-jihad.
 

Wumpus

makes avatars better
Dec 25, 2003
8,164
154
Six Shooter Junction
The army of one wins. I hope he has the decency to go update all those threads.

Randall Scott Company said:
Fellow Forum Members, (friends, enemies, and everyone in between),

First and foremost I appreciate everyone’s input. Our customers are our top priority and my team and I are here to make sure that you are satisfied. We process thousands of transactions and receive very positive feedback from customers. The company is growing in leaps and bounds online and we are now expanding our reach to local customers with our first concept showroom in Boulder, Colorado. It’s going to be sweet!. We will have another channel for our customers to engage in the outdoor lifestyle in a fun and exciting new way.

It is sometimes the case where our current policies need to change or be modified within reason to reflect the feedback of our customers. In this specific case, nothing was covered up and there is not a conspiracy. Like you, we are hard working outdoor enthusiasts that take pride in what we do. We are not a big corporate company trying to take advantage of our customers. Our website was updated so that this same situation would not occur again with another customer. Our customer service team is always hard at work discussing our current policies to see where improvements are needed.

Both Marzocchi and Randall Scott Company are able to offer kymtnbkr the Marzocchi All Mountain 1 fork that has the features he was looking for at no cost. kymtnbkr please contact us if this is acceptable we will work out the exchange details in a timely manner so you can get out and ride.

Sincerely,

Randall Scott
Founder
Randall Scott Company

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=2853563#post2853563
 

trailhacker

Turbo Monkey
Jan 6, 2003
1,233
0
In the hills around Seattle
I don't think that they needed to do what they did but it is good to see that they did.
If I was in the same situation, I would have been happy if they sold me the right fork for what ever I was able to sell the other fork for. I would guess about 60% of what I paid. Even if I would have had to shell out a little money I think it would have been a satisfactory resolution considering the fork was mounted (and I assume ridden a little bit) before the issue was brought up.

Seems they went above what would have been fair and are making this right.
The only question is whether they would have done this if he hadn't went all post crazy about it?
 

Echo

crooked smile
Jul 10, 2002
11,818
1
Slacking at work
Ha, I just read through that thread on emptybeer. I'm thankful that we have only one syadasti here... you know, the type who will go to the ends of the earth arguing a moot point just so the world knows he was right. There are about 6 people like that in that thread alone.

And interestingly, the dude who started all this crap hasn't said so much as a word, even after being offered the world for free.
 

loco-gringo

Crusading Clamp Monkey
Sep 27, 2006
8,887
5
Deep in the heart of TEXAS
Props to both Randall Scott and Marzocchi, as it looks as if they are willing to help with the error provided in the description. It looks that way anyhow.

I am dumbfounded on what people feel they are entitled to. mtbtom is on my list of don't sell tos now. :think:
 

mtbtom

Chimp
Aug 8, 2002
16
0
UK
Hey I thought I deleted that post ! (no need to escalate this)

For those keeping track at home I was wondering if there was a reason I should give a sh!t about being on boogey's "do not sell list". :nopity:
 

Heath Sherratt

Turbo Monkey
Jun 17, 2004
1,875
0
In a healthy tension
The Marzocchi All-Mountain series are some of the most confusing forks to buy. They have All-Mountain series, as well as the AM series, which are 2 totally different lines of forks (I believe the AM are made in Taiwan, whereas the All-Mountain are Italian).

The All-Mountain forks have a plethora of features, some of them contradictory (like ETA (drops travel to 30mm) and TAS (lowers travel 20mm)), and when I bought a Marathon XC, which has ETA/TAS/TST, I had to go over twice what these features were and what exactly did they do.

On that note, I don't believe Randall Scott was ethically wrong by not taking a return on an installed fork, even one with the wrong features listed. I don't believe RS tried to deceive anyone with an incorrect listing, especially since Marzocchi has it correctly listed on their site.

However, it is horrible business to list the incorrect features and then not take a return. Frankly, welcome to the world of low-end mail order. Do you think your local shop where you had the fork installed would have allowed this mistake to happen, or would not have corrected it for you? That's the difference between some low-paid, highly dedicated bikers and a large mail order house.
Amen brutha :clapping:
 

erikkellison

Monkey
Jan 28, 2004
918
0
Denver, CO
I think RS was the party at fault. The customer paid for the fork in the description, and didn't get it. It is their fault for advertising something that they didn't ship. They are responsible for the descriptions of what they list and sell, even if their legal disclaimers plead innocence. i.e. If I sell an item on ebaY and list the description incorrectly, even if the manufacturer is the one who provided me with the details, I am still immediately responsible. I may have a claim with the manufacturer for the discrepancy, but I am responsible to my buyer for the error.
I think RS did the right thing in working with the OP to get the man the fork he paid for. It is, after all, what he paid for. He didn't pay for just the fork with that name, he paid for the fork that fit that description, and was legally entitled to receive it. It's the seller's responsiblity if they cannot provide what the buyer paid for.
Sure, the plot thickens when the buyer installed the item w/o verification of the features, but in his case and moreso in others, he sort of had to mount the fork to find out that it was not what he paid for. There are other items where you would have to use the item to find out if it was what you paid for (fireworks come to mind, though native american can't be held as responsible as online retailers of bike parts, etc.), and the buyer shouldn't be punished just because he assumed that the retailer was correct. He should be safe in this assumption, and the retailer should take responsibility, as they have, and get the customer what he paid for, or make him happy in an equivalent way. Good to see it worked out as it should.
All of you who think that a sale is closed and done once you've shipped the product and gotten paid obviously haven't working in retail of any kind. Customer service is such a huge part of a transaction, and any retailer who pulls an illegal misrepresentation like that will be answerable to the BBB, and ultimately be out of business. I'm sure RS knows this, as does Marzocchi, which is why they did the right thing to hook the OP up with what he paid for.
Wow, that was long-winded. Just felt that some o' ya needed some facts (like those of you who thought that by installing the fork he sealed his fate in the deal - what garbage! We're not at a street market in India here, there are laws governing business and sales such as this).
 
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