[ire]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24641626/

COLUMBUS, Ohio - Republican presidential candidate John McCain said on Thursday he believes the Iraq war can be won within four years, leaving a functioning democracy there and allowing most U.S. troops to come home.

McCain conceded he cannot make the changes alone, but said he wanted to outline a specific governing style to show the accomplishments it can achieve.

"I'm not interested in partisanship that serves no other purpose than to gain a temporary advantage over our opponents. This mindless, paralyzing rancor must come to an end. We belong to different parties, not different countries," McCain said in remarks prepared for delivery in the capital city of Ohio, a general election battleground. "There is a time to campaign, and a time to govern. If I'm elected president, the era of the permanent campaign will end; the era of problem solving will begin."

The Arizona senator's Democratic rivals for the White House, Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, are running on a pledge to begin bringing U.S. troops home right away and have linked McCain's policies on the unpopular war to those of President George W. Bush.

100 years in Iraq
The Democratic candidates also charge McCain wants to keep the United States entangled in Iraq for 100 years.

McCain says any decades-long presence of U.S. troops would be aimed at maintaining stability in the region and has likened it to the U.S. military presence in Japan, South Korea and Germany.

McCain wrote he had thought Obama's interest in ethics legislation "was genuine and admirable," before adding: "Thank you for disabusing me of such notions." He accused Obama of "partisan posturing."

While calling for Congress to drop mindless partisanship, McCain also chided the media — with whom he has enjoyed a generally positive relationship — for fueling contention with its campaign coverage.

"Campaigns and the media collaborated as architects of the modern presidential campaign, and we deserve equal blame for the regret we feel from time to time over its less-than-inspirational features," he said.

Looking head
McCain, running in the November election to succeed Bush in 2009, described a scenario he thought he could achieve within his first four-year term.

"By January 2013, America has welcomed home most of the servicemen and women who have sacrificed terribly so that America might be secure in her freedom," McCain said in prepared remarks he was to deliver in Columbus, Ohio.

"The Iraq war has been won. Iraq is a functioning democracy, although still suffering from the lingering effects of decades of tyranny and centuries of sectarian tension. Violence still occurs, but it is spasmodic and much reduced," McCain said.

The Republican senator said that although the United States would still have a troop presence in Iraq, those soldiers would not need a "direct combat role" because Iraqi forces would be capable of providing order.

Bin Laden, the economy
McCain also predicted that al Qaida leader Osama bin Laden would be captured or killed within four years and the militant group's presence in Afghanistan would be reduced to remnants.

On the economy, he promised taxpayers the option of filing under a simpler system than the current multilayered code and said he would overhaul government spending practices that have led to "extravagantly wasted money."

Ohio is expected to be a hard-fought state in the general election and McCain's visit there came as Obama, the Democratic front-runner, got another boost by gaining the endorsement of former Democratic presidential candidate John Edwards.

Holding an almost unassailable lead over Clinton in delegates who will pick their party's nominee, Obama has increasingly turned his attention toward McCain.

On Iraq, McCain has argued the Democratic candidates are promising a reckless pullout, a pledge he says they would never be able to keep once they face the realities.

The unpopularity of Bush and the Iraq war has taken a toll on the political fortunes of Republicans.

One more time
In outlining potential achievements of a first term, the 71-year-old McCain implicitly was suggesting he would seek a second term, an attempt to mute suggestions he would serve only four years after being the oldest president ever to take office for a first term.

In particular, he sees a world in which:

- The Taliban threat in Afghanistan has been greatly reduced.

- A "League of Democracies" has supplanted a failed United Nations to apply sanctions to the Sudanese government and halt genocide in Darfur.

- The United States has had "several years of robust growth," appropriations bills free of lawmakers' pet projects known as "earmarks," public education improved by charter schools, health care improved by expansion of the private market and an energy crisis stemmed through the start of construction on 20 new nuclear reactors.

- Democrats are asked to serve in his administration, he holds weekly news conferences and, like the British prime minister, answers questions publicly from lawmakers.

McCain also pledges to halt a Bush administration practice of enacting laws with accompanying signing statements that exempt the president from having to enforce parts he finds objectionable.

"I will respect the responsibilities the Constitution and the American people have granted Congress," the senator said, "and will, as I often have in the past, work with anyone of either party to get things done for our country."

 

[dante]

I wonder, if GWB had stood up 5 years ago on the eve of the invasion and said "Great news, this war will only take a decade, and only cost 1 trillion dollars!!" what exactly would have happened?

I also like the fact that this Jan 1 2013 is actually almost 5 years from now, and conveniently *after* the 2012 election...

 

[ire]

I wonder, if GWB had stood up 5 years ago on the eve of the invasion and said "Great news, this war will only take a decade, and only cost 1 trillion dollars!!" what exactly would have happened?

I also like the fact that this Jan 1 2013 is actually almost 5 years from now, and conveniently *after* the 2012 election...

The one thing I have to say, is that I like that McCain talks about working with Dems and I also like the idea of eliminating the ear marks.....I just can't get behind the idea of endless war

 

[LordOpie]

Really? He honestly thinks it'll take four more years of dead american soldiers and of insanely increasing debt?

I appreciate his honesty, but if his plan needs four more years, well, props to him for having a plan -- and I believe he can get it done -- but that's way too much of a cost.

If that's the best America can do, we need to do an immediate and safe withdrawl of all American troops and interests.

I can't believe anyone would support five more years of this.

 

[eaterofdog]

Bush Two, Electric Boogaloo

 

[BurlyShirley]

Really? He honestly thinks it'll take four more years of dead american soldiers and of insanely increasing debt?

I appreciate his honesty, but if his plan needs four more years, well, props to him for having a plan -- and I believe he can get it done -- but that's way too much of a cost.

If that's the best America can do, we need to do an immediate and safe withdrawl of all American troops and interests.

I can't believe anyone would support five more years of this.

Dude, we broke it. We're morally obligated to fix it. Period.
I hate it as much as anyone, but you can't leave those people in sh*t.

 

[LordOpie]

Dude, we broke it. We're morally obligated to fix it. Period.
I hate it as much as anyone, but you can't leave those people in sh*t.

I agree with you in principle only. Four more years of the same would put the US in a hole we might not be able to dig out of.

If I was an incoming PotUS, I'd apologize to the world and ask for their help. If they said no, I'd pull out without looking back. If they said yes, I'd still pull most troops and only support the lead of whomever was interested in fixing the mess.

 

[ire]

I agree with you in principle only. Four more years of the same would put the US in a hole we might not be able to dig out of.

If I was an incoming PotUS, I'd apologize to the world and ask for their help. If they said no, I'd pull out without looking back. If they said yes, I'd still pull most troops and only support the lead of whomever was interested in fixing the mess.

You would think that the neighboring countries would step up, having another Somalia next door isn't good for any of them

 

[LordOpie]

You would think that the neighboring countries would step up, having another Somalia next door isn't good for any of them

No, I expect them to continue to not care and continue to use poor Arabs as pawns as they do in other parts of the M.E.

 

[stevew]

You would think that the neighboring countries would step up

Palestinians have been wondering this also.

 

[BurlyShirley]

I agree with you in principle only.

What good are principles if you recognize them, but dont abide by them, or abandon them at the first hardship?

I could argue this country's problems could all be traced back to abandonment of good sense/moral obligation.

 

[SK6]

I like beer. Beer is good. Beer can save the world.

 

[LordOpie]

What good are principles if you recognize them, but dont abide by them, or abandon them at the first hardship?

I could argue this country's problems could all be traced back to abandonment of good sense/moral obligation.

You believe that were currently at the first stage of hardship?

 

[BurlyShirley]

You believe that were currently at the first stage of hardship?

What sacrifices have you made for this war, personally?

I haven't made one.

 

[sanjuro]

I would like to see a solid plan. While I think we should get out of Iraq, I rather see a permanent solution than buh-bye.

 

[Jim Mac]

I like beer. Beer is good. Beer can save the world.

We could do a massive airlift with all that left over Billy Beer from the Carter era!

 

[LordOpie]

What sacrifices have you made for this war, personally?

I haven't made one.

wtf are you talking about?

Look, if there is no end in sight, why keep throwing away the lives of american soldiers and put this country further in debt?

Does it suck for Iraq, sure.

But what if their civil war end faster with less bloodshed than the continued fock up that we're doing?

 

[BurlyShirley]

wtf are you talking about?

Look, if there is no end in sight, why keep throwing away the lives of american soldiers and put this country further in debt?

Does it suck for Iraq, sure.

But what if their civil war end faster with less bloodshed than the continued fock up that we're doing?

I thought the article was about an end in sight and even gave a timeframe for it. Even if there isn't one, we need to try and do whatever is necessary to bring one about. This isn't just about "more of the same" and people keep dying and we keep wasting money... it's about being smart with an improved strategy (which hopefully will be multinational) and doing the right thing, which is fixing the mess we created as best we can.

"does it suck for Iraq, sure" is not an acceptable resolution IMO.

Nothing but a stable gov't, capable of defending itself is acceptable.

 

[AngryMetalsmith]

Not to discount the loss of American troops, but the amount of Iraqi deaths is staggering.

The number is seldom mentioned in main stream media.

The last figure that I saw was somewhere in the neighborhood of 655,000.

Explain to me how five more years of this is acceptable?

 

[ire]

Nothing but a stable gov't, capable of defending itself is acceptable.

There are a lot of countries in the world that cannot even manage this......it will be a long time before Iraq can. As for sacrifice, we have all made a sacrifice in the form of future debt obligation we have to repay....the hardship of this war will fall on everyone's shoulders

 

[BurlyShirley]

Not to discount the loss of American troops, but the amount of Iraqi deaths is staggering.

The number is seldom mentioned in main stream media.

The last figure that I saw was somewhere in the neighborhood of 655,000.

Explain to me how five more years of this is acceptable?

I suppose you think the #'s of Iraqi deaths will go down if US forces pull out and warring factions begin to freely vie for ultimate legitimacy without oversight? You think US forces are doing most of the killing of civilians even now?
The way I understand it, our presence is reigning in the chaos quite a bit.

 

[LordOpie]

I thought the article was about an end in sight and even gave a timeframe for it. Even if there isn't one, we need to try and do whatever is necessary to bring one about. This isn't just about "more of the same" and people keep dying and we keep wasting money... it's about being smart with an improved strategy (which hopefully will be multinational) and doing the right thing, which is fixing the mess we created as best we can.

"does it suck for Iraq, sure" is not an acceptable resolution IMO.

Nothing but a stable gov't, capable of defending itself is acceptable.

Then we'll have to agree to disagree as I don't believe they have a new strategy.

More importantly, if McCain does have a strategy that would work, why isn't it being implemented now?

Also, please don't pull stuff out of context... "does it suck for Iraq, sure" as you've intentionally omitted the next part, which was... what if the US cannot do the job? What if the best case for Iraq is to stop interferring and let the civil war happen? What if they can do it better than we can we less loss of life?

 

[LordOpie]

Also, why can't the US tell the world we made a mistake and we'd like their help?

 

[BurlyShirley]

There are a lot of countries in the world that cannot even manage this......it will be a long time before Iraq can. As for sacrifice, we have all made a sacrifice in the form of future debt obligation we have to repay....the hardship of this war will fall on everyone's shoulders

And how many of these countries are having their gov't rebuilt by the US and their military trained by ours? And how many of them were functioning before we came in and destroyed it?

 

[stevew]

Not to discount the loss of American troops, but the amount of Iraqi deaths is staggering.

The number is seldom mentioned in main stream media.

The last figure that I saw was somewhere in the neighborhood of 655,000.

Explain to me how five more years of this is acceptable?

655,000 caucasians would get noticed.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Then we'll have to agree to disagree as I don't believe they have a new strategy.

More importantly, if McCain does have a strategy that would work, why isn't it being implemented now?

Also, please don't pull stuff out of context... "does it suck for Iraq, sure" as you've intentionally omitted the next part, which was... what if the US cannot do the job? What if the best case for Iraq is to stop interferring and let the civil war happen? What if they can do it better than we can we less loss of life?

What if, what if, what if...

We owe it our absolute best effort toward the best possible outcome until all reasonable options are exhausted. Nothing was taken out of context either, BTW, just highlighted.

Also I agree we should admit a mistake and ask for help.

 

[LordOpie]

655,000 caucasians would get noticed.

The US Military Decision Makers... we are the Cyclones, Tsunamis, Earthquakes, and Hurricanes of your worst nightmare.

 

[ire]

And how many of these countries are having their gov't rebuilt by the US and their military trained by ours? And how many of them were functioning before we came in and destroyed it?

Example: Lebanon

 

[AngryMetalsmith]

The problems of the Middle East are older than our own country.

Ultimately we will have little impact on them.

We should do what Shrub's dad should have done and pull out.

 

[LordOpie]

What if, what if, what if...

We owe it our absolute best effort toward the best possible outcome until all reasonable options are exhausted. Nothing was taken out of context either, BTW, just highlighted.

We can disagree, but my position is... all reasonable options were exhausted.

 

[jimmydean]

Also I agree we should admit a mistake and ask for help.

We asked for help going in and got none. That SHOULD have been a sign that this was a bad idea.

Dude, I understand where you come from. But the fact is, WE can't fix this. We are trying to force American politics on a country that clearly doesn't want it. Further forcing will not change that fact.

That's like telling someone with an eating disorder to just eat a hamburger, when they are clearly vegan.

 

[LordOpie]

That's like telling someone with an eating disorder to just eat a hamburger, when they are clearly vegan.

Or asking them to get vaccinated.

 

[AngryMetalsmith]

We asked for help going in and got none. That SHOULD have been a sign that this was a bad idea.

Dude, I understand where you come from. But the fact is, WE can't fix this. We are trying to force American politics on a country that clearly doesn't want it. Further forcing will not change that fact.

That's like telling someone with an eating disorder to just eat a hamburger, when they are clearly vegan.

Exactly
+ rep

 

[$tinkle]

Dude, I understand where you come from. But the fact is, WE can't fix this. We are trying to force American politics on a country that clearly doesn't want it. Further forcing will not change that fact.

i think we've slowly been wising up to this, and nytimes reported 3 days ago on some positive results

some of the best yankee ingenuity is knowing when to let someone else drive.

 

[N8 v2.0]

whatever your personal opinion, the fact is neither of the 3 presidential canidates can or will pull us out of Iraq no matter what they are promising now.

Just isnt gonna happen.

 

[ire]

i think we've slowly been wising up to this, and nytimes reported 3 days ago on some positive results

some of the best yankee ingenuity is knowing when to let someone else drive.

To me, this underscores our problems there:

The offensive, grandly named Charge of the Knights, was widely criticized for being poorly planned and ill-coordinated. It was derided as the Charge of the Mice by followers of the radical Shiite cleric Moktada al-Sadr after more than 1,000 soldiers deserted in the face of heavy resistance from his Mahdi Army and other extremist groups. The fierce early clashes halted only after a pro-government delegation went to Iran and struck a deal with the Sadrists.

We've been trying to win on the battlefield, when really, the only way to stop the violence is through negotiations.....at least we've started doing more of that since General Petraeus came to be in charge

 

[jimmydean]

some of the best yankee ingenuity is knowing when to let someone else drive.

That's the bitch of the whole mess. We know what's best for OUR interests, but to say we went in there to "spread freedom" without an oil-based agenda is the largest crock of sh!t.

To say we can "fix what we broke" is also a crock. The fact is, the administration only cares about the oil and they will never own up to it.

 

[AngryMetalsmith]

i think we've slowly been wising up to this, and nytimes reported 3 days ago on some positive results

some of the best yankee ingenuity is knowing when to let someone else drive.

... then Shrub is drunk at the wheel...

 

[jimmydean]

whatever your personal opinion, the fact is neither of the 3 presidential canidates can or will pull us out of Iraq no matter what they are promising now.

Just isnt gonna happen.

So what will happen? We stay there until we are fresh out of bodies? We aren't going to fix anything, we aren't going to win anything.

Did we win Vietnam? My bet is the results are more than likely the same here.

 

[H8R]

I hate it as much as anyone, but you can't leave those people in sh*t.

Exactly. Either we stay and fix it or exterminate them completely.