we dont need no stinkin teachers
- Thread starter IH8Rice
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- mmike=lousy scab
Well we need that money to blow up little brown kids. It's only reasonable.
$40mil wont buy too much killin of brown people
but it'll still buy enough for the republicans
Did you read the basis for why they did this? They sent pink slips to ALL teachers so that at the end of the school year they can let go of select individuals.
If that's what your contracts with the unions require to fire someone, that's how you do it without alerting individual employees of their pending doom.
If that's what your contracts with the unions require to fire someone, that's how you do it without alerting individual employees of their pending doom.
It is just a tactic.
The problem for unions is that they are used to impotent threats. This time it is serious and if Providence or Detroit thinks there will be a massive protest for their jobs, they better think again.
Teachers don't get paid enough. But one thing they did have was relative job security. So now they still get paid **** and basically get the flick when a politician needs a scapegoat. Where do I sign up?
Hell, BurleyShirley is still signing up...
I didn't know there were that many people there to begin with.
RI is declaring war on someone??
Maybe.Hell, BurleyShirley is still signing up...
Although it's looking more and more like TN is going the way of Wisc. and Providence with regard to how it treats its educators. That said, given my skillset and the fact that Repubs now hold both houses and the governorship in TN, I doubt I'll have much choice if I continue living here. I expect most state environmental, science, conservation funding to be slashed and for teachers to take it in the cornport too.
I can always join the darkside and work for some environmental firm and make way more money I guess.
They get too much healthcare too. Better take that from them as well as their retirement. Its not like they don't make enough to save for retirement themselves AND pay for the healthcare increases.
Also, take away their right to unionize, but give corporations the right to finance elections. Also, give the CEOs a tax break too. They deserve it.
Well, I for one look forward to our return to the dark ages where education is looked upon as proof of ones connection to the devil. Its about time we got back to the good old days of viewing science as witch craft and doing only what our leaders based in the Vatican tell us to think and do. We can keep our selves warm around the pyres of burning books/art and stave off hunger by feasting on the flesh of the intellectual elite. 
I'm the first to suggest raising of teacher pay and benefit universally in the US. I am all for the right to collectively bargain. But if you use that right to strongarm your way to idiotic policies, don't expect my sympathy. I wholeheartedly support Providence in this. The minute the union imposed seniority as the only criteria for teacher selection and layoff (as it is, almost universally in this country), they rang their own death knell. The public won't support a system that imposes bad teachers on their children.
Because the union won't budge on seniority, this is the best way for the school district to actually keep the good ones and shed the bad ones. Bravo.
Because the union won't budge on seniority, this is the best way for the school district to actually keep the good ones and shed the bad ones. Bravo.
I dunno.......you'd hope so...but there's a lot of bloated union workers out there who specialize in cutting off their noses to spite their faces........
Indeed......as a contractor. The SPEEA strike was the most lucrative 40 days of my life. How I cherished driving across the picket line day after day......You worked for the lazy B once upon a time right?
Uh huh....
Well, I for one look forward to our return to the dark ages where education is looked upon as proof of ones connection to the devil. Its about time we got back to the good old days of viewing science as witch craft and doing only what our leaders based in the Vatican tell us to think and do. We can keep our selves warm around the pyres of burning books/art and stave off hunger by feasting on the flesh of the intellectual elite.
We certainly seem to be moving in that direction...
This.
My son had a 'senior' teacher who was simply phoning it in waiting for retirement.
IMO he lost a year of his education due to her crap attitude yet she continues to hold her position despite parent complaints.
Better pay for teachers? Absolutely, the sooner the better.
Job security? Sure, as long as you reasonably perform your job.
Yeah...I kinda figured that. I used to do some work with the healthcare side of the unions there...good god what a cluster...
It's no secret that teaching has a high burn out rate. Your son's teacher may have been a star for 30 years before she hit the wall. She may also have always been a crap teacher but that's not really my point. What options does a 55 year old teacher have if she gets fired?
And it's really hard to decide just who are the good and bad teachers. I have 200 kids who I see once a week for 50 minutes. Realistically there's little I can achieve in that time. If I had, in particular, more time and, less importantly, they paid me more I could probably get some good results. I'm sure some of the kids hate me, some like me and most don't give 2 sh*ts either way. I'm sure some of them feel my class is a complete waste of time and in a way I agree with them but I have to work with the cards I'm dealt and I least try to do a decent job.
Let me tell you about a teacher we have at our school. Our school is in a town that was bombed on the night of August 14th, 1945. This teacher initiated a project were a crew member on one of B-29s that bombed the town came to Japan and met with the students and some of the older people in the town who remember the bombing. It was amazing project that a lot of people got a lot out of and I have a lot of respect for what this teacher did.
This teacher also has 3 giant sized wooden spoons that he belts some of the more recalcitrant boys with from time to time. I've seen him hit a kid so hard that that kid couldn't sit down for the rest of the day. Now I do think that from time to time boys need to be reminded of the "order of things" in a physical way. But I do draw the line at belting kids with a large wooden implement. So is he a good teacher that does some bad things or a bad teacher that does some good things? It's not always so cut and dried as it seems.
was this when you were in washington?
i hope you screamed "i'm canadian motherfvckers!" when you crossed...in french.
My mom was a teacher VB and, despite her being a colossal bitch, I have a soft spot for educators.
All I expect from anyone, union or not, is a reasonable showing.
When the principal at a school acknowledges a performance issue but admits her 'hands are tied' to address it, the system needs a falcon punch.
I don't know if Spoonman's discipline is culturally acceptable but I approve of his passion for teaching.
* I was standing next to the Enola Gay a few days ago, btw.
All I expect from anyone, union or not, is a reasonable showing.
When the principal at a school acknowledges a performance issue but admits her 'hands are tied' to address it, the system needs a falcon punch.
I don't know if Spoonman's discipline is culturally acceptable but I approve of his passion for teaching.
* I was standing next to the Enola Gay a few days ago, btw.
it can be fairly simple, if i frigg up at work they fire my ars, when my teahers messed/ mess up they get a leave of absence with pay. now, i know they work hard and make little but they did chose their jobs and if they were not aware of the low pay when they decided upon the profession i seriously wonder if they are intelligent enough to teach.
the u.s. currently trails 26 nations in education and a big reason is the unions! when you can not be replaced you do not have to push yourself... there is not a nation in the top ten educationally who secures their teachers positions based upon years in the field (but we do).
now, to be fair great teachers should receive great compensation. those who lack the skills or the behavior needed to work with kids should be gone.
so, it is simple. if an educator hits a kid with a spoon they should be fired. not because a kid cant take a spoon beating but because i have had teachers who had the respect of the class to the level that they never had to discipline at all let alone physically. yep, it is rare but true educators capture the minds and hearts of those they teach and the bad ones prepare us for the idiots who we will someday work for or with.
So your perception is the Hollywood myth? Somebody gets up in front of the class and motivates for 2 hours to the point that everyone in the class (even the druggies) concentrates so hard on the subject matter that they all get into Harvard? I grew up in an affluent suburb and even I know that's bullsh*t.
not the "hollywood myth" just i had a couple great teachers who had no issues with discipline.... but maybe the school i went to is an exception. i guess i was just sheltered or lucky or maybe lost in daydreams about bike rides and oblivious to what was going on. sure kids were doing drugs in between classes and even in the restrooms from time to time but some teachers had even their respect.... they may have not done the work assigned but they were respectful enough to let those of us who wanted to learn do so.
i don't have the answer to fixing education but keeping teachers because they have been there for years despite of how they do their job is not it.
at the same time they deserve health care and retirement .... however, one thing they are fighting for is tenure and that is crap.
as for getting into harvard that takes self-motivation and hard work. no one in my opinion can get you there besides yourself.
i am only 19 so i know i have a lot to learn but i think the biggest problem with education is we are trying to force it on some kids who are choosing to fail and thus creating problems for teachers. comes down to personal accountability like everything else.
Legacy students.
Rep+. I think someone has watched Dead Poets Society a few too many times.
I was going to say "To Sir With Love".....I guess that makes me really old.
Or athletic recruitment or international (non-need-blind admissions for international ==> truly rich kids and an ever-increasing endowment). There were the smart kids without connections and then there were those groups.
so very true..... well excluding athletic recruitment (ivy league schools don't give athletic scholarships) but we all know the rest do. in my case a good thing or i would be at home with the parents.
getting a scholarship is all about marketing, and of course connections. i had the first part down but the latter is the easier way.
I went to Harvard. I know athletes who went to Harvard. (My two freshman roommates were an athlete from a rich, international family and a not-super-sharp legacy kid whose sister had gone to Harvard and whose parents were both Harvard Law alum NYC bigwigs.) I know that the athlete at least got in partly because of their potential contribution to the athletic teams even if money wasn't explicitly set aside for their purposes in an "athletic scholarship."
Life isn't fair--see my Rich America, Poor America thread. Best to acknowledge that early on.
Life isn't fair--see my Rich America, Poor America thread. Best to acknowledge that early on.
i tried to get into cornell couldn't afford it.... but am at nova on a full ride scholarship for athletics.....
had no idea ivy schools would do that. how disappointing.
thanks for the info and i will check out thread
My limited but direct experience with public schools aligns exactly with my experience in the corporate world. There is a top 10 percent that makes everything happen. There is a middle 60-80 percent that shows up and does their job well enough. And then there is a bottom 10-30 percent that everyone knows isn't pulling their weight. The difference is, the corporate world is able to cut from the bottom.
You'll never need to make a decision about your on-the-margin example because I am nearly certain you work with another person who is universally acknowledged as dead weight at best, or a burden more likely. These people should not be protected by seniority, and the very fact of protection encourages their lack of performance.
edit - I will corroborate that the Ivies soften their admissions standards for athletes. Not the same thing as athletic scholarships, but certainly makes it easier to get in. It can be rationalized, as athletic performance at the D1 level requires discipline and dedication, and having top athletes rounds out the student mix just as much as other non-academic factors, but yeah, you definitely meet some dumb, unmotivated jocks.
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Well your limited experience is very different to my decade + in the corporate world.
I found that large multinationals like Westfield, ACP or Fairfax all tended to fire fairly evenly across the range.
All too often I saw good workers forced out, and incompetent workers kept on or promoted.
I wrote "able to," not "does." Public schools don't even have the ability, even if the leadership actually has backbone.