"We grew here, you flew here"...racial unrest in Oz
- Thread starter ridetoofast
- Start date
Changleen said:
Got proof?
yep you're right i know nothing. i only dated an aussie lass for 6 months and have now known her for 7 years...she's never told me anything about the policies.valve bouncer said:
re read my original post again and remind me where i said anything the riots. i was speaking to your generalized post about immigration policies as a whole.
Complete bullsh*t Andy. Way more complicated than that. The only people who have anywhere near an open door policy are Kiwis because of the historical ties.
i guess the above means other people find it more difficult to get in?
and THAT is ok but if the US wants to make it more difficult that is somehow wrong?
if its ok for the 'cans to just come streaming in why can't just anyone come streaming into ozzland?
island or not you have more stringent immigration policies...
refute that please, please refute that.
oh wait your valve bouncer you can't possibly be wrong about anything.
If you come in via official channels it IS pretty hard to get into the US, probably harder than into Oz. For example it would certainly be way easier for me as UK citizen to get permanent residency in Oz than the US. You're still comparing legal channels to illegal ones...ridetoofast said:
You're comparing almost completely different situations. The US has a screaming need for cheap labour which Mexicans are illegally filling, but does not have the political will to regulate effective policies due to the large racist voting bloc represented by people like you who can't/refuse to understand the situation and just scream stuff like 'They're taking our jobs!'. If you'd just shut up, then politicians would feel free to enable sufficient quantities of legal immigration to fulfill demand. I'm sure 99.999% of Mexicans would be quite happy, indeed happier, to enter the US legally rather than illegally. Problem solved.
On the other hand Oz has a fairly sensible immigration policy, no vast unfulfilled requirement for cheap labour (at least nothing like the scale of the US), is an island so illegal immigration is that much harder, and is having a problem based around what appear to be largely religious tensions within a very tiny minority of it's lesser educated and poorer communities. The whole thing apparantly started because Muslim immigrants were picking on scantily clad white girls for being scantily clad. White lifeguards chucked a group of such Muslims off the beach under the premis that their game of football was disturbing other beach users, the Muslims then later attacked the lifeguards and then there was the whole drunken white mob retaliation thing. Or you could go back further than that and say the partly self imposed ghettoisation of the immigrant communities lead to the development of distinct cultural groups with different life expectations. It boils down to the same thing in the end.
Do you see why you're dealing with two distinct and disimilar situations now?
Not sure but I doubt it, the marginalisation of Aboriginal people has been very effective pretty much as good as the marginalisation of native American people. Do you really want to start a pissing contest about which country is more racist True? There are plenty of skeletons in both countries.Damn True said:
So tell me about the policies then. I'll give you a start, there are essentially three components.ridetoofast said:
Now talking about illegal immigrants then the way the Australian government treats them is awful and an embarrassment to me and other Australians. Of course a frother like you would completely support it, I'm sure you'd even support blowing their boats out of the water.
valve bouncer said:
Not trying start anything but a discussion. I don't keep close tabs on cabinet level positions in other countries so I was asking.
Did a quick Google....and as for Native Americans in our Govt.....wow, there are more of them than I had thought.
Charles Curtis (Kaw Indian) and VP of the US in the 20's.
Ben Reifel (Souix Indian) US House of Rep's.
Senator (and Cheyanne Indian) Ben "Nighthorse" Campbell.(that one I knew)
Aden Ridgeway is the only Aboriginal in federal parliament. The only other Aborigine to ever serve in federal parliament was Neville Bonner. Representation at state level is slightly better but still not what you'd call good. Aborigines are only about 3% of the population so it's hard for them to achieve effective political representation.Damn True said:
I should point that America has a horrible record with indigenous people and African immigrants, but we have dealt with this problems for the last 200 years, and I think we are getting better.
I just chuckle at Euro and Australian countries who are going through these problems now.
I just chuckle at Euro and Australian countries who are going through these problems now.
Changleen said:If you come in via official channels it IS pretty hard to get into the US, probably harder than into Oz. For example it would certainly be way easier for me as UK citizen to get permanent residency in Oz than the US. You're still comparing legal channels to illegal ones...
You're comparing almost completely different situations. The US has a screaming need for cheap labour which Mexicans are illegally filling, but does not have the political will to regulate effective policies due to the large racist voting bloc represented by people like you who can't/refuse to understand the situation and just scream stuff like 'They're taking our jobs!'. If you'd just shut up, then politicians would feel free to enable sufficient quantities of legal immigration to fulfill demand. I'm sure 99.999% of Mexicans would be quite happy, indeed happier, to enter the US legally rather than illegally. Problem solved.
QUOTE]
oddly enough a lagre percentage of dairy workers in Nebraska are illegal mexicans. Recently the US gov't stepped in and made a few requirements for dairy farms that would make it nearly impossible to hire illegal immegrants. Shortly there after a lot of Nebraska politicians, and major political contributors from that state fired back saying "thanks for the help, but NO THANKS" and ultimately the US Fed Gov stepped out of the whole situation.
The US economy is dependent on illegal mexican labor. Employers don't have to pay for all the benefits they need to pay legal employees, obviously benefits are out of the question which on average costs a company right around $300 per month per employee (cost goes up with dependents claimed by each employee) and they don't have to pay taxes. Major US companies would have to up prices to cover increased budgets if illegal help were no longer allowed. The few companies surviving this would increase prices to consumers causeing major chaos (think of the headlines) . Whats really needed is a "work exchange program" so to speak.
My personal opinion, and it's one I haven't thought through very much is that one thing the entire American continent should adopt from Europe would be free movement of Labour. Make sure everyone has a passport and allow them to work in any American country. The situation is different though, especially wrt social conditions and attitudes and this will obviosly have an effect.
For sure there would be massive resistance to this idea in the US and people would scream that there will be a flood of poor people to the US, but in Europe where we also have massive disparities in wages and incomes, this hasn't happened. Other than Republicans people don't act in black and white landslides.
In effect the market has sorted itself out. There are occasional blips as too many people move from one place to another to fill a particular need, but these soon sort themselves out. London is a great example. Despite having huge immigrant populations there are no swathes of unemployables. People know the deal after so long, and to a great extent (I'm not saying it's perfect) demand for unskilled workers is met but not exceeded to a point where it is a negative factor for the city.
For sure there would be massive resistance to this idea in the US and people would scream that there will be a flood of poor people to the US, but in Europe where we also have massive disparities in wages and incomes, this hasn't happened. Other than Republicans people don't act in black and white landslides.
In effect the market has sorted itself out. There are occasional blips as too many people move from one place to another to fill a particular need, but these soon sort themselves out. London is a great example. Despite having huge immigrant populations there are no swathes of unemployables. People know the deal after so long, and to a great extent (I'm not saying it's perfect) demand for unskilled workers is met but not exceeded to a point where it is a negative factor for the city.
I see your point, but our wellfare programs would seriously suck the economy dry if that were to take place. Not to mention cause huge hikes in Medical expences. With our current system, medical care is already very expensive, it's hard to get good insurance, and even if you do have good insurance, it doesn't always cover everything you may need. 1 of the major contributing factors to this is the expense of taking care of illegal wokers, and their families. Let's face it, the work illegal's do is often very physical, and dangerous. They get hurt, they go to the doctor, they get treated, then they can disappear seeing that they are illegal, and they never pay their bills. In addition we have a huge and well documented problem with people (citizens and illegals both) bringing family members in from outside the country, taking them to the hospital, getting them the care the need, then sending them back home. Never paying the bill. The cost of this care is shifted to all of the people that actually pay their bills. Which your average middle class person will struggle to afford. Again, there are certainly other factors that are causeing hikes in medical care in the US, but this is a huge problem. We'd need a major revision in health care, and welfare before we could adopt a free movement of labor program.
And if they were legal, their employers would be required to purchase medical insurance for them and pay a living wage, thus reducing (though not eliminating) this major drain on taxpayer money.scurban said:
It's the employers of illegals that are most interested in preventing legal immigration. They've just managed to convince a whole lot of other people to "keep out the dirty, lazy, Mexicans."
Cool!!!! This thread has become centred on Mexicans jumping the border. I'm still waiting for Andy to talk to his friend from page 1. BTW Andy your mate was half right.
Customer I have been working with has mainly Mexicans working in manufacturing. All the management and engineer types are your Euro-types. The guys in manufacturing are the hardest working sharpest people in the company, more proof that a degree means little if the name on he paper is of a dumbass.Changleen said:
Only 1/2 the story. The reason why we will likely never have a solution to the problem is this.ohio said:
Big companies such as Agricorporations depend on cheap, often illegal labor. Those guys are bros with the (R) side and therefore they will not push to stop illegal immigration.
While at the same time, the (D) side likes to have underprivledged types who are dependant to some degree on govt. programs (like continued free health care and public education for illegals that they support) to bloster their voting base. So they will not do anything to stop illegal immigration.
You'll have to explain to me how illegals (who, need I point out, can't vote) are bolstering a voting base.Damn True said:
It's also ridiculous to think the democrats actually LIKE having people dependent on the government, just because they disagree with the approaches of the republicans who HATE people that are dependent on the government.
Does anyone else not find it strange that people employed in the best interests of the US economy are not entitled to any of the benefits of the US citizen?
Oh and getting this topic back on track, why is everyone surprised at racism in Australia, after all it's just South Africa but where the white man won.
Oh and getting this topic back on track, why is everyone surprised at racism in Australia, after all it's just South Africa but where the white man won.
That would be due to historical ties... They have the same head of state and are part of the "comonwealth"Changleen said:
Changleen said:
Quite true. I hired a company to pull up a tree and get rid of some cuttings, and they arrived with half a dozen mexicans, and worked their tails off. I gave the group a big tip and they said "Ahhh... corona's!!"
LordOpie said:
No more than anyone else. I took it to mean they were thankful for and looking forward to a cool brew after a hard day of work. It was only about 105f out.
Reactor said:
I am sure they said, "Pinche gringo."
N8 said:
Good one!
Every single one of them!!LordOpie said:
And they have taco-flavoured kisses....
no one's commented yet about the guy in the pic sanjuro posted (brown shirt)...he's got his priorities right. while delivering the beatdown, he hasn't let go of his beer.