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We need a World Cup Overall

Discussion in 'Downhill & Freeride' started by epic, May 1, 2009.

  1. epic

    epic Turbo Monkey

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    I think one of the coolest things back in the day was that guys went to races and raced all of the events. I think that's what made John Tomac as bad as he was. Even guys like Herbold would be racing the XC and Wiens would race the DH. Probably the last person that I can think of that did both was Marla Streb.

    FIS has a World Cup Overall, not everybody contests every race and sometimes a specialist will win enough races outright to win the overall. A Sam Hill or a Julien Absalon could do this, but wouldn't it be cool to see who can be truly competetive at both. What cold an Adam Craig do. I saw him ripping up the Mt St Anne DH on a Trance Advanced. I'm pretty sure if he swung a leg over a Glory he'd do OK.
     
    #1 -   May 1, 2009

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  2. Total Heckler

    Total Heckler Beer and Bike Enthusiast

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    Well I think we have a few hopefuls for the US making their way up... I guess just more on the dual/DH like Johnny was doing before he stopped racing.

    John Tomac content:
     
    #2 -   May 1, 2009
    Last edited: May 1, 2009
  3. ska todd

    ska todd Turbo Monkey

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    I'm not sure if current scheduling at WC events would even make that possible. It is a specialist sport between DHI & 4X, much more between DH & XCO.

    -ska todd
     
    #3 -   May 1, 2009
  4. Total Heckler

    Total Heckler Beer and Bike Enthusiast

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    Yeah scheduling probably has something to do with why it isn't happening.

    But I think it would be pretty cool if they scheduled things well enough to make it possible.

    I also think with the level of racing these days, its near impossible to maintain it over multiple disciplines like xc to dh without dedicating all your time to one or the other. I could be wrong though.

    Regardless, it would be rad if people started doing it again.
     
    #4 -   May 1, 2009
  5. epic

    epic Turbo Monkey

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    They could make it if they wanted to. FIS has close to 40 WC races each year. Not everybody competes in every race. You can still have specialists that don't take starts in every race, but this way you get to see who the best overall rider is.

    It'll probably never happen, but it should.
     
    #5 -   May 1, 2009
  6. stiksandstones

    stiksandstones Turbo Monkey

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    You only get that kind of stuff happening when a sport is in it's birthing process. Not going to see it happen again. Enjoy watching tapes of Tomes, Rune, Gerhard, Iten doing both, because that was the last of it.
     
    #6 -   May 1, 2009
  7. - seb

    - seb Turbo Monkey

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    Question: what does DHI and XCO stand for?
     
    #7 -   May 1, 2009
  8. stiksandstones

    stiksandstones Turbo Monkey

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    downhill individual
    cross country olympic
     
    #8 -   May 1, 2009
  9. epic

    epic Turbo Monkey

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    I'm not sure you could expect someone to be winning both disciplines on a regular basis, but when points are close. But winning the overall would be a whole separate thing. I'm not sure how many points there are in a season or how deep they go, but suppose you got toward the end of the season and Absalon and Minnaar had the same points. It would be fun to see Absalon trying to get points in a DH to win the overall. Plus as I said before maybe there are people in the middle of the pack that would prove to be better than the specialists in chasing points for the overall.
     
    #9 -   May 1, 2009
  10. epic

    epic Turbo Monkey

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    Why? Ski racing has been around for 100 years, 50 years in it's current form and it has an overall.

    Not saying you're wrong though. This will probably never happen.
     
  11. stiksandstones

    stiksandstones Turbo Monkey

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    I know jack-sh1t about ski racing, but you are telling me they have a world cup overall for people that do DOWNHILL and XC skiing through the woods? I can't imagine (forgive my name knowledge) big buff 'Hans Fritzenklamer' downhill guy racing skinny 'theo vonnoordermark' in the cross country the next day....and vice versa???
     
  12. epic

    epic Turbo Monkey

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    No, They have DH, SG, GS, and Slalom, not sure if they count points from the Combined or Super-Combined. There are Speed specialists and Tech specialists as well as guys (and girls - Lindsey Vonn) that are good at all of them.

    The Nords do get points for XC racing and Jumping though and those sports could hardly be more different.
     
  13. jonKranked

    jonKranked Press Button, Receive Stupid

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    I definitely think this would be a cool idea to see. Even if it was just a one off event, or a mini series...

    set up a weekend event and have 3 or 4 different events, and score them. Most points wins!

    -dh
    -slalom
    -xc
    -short track?
     
  14. dante

    dante Unabomber

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    how about tailoring it to one end of the spectrum, either XC or DH? So on the DH side of things it would be a combination of DH, 4X, DS, SuperD, and a short short-track (5min? 10min?).

    I wouldn't combine full-blown XC and full-blown DH as the sports have diverged so much. I doubt many of the XCers could even get down a true WC DH course, let alone race it at a competitive level. The XC crowd could do SuperD and maybe a DS along with the Short Track though....
     
  15. Dangerous E

    Dangerous E Monkey

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    Snowboarding is a perfect example of this. Look at a guy like Craig Kelly--won every race known to man and dominated halfpipe as well. Back then, it was about being able ride everything, not specializing. Just like back in the day, dudes were rocking XC one day and DH the next.

    That being said, I think it would be rad to see some kind of all mountain omnium. Giving some mid-pack dudes from any of the disciplines a shot at an overall title might change the faces we see on the podium each week.
     
  16. epic

    epic Turbo Monkey

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    They might very well surprise us. I watched the XC up at St Anne a year ago (nothing better to do while waiting fro the DH) and I have to say that some of those guys were better than I thought they'd be.
     
  17. ronan

    ronan Monkey

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    i saw them in andorra on a rather easy section and they didn't seem to be all that great, lots of brakes and weird body positions

    then i saw the females came down.. 1 was crying at the end of the pack and im not sure why :( she was still riding though
     
  18. Westy

    Westy the teste

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    Cycling pentathlon

    DH
    XC
    Road
    BMX
    Track- individual pursuit
     
  19. Cant Climb

    Cant Climb Turbo Monkey

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    ......
     
  20. epic

    epic Turbo Monkey

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    That doesn't sound much different from the women's DH (outside the top 5).
     
  21. Scrub

    Scrub Turbo Monkey

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    Didn't they do that sort of thing at the Sea Otter a few years back called the "Omnium" or something like that?
     
  22. ska todd

    ska todd Turbo Monkey

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    -ska todd
     
  23. stiksandstones

    stiksandstones Turbo Monkey

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    Ya, from 2003-2007 they did it (basically just compile points for DH, 4X and Slalom). My wife won it the first year, as an older retired pro ;)
     
  24. kootenaytallboy

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    An overall would be sweet to see, but wouldn't it be better to bridge the gap between XC and DH with a true UCI all mountain series? With the popularity of Super DH races like mega-avalanche and all mountain races like Downieville, it seems like a no-brainer. And lets face it, if one considers revenue and potential sponsorships, then shouldn't there be something aimed at what the majority of riders actually ride. After all, I'm pretty sure that 5 and 6 inch travel bikes vastly outsell 3-4 inch XC or 8 inch DH bikes.

    Furthermore, shouldn't there be some sanctioned even that highlights the particular skillset that can handle both endurance and technical skill. Obviously, XC is a test of fitness, with little technical skill required. DH is mostly the opposite, although as any gravity racer can tell you, clearly fitness is also a component. Finding the middle ground seems like a more logical choice than a test of both formats, and it would undoubtedly highlight many riders who don't get the credit they deserve. And besides, watching people who excel is inherently more entertaining than watching people do merely what they have to do. That last point is why, in my opinion, watching a GS or SuperG ski race is more entertaining than watching the alpine combined... the guys and gals are ripping the course, as opposed to merely getting down it so as to post a time.
     
  25. epic

    epic Turbo Monkey

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    I think races like you are talking about should totally be World Cups and they should count towards the (fictional) combined.
     
  26. rossp

    rossp Chimp

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    I know someone once said it's not about the bike, but it makes a huge difference. I ride Dh and XC - I always wondered why the XC guys when they corner look like they are about to fall over. Now when I ride my XC hardtail with the seat right up and steep head angle I know why!!! I find myself with very weird body positions when riding that, compared to the DH bike.

    There are pics of Adam Craig launching some decent size drops out there too. I guess that a lot of the XC guys would surprise people on an all mountain type course. Of course, some wouldn't but that's the law of averages.
     
  27. Rider15

    Rider15 Chimp

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    What about Jared Graves? Probably wouldn't win a DH round but he is certainly up there. First in the mens 4X and 8th in the DH at South Africa.
     
  28. stiksandstones

    stiksandstones Turbo Monkey

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    Graves has been a dual duty badass for many many years.
     
  29. joelsman

    joelsman Turbo Monkey

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    mtbr has a discussion like this later part in the AM forum

    having a stage race would be good for an AM race. hill climb, dh, and a trail that has some short steep climbs and some gnarly dh, several sections of each.
    all this on one bike no changes, but adjustable fork and seat post recommended.

    KING of the HILL!
     
  30. jbogner

    jbogner Monkey

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    You mean, like THIS?

    An all-mountain race that was won by a former WC DH champ on a 5" travel bike with a Pike thru-axle fork and a Joplin post? A race where a guy on a 42lb 8" travel bike can still finish in the top half? ;)
     
  31. primo661

    primo661 Monkey

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    Them xc boys have brilliant technical skill, you'd be surprised! Burry stander was the South African youth men champion if i recall correctly and about 3 years ago he raced one of our dh nationals and did really well...
     
  32. karpi

    karpi Monkey

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    Here in Chile, a couple of years back, we had one of the top XC racers change to DH, and he would finish in the top 10 elite in all the races... makes you think!