[MikeD]

Well - if just a few of the people such as myself begin to raise concerns about who has guns and what they are used for, maybe the country will become a better place.

We don't need to 'raise the issue,' as it's already in our face. What we need is intelligent discourse.

You say the militia guys are not average. Neither are the "I have a right, and phuck you if you say I don't, Charlton Heston followers".

My point about the militiamen in the movie is that don't serve a purpose besides making gun owners look ridiculous. They don't help advance a point...again, he's showing the unhealthy fringes, while at the same time crying that the 'media' dwells on the extreme fringes to create its 'culture of fear.' Again, I don't personally have a problem with making fun of the nutjobs, necessarily...but he's committing gross hypocrisy when he does! It's also not adding much credibility to your documentary to treat them in an openly mocking fashion. Humor is great, and I think a whole movie about gun nuts, a'la Trekkies, would be a riot. But it wouldn't be where I turn for serious political discourse.

The NRA guys are just as unhealthy as gun nuts as anyone else. He brings a good point about the right to bear arms. Does an arm need to be able to kill you from 500 yards??? There are many weapons made and sold that are not needed. I have always thought this. In high school, we were at a party with a kid shooting at a rabbit one Friday night. The sheriff showed up and wanted to chat. Turns out that he was shooting through a bedroom window up the road. Bear in mind, that when they gave us the right to bear arms, there were no 500 rounds per minute weapons made. I am ok with going back to muzzle loaders. I have to think some things are out of control in out country.

Now you're making points-good ones-that are often part of the gun-control debate in this country. They still don't help clarify what's actually good about this movie. Again, just 'raising the issues' and 'making me think' don't cut it. They're superficial and broad-based justifications for a movie for which I've been unable to find a single, logical explanation or justification.

Can I fix them??? Not right now, but with enough folks trying, I am sure we can. What seperates us from Australia??? You tell me since you seem to criticize Moore for not knowing.

I criticize Moore for not addressing the issue, and to me, it's the issue at heart. He's the one making the movie and claiming to offer us insight...yet he falls his flattest on this very point. Why CAN Canadians have guns without the problems we do? He makes a big point about this, and then talks about foreign policy, and our society somehow being reflective of it. He doesn't draw any logical conclusions to make this connection...he uses footage from a 'missile factory' (actually, it makes rockets to put sattelites in orbit) to somehow make us emotionally immune to this sleight-of-hand.

I don't know the answer to that question-I never claimed to know it-and I went to see the movie in hopes that I'd get some insight towards it, if not answers. All I saw was a dance around it. It was like someone offering you a vacation in Aspen...if only you'll sit through their presentation on timeshare condos once you're there. It was a prepackaged commercial for Moore's agenda.

MD

 

[MikeD]

Well - if just a few of the people such as myself begin to raise concerns about who has guns and what they are used for, maybe the country will become a better place. I own a gun, I don't think I could use it on someone though. You say the militia guys are not average. Neither are the "I have a right, and phuck you if you say I don't, Charlton Heston followers". The NRA guys are just as unhealthy as gun nuts as anyone else. He brings a good point about the right to bear arms. Does an arm need to be able to kill you from 500 yards??? There are many weapons made and sold that are not needed. I have always thought this. In high school, we were at a party with a kid shooting at a rabbit one Friday night. The sheriff showed up and wanted to chat. Turns out that he was shooting through a bedroom window up the road. Bear in mind, that when they gave us the right to bear arms, there were no 500 rounds per minute weapons made. I am ok with going back to muzzle loaders. I have to think some things are out of control in out country. Can I fix them??? Not right now, but with enough folks trying, I am sure we can. What seperates us from Australia??? You tell me since you seem to criticize Moore for not knowing.

I also think it's funny that whenever I ask the eternal and simple question, "What is Michael Moore's thesis," all I get is rambling anecdotal evidence and arguments for gun control. That's how I felt watching the movie.

You can say "the movie doesn't need a thesis! It's just presenting points of view to make you think!," but 1) that doesn't make it a good opinion piece or documentary and 2) in the end, you're subverted by the fact that the movie does, indeed, have a thesis...US foriegn policy sucks.

I have no problems with the thesis, and indeed, wouldn't mind seeing a movie critical of US foriegn policy...but I don't expect it to come sidelong at me in a movie that's supposedly about the tragedy of 11,000 people dead in the US from guns and gun violence.

He never, ever addresses the factors that make this number so big. 11,000 people sure aren't dead from Columbine and Flint.

MD

 

[JRB]

I can agree with that point MikeD. I guess I can say that the movie heightened my awareness, but I have no idea what his agenda is. I guess you are right and we can only specualate as to what he wishes to accomplish. I don't know if I really think I know the agenda of the film now. I do, however, think Moore is less of a nutcase than I did before. I was challenged to watch the films so I could form an intelligent opinion of Moore. Yeah he is an extremist, but I don't think he is an idiot as I did from simply watching him rant on TV. If nothing else, I learned about judging people prematurely. I guess I can't answer your questions. Not in a way that you don't counter the answers with questions anyway.

 

[MikeD]

I sure don't think Moore's a nutcase...quite the opposite. He's incredibly intelligent and skilled...he just has a machiavellian sense of his ends justifying his means. He's a reptile dressed in what he thinks is a cuddly bunny suit. In the end, though, he's kind of a creepy Donnia Darko bunny than the fluffy liberal he wants to present himself as.

 

[Damn True]

Wierd that this is still not in the political forum.

I guess it's ok if we are talking about Moore who everyone thinks is some kind of liberal messiah.

 

[JRB]

After watching a little more at lunch, I think the problem is we are so phucking mean. Look at how hateful thread titles are here. I am including myself. We are not even kind to each other. No wonder so many people are killed each year. Like the canadians said, just make fun of people.