[Kanye West]

I've been out of the game for a bit and haven't kept up on every new product, so I'm looking for some input here. I've been a pretty religious Shimano user over the bunch of years when it comes to brakes. My gen 1 and gen 2 Saint brakes were pretty much flawless, except for the crappy lever ergos of the gen 2. With a newer XT lever put on it, I loved the feel, but then the bike got stolen. I've heard only so-so things about the 2013 Saint stuff.

I've always had a soft spot for the Hope Moto V2's and whatever their other high-end DH brake is nowadays (I think the Evo V4?) so that is definitely on my radar as well for the new build.

I don't give a damn about weight. I can take a dump, cut my hair, shave a little closer, vomit, or go commando if I'm really concerned about that. I want power, good ergos and reliability.

Despite my distaste for anything SRAM, I do think the Codes are one of their more solid products. If I find them cheap enough, I could be tempted.

Owned Formulas, and found them to be finicky as hell after their first bleed. Never got them feeling right again. I do love the K18's that I have on my trail bike though. I don't know why their DH brakes can't be that simple. In any case, probably not considering those, especially since they come at a high premium for the weight.

So, the main 3 I'm considering are Saints, Hope V2/V4's, and Codes, presently leaning heavily towards the Hopes. Any other suggestions? Real-world comparisons between those?

 

[frango]

After many year of riding on Avid brakes I switched to Shimano (XT 2012) last year.
I've just had first opportunity to test them. Few days in rainy, muddy, sometimes sunny Sanremo of dragging brakes
They have never failed me, so far. No loss of power. Great brakes.

So, if you want something seriously powerful, I would go for new Saints with finned rotors or, if you've got too much money Kettle Cycles carbon rotors

 

[norbar]

Little to say about the new hopes but the 2011 V2's felt great, rode 2011 m4's and they were a bit weak but the modulation and fading made me happy.

V2's had a very firm lever feel but for some reason easy to get a feel for them. If you have insanely long fingers go for 810 saints as it was pointed out to me on RM it may be the only reason I like them.

 

[mattmatt86]

Formula RO's are the best brakes I've ridden. They have definitely improved some of the "finicky" issues of past models.

 

[Carraig042]

Another vote for the V2's. My buddy just got some of the V4's but does not have enough time on the to get some good info on them. The V2's use a special rotor from Hope that has a larger contact area, the V4's just use regular discs.

-Brett

 

[Sandwich]

You might be guinea pigging, but my vote is for the 2013 saints.

I (absolutely) loved my 810 saints. The lever adjustability was great, ergonomics were great, power was great, modulation was great, reliability was great. I had zero complaints with those brakes.

I also have 2009 XTs and they've been good, not real powerful but incredibly reliable.

I have 2013 xts now, and I don't have enough time on them to report anything, but they've improved the ergonomics quite a bit. The lever feels notchy in the stand but I'll be damned if I could feel it out on the trail. Power felt good though the pads weren't even bedded in yet.

I know some people have reported bad things with the saints but they're so new still. Four pistons, two radiators, improved ergonomics and caliper design....

I've heard good things about the V2s, but the expense and availability were kind of a downer for me.

 

[jonKranked]

one thing to consider re: shimano vs hope... you can walk into pretty much and reasonably well stocked LBS and get replacement parts for shimano brakes. Can't really say that for hope.

 

[yd35]

Don't have any experience with Hopes, but I love the easy serviceability of Shimano. Parts are easy to find, and bleeding is simple. Formula The Ones were the best performing brakes I ever had, but they were a PITA to bleed. I couldn't ever get back to that magical place of braking Nirvana they took me to out of the box.

 

[Kanye West]

My experience with the Formulas and Shimanos mirrors the statements above. The Formulas felt great, but what a mofo to bleed correctly. Don't like the newer style lever ergos too.

My Saint 800's and 810's were also damn good, but the lever ergos on the 810 did start to bother me after a while. I switched to the newest XT levers a couple years ago just before my last bike got stolen, and loved that feel. The only thing steering me away from the newest Saint brakes is the poor reviews of the lever consistency, or some such thing.

You'd think that any old shop would have Shimano parts, but I've been pretty let down by brake parts availability at basically every southern California LBS I've been into when I needed something in a pinch.

I didn't know that about the V2's. So they can't work with a standard rotor? Only the wider area Hope rotors? That certainly adds some cost.

Thanks for the input. Keep it coming.

 

[Nick]

Formula The Ones were the best performing brakes I ever had, but they were a PITA to bleed.

That.

I used Ones and love them save for the bleed process. I replaced with m810 Saints. I loved the Saints but they weren't trouble free as other Shimano brakes I've owned. Bleeding was simple, but I was doing it more often.

I intended on "upgrading" to m820 brakes but didn't. I use m785 XT brakes on my trail bike, and now w/8" rotors on my DH bike as well. Awesome consistent brakes, light and cheap, pad compound options and the perfect lever for me.

 

[William42]

one thing to consider re: shimano vs hope... you can walk into pretty much and reasonably well stocked LBS and get replacement parts for shimano brakes. Can't really say that for hope.

Can you? I'm not trying to be a jackass here, just asking. I know in my neck of the woods, chances are if you walk into a shop, its not going to have anything in the way of DH stuff for brakes besides maybe hoses/olives. And its very very infrequent that a new hose/olive is necessary. I would say you're about as likely to find hope DH brake products as you are shimano DH brake products.

 

[Sandwich]

hayes mags

 

[kidwoo]

My Saint 800's and 810's were also damn good, but the lever ergos on the 810 did start to bother me after a while. I switched to the newest XT levers a couple years ago just before my last bike got stolen, and loved that feel. The only thing steering me away from the newest Saint brakes is the poor reviews of the lever consistency, or some such thing.

XTs aren't exactly out of place on a dh bike. If I were buying completely new brakes, I wouldn't buy saints for my dh bike either.

 

[Carraig042]

I have seen people use regular rotors with the V2, but the pads are going to overlap the braking surface some. The V4 seems like a good bet though without the extra costs.

How often do you need extra parts. Brake pads don't mysteriously wear out and they use dot fluid for bleeding.

Brett

 

[Ithnu]

I've run Hayes Stroker Aces for years racing DH. I've never had them fade. The lever may get a little soft or pump up on long runs but they always work. *Probably more my lack of skill at bleeding than the brake design.

Last year at Snowmass some racers were getting leery of their brakes, one guy even crashed because his blew out. Mine were fine.

 

[kazlx]

I absolutely love my new XTs on my trail bike. I've heard a few negative reviews about the Saints, but don't think that would be the norm. If I would be able to have them feel like my XTs, I'd be sold. That being said, I have Codes on my Banshee and haven't had any issues.

 

[jonKranked]

Can you? I'm not trying to be a jackass here, just asking. I know in my neck of the woods, chances are if you walk into a shop, its not going to have anything in the way of DH stuff for brakes besides maybe hoses/olives. And its very very infrequent that a new hose/olive is necessary. I would say you're about as likely to find hope DH brake products as you are shimano DH brake products.

a lot of the bits for shimano brakes are common components; banjos, hoses, etc. Pistons for the new saint stuff no. Cross compatibility is generally good too. I'm running xt levers with saint calipers and love them.

 

[jonKranked]

You'd think that any old shop would have Shimano parts, but I've been pretty let down by brake parts availability at basically every southern California LBS I've been into when I needed something in a pinch.

"We don't have that, but we can get it for you."

SoCal is road bike heaven. I don't miss it.

Surprisignly, where I'm at, even places like REI have shimano bits on hand.

 

[StabprimoMonkee]

Anything Hope ever made would be hard pressed to be called a brake for extended steep downhills. Just saying.

In my neck of woods extended steep downhills are the name of the game. And only good, powerful brakes for a big lad ever made are Gustavs and Shimano Saints.

My 0.02$

 

[gemini2k]

In my neck of woods extended steep downhills are the name of the game. And only good, powerful brakes for a big lad ever made are Gustavs and Shimano Saints.

My 0.02$

But sadly Magura doesn't make any DH brake anymore, much less the Gustav

http://www.magura.com/en/bicyclecomp/products/79-2013/disc-brakes.html

 

[kidwoo]

I don't think I've ever NOT been able to find shimano parts on road trips. Seems like avid and shimano are the new hayes as far as real mtb shops keeping their bits around.

 

[Carraig042]

Anything Hope ever made would be hard pressed to be called a brake for extended steep downhills. Just saying.

In my neck of woods extended steep downhills are the name of the game. And only good, powerful brakes for a big lad ever made are Gustavs and Shimano Saints.

My 0.02$

-1 to this comment. Where I ride you are on the brakes most of the way down the mountain as it is steep and techy and my V2's work flawlessly. They have worked great everywhere I have used them.

-Brett

 

[gemini2k]

Where I ride you are on the brakes most of the way down the mountain as it is steep and techy

In East Tennessee? Whereabouts?

 

[Carraig042]

A place called Windrock in Oliver Springs, TN. It is private land owned by a coal company. They mainly have OHV trails, but we have our own section of the mountain with about 2000 feet of elevation to play with. Trails have been around 10 plus years.

-Brett

 

[Sandwich]

Moto V2s were supposedly the best there is when it came to power. Massive everything, pistons, rotors, pads, master cylinder....braided lines from the factory. They even had the vented rotor for added ventilation. I never spent any time on them but the numbers are there. I personally think the pad radiators are a little cleaner of a design vs. the two faced rotor, but they achieve something similar.

 

[jonKranked]

-1 to this comment. Where I ride you are on the brakes most of the way down the mountain as it is steep and techy and my V2's work flawlessly. They have worked great everywhere I have used them.

-Brett

Sounds like hopes are hit or miss, which I've heard before

 

[ianjenn]

Sounds like hopes are hit or miss, which I've heard before

I have not had an issue with Hope since about 1998-1999

 

[msaman]

First run on a

.I was dragging my brakes for 10 mins
That's not me on the clip
I know this doesnt sound well for my bike skills but the new Saints had no fade or whatsoever : )))
ofc with Icetech rotors .
Also no probs with mine.Awesome modulation - I am yet to lock tyre on mud it's so great in that compartment.
If you dont like the new Saints you always can ask for a refund.

 

[boylagz]

Another vote for the 2012 Shimano XTs. Id go out on a limb and say they feel as powerful as Code Rs I had before. A lil bedding when new but once theyre set, they have all the power youll need. All day in the bike park; no fade from experience. Its relatively light vs. dh specific stoppers, and can be had for about $120 per end online easily. Im in love with the new Shimano levers too. They feel great.

 

[6thElement]

After a few years constantly RMA'ing and bleeding my Codes I swapped to V2's and haven't had a single problem with them and I'm a brake dragging hack

I'm actually tempted to put the new V4's on my trail bike.

 

[Carraig042]

Sounds like hopes are hit or miss, which I've heard before

I have not heard that from anyone. Not at least on anything modern they make. All good reviews from people who have actually owned them.


I had a lot of problem with shimano m810s and they wouldn't do anything for me.

Brett

 

[gemini2k]

A place called Windrock in Oliver Springs, TN. It is private land owned by a coal company. They mainly have OHV trails, but we have our own section of the mountain with about 2000 feet of elevation to play with. Trails have been around 10 plus years.

-Brett

Ah, yeah. I've rode all the trails there. Nothing that steep or long. No brake burner type stuff at least. I thought you might be talking about someplace else. Great fun though.

 

[Carraig042]

Ah, yeah. I've rode all the trails there. Nothing that steep or long. No brake burner type stuff at least. I thought you might be talking about someplace else. Great fun though.

Edit: No need to get any further off-topic. I have no desire to prove anything here.

-Brett

 

[gemini2k]

Has anyone had real problems with the lastest Gen codes?

I've been rocking one pair for like 2 years now, probably gone through 4-5 sets of pads. I've done a few preventative bleeds but nothing beyond that. Is that experience common? I would say I use the crap out of my brakes given my lazy riding style, large stature, and steep trails. It seems like they get a bad rep because of the problems the first gen but I really like the latest ones. I feel like I don't know anyone around here who runs them. Those know know me know that it takes a LOT for me to say anything positive about avid/RS/SRAM.

I have no desire to prove anything here.

Hmmm?

 

[frango]

I've been on front Code 2011 for a season or a bit more. Switched from Elixir CR, which I felt was too weak on long descents.
I had no issues with this brake. I switched to 2012 XT to try something new.

 

[Zark]

My 820's have been fade free, The lever throw is long though. I like the modulation, power and lever shape. Shaving the bleed block down resets the pistons closer and reduces throw, but some have had to bleed often to retain this. I have been lucky so far.

 

[norbar]

Has anyone had real problems with the lastest Gen codes?

I've been rocking one pair for like 2 years now, probably gone through 4-5 sets of pads. I've done a few preventative bleeds but nothing beyond that. Is that experience common? I would say I use the crap out of my brakes given my lazy riding style, large stature, and steep trails. It seems like they get a bad rep because of the problems the first gen but I really like the latest ones. I feel like I don't know anyone around here who runs them. Those know know me know that it takes a LOT for me to say anything positive about avid/RS/SRAM.



Hmmm?

Some friends had random lever throw issues. Probably the same PITA bleeding thing as in the formula since the symptoms were the same

 

[tabletop84]

2012 Codes with X0-Levers felt very inconsistent but I recon the reason were the levers.

 

[jezso]

Has anyone had real problems with the lastest Gen codes?

I've been rocking one pair for like 2 years now, probably gone through 4-5 sets of pads. I've done a few preventative bleeds but nothing beyond that. Is that experience common? I would say I use the crap out of my brakes given my lazy riding style, large stature, and steep trails. It seems like they get a bad rep because of the problems the first gen but I really like the latest ones. I feel like I don't know anyone around here who runs them. Those know know me know that it takes a LOT for me to say anything positive about avid/RS/SRAM.



Hmmm?

I am using mine for two years now without any issues. One bleed per year is enough, and it has no reliability issues. Performance wise I do not need more than this, I feel the power is enough and modulation is really good (I am 82 Kgs in gear and ride on an intermediate level which means I am braking a lot). I put them to the test several times on the WC trackof Maribor and other bike parks with a lot of elevation change. They are surprisingly lightweight, lighter than the new XTs. Now I am going to buy the new HS1 discs as the CS3 screams a lot when wet. Also thinking to buy Code R for my Enduro bike to replace Gen 2 XTR which can not really handle heat and the rear caliper is very flexible as it is still IS standard.

 

[Lelandjt]

You want power and heat management so there are 2 options that stand above the rest:
Saint with IceTech rotors
Formula RO with Kettle rotors (I have The Ones w/Kettle rotors, awesome)

Both these brakes have great power, manage heat well enough to prevent fade under sustained use, and don't have any goofy flaws. Formula is lighter but Saint is cheaper so for you Saint is the easy answer.

I've had so many issues with Avid brakes that I can't recommend any of them. The washer stack on the caliper causes problems and their taper bore lever seems prone to letting air in. Basically every one I've touched has howled and had inconsistent feel. Hope's and Hayes' DH brakes may be good and the addition of Kettle rotors helps any brake with heat and fade but why take a chance when Shimano and Formula are such proven performers. I can't imagine what bleeding issues people are having with Formula. Using 2 threaded syringes, ala Avid's kit, they're easy to get a perfect bleed with no mess. Same goes for any brake with threaded bleed ports at each end like Saint.