[demo 9]

Kinda been wondering about this for a long time, I have never ever found conditions where i felt that a spike would be best suited towards my riding. (in a race setting) I have seen many others ride spikes in the same race where i used a Trusty DHF. Most recently i noticed this at plattekill-this weekend. It was a muddy/loamy top half and a shale bottom half. By the end of saturday practice it was a rutted rooty mess up top. (seriously awesome) Mud was minimal as the little bit that was there was all gone, and it was just sliding down the trail with no control of braking or turning. I ran DHFs (i only run DHFs) and i noticed about half the field was on spikes. While I am not Aaron gwin or a WC mechanic to say that this makes no sense to me, I still think it makes no sense...From my limited knowledge, spikes dont handle well in dry, they roll poorly, and they dont grip anything besides mud, and grip worse on the normal medians you find on a trail. (wet roots, rocks, shale, ect) Half the course is dry and the half that is muddy is roots, shale, and rocks. I find this is a common occurrence on rainy races-regardless of venue.


So my question becomes, do spikes work better on wet rocks, roots, and other mediums BESIDES mud?

My expierience says no, that a generic tire will always do best on (wet) roots and rocks-am i missing something? I would think that the spike tire is pretty close to useless-at least in the northeast.

*Run DHFs dry or wet-100% of time
*tried to buy wetscreams this weekend, guy never answered
*objectively considering a set of spikes-if i find they can have an advantage

 

[Wa-Aw]

I say there are times when spike tires are clearly better than high surface area tires like DHF's or butchers. But even among spikes there are degrees to spikey-ness. I run hillbillies for spikes because they are more versatile than other spike tires like wet screams. But recently i got creamed at a race by every rider on wet screams the whole course was pure wet soft clay and it rained. TL;DR: Every tire is unique, even among spikes.

Now for conditions where spikes are better (in my opinion):

Grass, especially wet grass. Yeah dry tires can grip here and work well in the dry, spike tires just stick to that stuff like glue and you can lay it down like no one's business.

Pine needles (and leaves in general) - anything with a high surface area tends to slide across the surface, spikes cut through.

Of course any of the above can be compensated for with skill, to a point.


Edit: Looking forward to this summer and trying out the hillbilly's on some courses known for steepness and deep dust.

Edit:Edit!: i like my hillbilly's especially much for slower tighter courses where you do a lot more low speed stuff, heavy breaking and accelerating. I love DHF's for anything else not listed above. I would not run spikes on high speed courses, just feels wobbly, and I hate hearing my money scrape away when I hit the brakes before a sharp corner.

 

[blackohio]

I gave DHF's up for the first time last weekend to run the Conti Rain Kings (Baron? now) and they were awesome in the wet Blackrock trails.Not a tremendous amount of rocks there but I felt confident everywhere.

Not really a spike, but a good open block tire.

 

[Beef Supreme]

I gave DHF's up for the first time last weekend to run the Conti Rain Kings (Baron? now) and they were awesome in the wet Blackrock trails.Not a tremendous amount of rocks there but I felt confident everywhere.

Not really a spike, but a good open block tire.

I'm not crazy about the Rain Kings for around here. They are OK but a Muddy Mary works just as well and rolls a lot faster. Blackrock drains pretty well so you never really need a full spike there. (I recognized your bike when you pulled in.)

As to the OP's question, spikes work great in the Pacific Northwest. Imagine your track without the shale, rocks or dry sections. You can rail super greasy conditions like it is dry. That being said, not all spikes are created equal. Wet Screams are OK on roots and rocks while something harder like a Black Shark or KOM is terrifying.

 

[Optimax150]

Yeah there's not a lot of conditions I use a full spike anymore. If its a muddy mess I use a full spike. I run cut spikes a lot. I like them for the mud shedding and traction in the corners on wet courses. Also cut spikes don't have the squirm and get good traction on roots and rocks. They are actually my favorite tire to run, even in the dry, just pump them up a bit more.

 

[buckoW]

Steep, wet and soft conditions where clogging is a problem is when I run spikes. Sometimes steep and loose where you need to slow down better (so you can brake later). Most of the trails we ride are steep and loamy so the spikes help get down in there and find some grip. I like all kinds of tires and they all have their time and place. Figuring out where each one excels is also key.

 

[Marius]

I was riding spikes this summer in Portes du Soleil. It was raining nearly every day and the tracks consisted of mud, roots mud and mud again ;-). Tried it with DHF but didn`t work after changing to spikes it was fun

 

[norbar]

I'm with Ben on that. I'd add anything that is relatively soft. Regular tires may slider with the top part but spikes may dig in but for most cases - anything that clogs your tire or if it is steep. I really need to try some cut spikes next season though.

 

[Marius]

At first I also thought that I don`t need spikes, but now it`s really nice to have them in the mud

 

[StabprimoMonkee]

Spikes tend to grip fantastically in anything soft. Spikes roll poorly. Spikes have **** braking characteristics (except in soft, where other tires won't bake at all). Cut down spike is an awesome tire for anything where braking is unnecessary and side knob traction is important. Cut down spike on front wheel is awesome in most conditions.

Spikes are **** on rocks. Spikes are **** on roots. Both are better if spike is cut down. There are some tracks and conditions where riding a spike or regular tire is an equal tradeoff. Sometimes a section is such that it pays off to run spike (or cut down spike) for the whole run.

But generally spikes shine in conditions that one would ordinarilly not consider riding their pushbike in.

Champery 2011 was a perfect example.

 

[Optimax150]

Agree with norbar and stabprimo, anytime clogging is a problem and/or if shoulder knobs traction is important. And norbar, try a set of cut wetscreams they are a great alround tire. Fast rolling, good mud shedding and great traction in corners. But yes there is a certain tire for each condition and track.

 

[Sandwich]

Cut spikes or hillbilly's for east coast riding, any time it's wet. If it's pouring and you're at a course like mt snow or killington with wide open ski slopes, you can probably get away with a full spike.

Otherwise your DHFs will handle everything. Maybe highrollers for dry conditions, if you're made of money.

I save my worn out DH tires for riding at highland exclusively.

At least that's my opinion. I did well with my butchers in 90% of conditions this year, and my DHF/R 3C combo in 100% of conditions the year before that. Sticky rubber is awesome stuff, and most places on the east coast have plenty of rocks/rock faces in the trail where a harder compound or full spike will suffer.

 

[BmxConvert]

I've pretty much put the Wet Screams away and never touch them anymore. I use Black Turtles in the winter in Washington. They seem to grab rock(the little we have on our trail) and roots(lots of em) well. Braking isn't an issue either. They also roll tons faster than Wet Screams. I am going to pick up a set of the Specialized Storm/HillBilly tires to see if they will be a fair compromise. Spikes in Washington for just about everyone in my area go on in November and come off in February/March.

 

[jnooth]

I tend to run spikes when the mud wont clear from my dry tires. A prime example was national championships this year. the whole course was muddy and a spike was definitely better in most parts of the course but there was a long flat rock garden and people kept saying i want to run dry tires just for that part of the course. I started on drys and could not grip the rock in the rock garden to save my life. my tires were to packed with mud. I put my spikes on (cut but not very much) and I had far more grip on the rocks. turns out rubber grips rock better then mud. If the drys wont clear mud then a spike will grip rock and roots better just because they shed mud better.

 

[jonKranked]

spikes are really only for when there's buttloads of mudd.

there are tires that exist in between normal tires and spikes.

swamp things...

 

[4130biker]

PNW wetscreams are sweet on the loamy and steepest stuff, I'd say that's about it. This thread is making me want to try cutting my wetscreams for an intermediate for winter riding. One of my buddies put it best, for me: IF they spike can sink all the way in, they are great, otherwise don't use them. That's what I go by, and the portion of hardpack, rocks, roots vs. loam/mud on a given ride- it's got to be a lot of the latter for me to use them.

 

[4130biker]

Demo9- it sounds to me like you would probably benefit more from hillbillys where you're at.

 

[demo 9]

^ that does look pretty good, I will have to try them, but i couldnt help but wonder why i see an abundance of monster spike tires on rocks and roots, guess it isnt just me

 

[jonKranked]

PNW wetscreams are sweet on the loamy and steepest stuff, I'd say that's about it. This thread is making me want to try cutting my wetscreams for an intermediate for winter riding. One of my buddies put it best, for me: IF they spike can sink all the way in, they are great, otherwise don't use them. That's what I go by, and the portion of hardpack, rocks, roots vs. loam/mud on a given ride- it's got to be a lot of the latter for me to use them.

you're buddy gave you some good advice.

mt snow is about the only place on the east coast that i'd considering running wet screams, and even then it'd depend on the course.

 

[Carcinogen]

I've pretty much put the Wet Screams away and never touch them anymore. I use Black Turtles in the winter in Washington. They seem to grab rock(the little we have on our trail) and roots(lots of em) well. Braking isn't an issue either. They also roll tons faster than Wet Screams. I am going to pick up a set of the Specialized Storm/HillBilly tires to see if they will be a fair compromise. Spikes in Washington for just about everyone in my area go on in November and come off in February/March.

Yep... Although I run Dirty Dans

 

[blackohio]

I really liked the rain king in last weekends slightly damp/greasy conditions.

 

[EVIL JN]

Personally i love cut spikes for most conditions except when its proper hardpacked. But as long as the ground has any softness to it cut spikes feels really good imo. They definetly struggle more over big bedrock sections though but as long as you go as straight as possible it works well enough.

On more thing thats good about running cut spikes is that you can always keep a pair that is uncut for those rare occations without feeling that they are an unnecessary investment.

 

[Rhubarb]

Lovin my Swampthings. I was concerned about running full spikes last year due to alot of hard pack trails and not wanting to change tires. I went with Swampthings and seemed great on pretty much all trails on the island. Went back to messing with DHF, HR, MM and BBs when things dried up. The issue is as soon as there is some rain the hard pack gets really greasy due to high clay content. In SOuth Africa this is no issue because of the high quatinty of sand in the ground.
I find the open pattern of the Swampthing and shortish square knobs can penetrate the hard pack when its damp. It still rolls fast enough, brakes well and handles dry hard pack sufficiently so I dont have to swap tires. We had 1 long dry spell this year but the intermitant rain the last few months has me on Swampthngs full time.

They shed mud on my only loamy trail but mud shedding is not the main reason I am running these things.

 

[Pslide]

The only people who run swampthings are people who've never tried a cut spike.

I certainly never looked back after trying cut spikes.

 

[manhattanprjkt83]

how much riding are you guys getting out of a cut wetscream?

I have a set of fresh wetscreams that i purchsed last winter for use in the spring, turns out our conditions shaped up very nicely early and i went straight to dhf's for spring riding. I am trying to decifer how much of the 'cut spike' hype is due to functionality vs. the 'hey world cup guys do it' type of attitude.

To me they do seem very condition specific, not sure i could see myself riding a spike (cut or uncut) for general riding out here on the east coast.

We do have this crazy 10 stage enduro race coming up in december here in Pittsburgh, which prides itself on discusting conditions. I am planning to run the screams for that race in non cut configuration for the mud/water/snow conditions.

 

[Pslide]

I used cut spikes a lot more when I lived in the UK. They are awesome for those conditions.

Since I moved back, I've only raced two times and both were dry, so did not warrant a cut spike. So I have not used my cut spikes at all.

I probably would have run them had I been racing Nationals this year.

Also, there are two levels of cut spikes:

State 1 Cut: Just cut center knobs - this is for wet and mud when you don't need a full spike
Stage 2 Cut: Cut both center and shoulder knobs - this is for all types of softer conditions, wet or dry

My spikes are currently stage 1 because I want to have them available for a muddy race. If I did the Stage 2 cut, then I would ride them in a lot more conditions. But I know once I do that cut, there will be a muddy race!

 

[iRider]

The only people who run swampthings are people who've never tried a cut spike.

I certainly never looked back after trying cut spikes.

I tried both and run both. They have advantages/disadvantages in different areas IMO.

 

[Pslide]

I tried both and run both. They have advantages/disadvantages in different areas IMO.

I could see the Swampthing having a slight advantage if there were a lot of rock, but apart from that I really don't get on with it. Profile is too round for my taste. They do grip in a lot of conditions, but they don't hold a corner or off camber like I cut spike in my opinion.

And I haven't seen a pro run a Swampthing in...well...ever.

 

[iRider]

I could see the Swampthing having a slight advantage if there were a lot of rock, but apart from that I really don't get on with it. Profile is too round for my taste. They do grip in a lot of conditions, but they don't hold a corner or off camber like I cut spike in my opinion.

And I haven't seen a pro run a Swampthing in...well...ever.

First, I don't really care what works for pros. I am waaaay slower then them and so I have to figure out what works for me.

This is what works for me:

super sloppy -> Wetscream

wet, greasy with few rocks and roots, with off cambers and grass OR dry and deep moon dust -> cut Wetscream

wet, greasy in some places but with rocks, roots, no grass; also in snow -> Swampthing

And you are right, Swampthing is not as "edgy" as cut WS.

 

[jonKranked]

I could see the Swampthing having a slight advantage if there were a lot of rock, but apart from that I really don't get on with it. Profile is too round for my taste. They do grip in a lot of conditions, but they don't hold a corner or off camber like I cut spike in my opinion.

And I haven't seen a pro run a Swampthing in...well...ever.

i initially thought the profile of the tire was a little wonky too... but then i actually rode the tire.

 

[Rhubarb]

I agree the profile is pretty round. I was also surprised by the low volume but I seem to have adjusted to this. They do grip rocks nicely.
I also agree to the cornering characteristics and off camber abilities. I feel like I need just a touch more on side knob bite on the front. For next year I have been thinking of a cut spike or a tire with a little more spike than the swampthing but probably just up front.

 

[d.tate]

I bought a bunch of swamp things a couple years ago from jensonusa when they were on sale for 20 bucks. I really liked them at snowshoe. Especially on a race day after a night of rain. They seemed to work best when the course began to tack up. I used them for practice at nationals at beech mountain and they were awful. I couldn't stay upright on the off camber slopes at all. I switched to hillbillies for my race run and wow what a difference. The square edge of the hb tires worked much better than the rounded edges of the swpthings. I think the hillbillies are prob the better all round option.

 

[Optimax150]

I noticed that with swampthings also, the tractions is better when the dirt starts firming up. If it's sloppy I notice they start sliding more, but a cut wetscream grips better for those conditions.

 

[boogenman]

Swamp things can be your best friend at platty if the conditions are right and the track is right. Platty is a place where rolling resistance is rarely going to win or lose a race, when I raced i always packed a set of 2.5 swamp things in case it got moist.

2.35 swamp things and the old 2.2 wet screams are overkill for platty except one or two times in my ten years racing there. Mount snow is a different story