[Serial Midget]

Come ride with me for 60 miles... :eviltongu In order to average 19 you have to be pedaling 20 to 22 MPH for 90% of the time. :evil:

cool ok here's a typical mt. trail ride (mt. bike 5 hrs.) 4896
here's a day at work (general construction 7 hrs.) 4435

Here's a road ride i do before i get too bored....
(bicycling 15 to 20 4 hrs) 5530

i call b.s., i know my body pretty damn good, i take my road bike for a spin for i dunno 60+/- miles with hills and i feel pretty tired, but mostly it's just lungs, i come home from work and cummutivally i feel pretty fatigued as well, but i get home from a mt. epic, climbing forest roads then bombing down technical singletrack, i'm beat dead, my body is begging for energy and rest.

 

[Serial Midget]

is that why we are always waiting in the trail for you?

'cept for that time we went up the giant volcano, of course. that was just one giant hill climb.

Anytime you want to race UP a hill - you just let me know. :evil:

 

[Serial Midget]

SM - I guess you take it easy When I use to have one of those silly Polar things when I was younger, I always got higher rates while mountain biking. The highest I ever averaged on a mtb ride was 1200 calories/hr. The highest I ever averaged on a road ride was under 1000 calories/hr. This is measured and estimated using my actual measured heartrate, age, and weight on the polar device in Ithaca, NY (which is hilly on both the trails and road).

My range for climbing on a mountain bike will be as high a 193 on my HRM, on the road bike I seldom get past 180 - the key is that 95% of my workout on the road bike is in the target zone of 163 to 173, with mountain biking you have many periods of rest and recovery that you don't get road biking - my overall average HR for the same period of time is much less.

I do know that if MTB was better for cardio training then all the big dogs would be doing that instead of road work.

 

[SkaredShtles]

<snip> with mountain biking you have many periods of rest and recovery that you don't get road biking.

You do? Damn........ I don't. Seems once I've reached the top then I'm bustin' my ass down the hill trying to avoid trees, hop rocks, etc. Of course, aerobically, maybe this is easier than climbing.

My heart rate stays up high, but I suspect it's because I'm SkaredShtles most of the time.

-S.S.-

 

[reflux]

That was a cut and paste from the links provided but i've been trying to learn more about my body and how it works and this is one of those topics.

I guess i would agree with your statement in a general manor.

i would also like to add that i sometimes do my normal weekly road workout on my mtb at the same pace as when on the road bike and my avg heart rate is higher.

Interesting about the heart rate. The extent of my hr testing is when I check my pulse randomly on a ride. When I'm tired on a mountain bike I'll check my and I'm often surprised as to how low my hr is. Oh well, guess I'm not trying hard enough.

The body/nutrition really is fascinating, I'm a little disappointed a didn't learn more about it in college--that and there were mostly girls in each class. I'd love to do more reading on the body if you know of anything decent, but I probably won't get around to it for another year or so.

 

[Serial Midget]

You're forgetting one thing, wind resistance. The wind resistance encountered mountain biking is in no way comparable to what you'll ride through on a road ride. Sure, the dirt causes a lot, but we're also riding at much, much slower speeds than we would be on a road bike. Not counting race situations, your heart rate will likely be higher during a road ride than a typical mountain ride, as has already been stated a bunch a times. After all, why is there so much emphasis on your HR when training?

Wind resistance is big... BIG!

 

[Serial Midget]

You do? Damn........ I don't. Seems once I've reached the top then I'm bustin' my ass down the hill trying to avoid trees, hop rocks, etc. Of course, aerobically, maybe this is easier than climbing.

My heart rate stays up high, but I suspect it's because I'm SkaredShtles most of the time.

-S.S.-

It's a well know fact that I am ALWAYS the last one to mince my way down a trail... I think I climb faster than I descend.

 

[reflux]

Wind resistance is big... BIG!

I was told a bunch of years ago that drafting will increase your efficiency by 30%. Any idea of that's accurate?

 

[syadasti]

The big dogs don't do mtb cause the chance of injury from mountain is significantly higher than road biking. Can't race/win if you are injuried...

 

[Serial Midget]

The big dogs don't do mtb cause the chance of injury from mountain is significantly higher than road biking. Can't race/win if you are injuried...

I think you might have your facts wrong about the risk of injury - road crashes are not uncommon... and I wasn't talking about road bikers training on the trails - I was talking about mountain bike racers training on the road.

 

[syadasti]

I was talking about top MTB racers - DH and XC...

 

[Serial Midget]

I was told a bunch of years ago that drafting will increase your efficiency by 30%. Any idea of that's accurate?

30% seems a bit high but yes - drafting allows the whole pack to move much faster than any single rider can on their own. When I give stats about my time and speed I am careful to mention weather I drafted or not. Aero bars are another huge benifit in windy conditions - I'd estimate that at about 10%.

 

[Serial Midget]

I was talking about top MTB racers - DH and XC...

Many, if not most, of the top riders do a significant amount of their cardio training on the road.

 

[syadasti]

And they do that instead of on the DH course or XC cause chance of injury is greater on mtbs, plus the target heart rate zone is easier to maintain on smooth consistent terrain.

 

[Serial Midget]

And they do that instead of on the DH course or XC cause chance of injury is greater on mtbs, plus the target heart rate zone is easier to maintain on smooth consistent terrain.

OK then, I didn't understand that that was what you meant. Now were back to the original question, which burns more calories? Road biking or mountain biking - it seems PNJ only sees fat road bikers, why is this?

 

[blue]

And they do that instead of on the DH course or XC cause chance of injury is greater on mtbs, plus the target heart rate zone is easier to maintain on smooth consistent terrain.

My most brutal non-race wrecks have been on a roadie, when MTBing you have so much softer stuff to land on

 

[The Toninator]

Interesting about the heart rate. The extent of my hr testing is when I check my pulse randomly on a ride. When I'm tired on a mountain bike I'll check my and I'm often surprised as to how low my hr is. Oh well, guess I'm not trying hard enough.

The body/nutrition really is fascinating, I'm a little disappointed a didn't learn more about it in college--that and there were mostly girls in each class. I'd love to do more reading on the body if you know of anything decent, but I probably won't get around to it for another year or so.

yea the bodys weird. being tired doesnt necessarly mean your at your max hr. i'm learning a LOT about that right now being in a peirod of 'over training' of which i recently didnt really believe in or have a complete understanding of.
that SM really knows a lot too. he's a good source.
training for endurance stuff over the last year has really thought me a lot about what i can and cant do.

 

[pnj]

OK then, I didn't understand that that was what you meant. Now were back to the original question, which burns more calories? Road biking or mountain biking - it seems PNJ only sees fat road bikers, why is this?

see, there is NO WAY this would be at four pages if I put it in the correct area.


maybe I just remember the fat ones because the non-fat ones go by so fast.... ink:

 

[The Toninator]

30% seems a bit high but yes - drafting allows the whole pack to move much faster than any single rider can on their own. When I give stats about my time and speed I am careful to mention weather I drafted or not. Aero bars are another huge benifit in windy conditions - I'd estimate that at about 10%.

from what i've heard quoted it acutally is 25 to 30%. i know i was in a pace line the other night barely in a my zone then when i poped out to pull i was maxed.
also the number for aerobars i heard was 45 seconds faster in a 40k tt.

 

[The Toninator]

My most brutal non-race wrecks have been on a roadie, when MTBing you have so much softer stuff to land on

and HOW! i fractured my pelvis last year on a training 'fun' road ride. this was just shortly after the wreck the bruise go way worse. oh and i didnt have a digital camera at the time its a video capture still sorry for the quility.

 

[Silver]

Put every mountain biker into lycra and every roadie into a t-shirt and I'd bet you would start noticing all the bellies on the moutain bikers...

As for the original question, who knows? Hills, trail conditions and drafting have such huge effects on a ride...

 

[Serial Midget]

from what i've heard quoted it acutally is 25 to 30%. i know i was in a pace line the other night barely in a my zone then when i poped out to pull i was maxed.
also the number for aerobars i heard was 45 seconds faster in a 40k tt.

I have heard that too - I was just going on how I ride. If I have a headwind the aero bars are a much bigger benifit speed wise.

 

[syadasti]

http://www.caloriesperhour.com

Male 25, 6', 150 lb BMI=20.3 RMR=1,703
Sexual Activity - vigorous
102 calories in 1 hr
Bookbinding
156 calories in 1 hr
Bicycling - 12-13.9 mph (moderate)
544 calories in 1 hr
Skiing - cross-country, 4-4.9 mph (moderate)
544 calories in 1 hr
Mountain Biking
578 calories in 1 hr
Bicycling - 14-15.9 mph (vigorous)
680 calories in 1 hr
Bicycling - over 20 mph (racing)
1,089 calories in 1 hr
Skiing - cross-country, uphill (maximum)
1,123 calories in 1 hr

Get all the data at once: http://www.primusweb.com/cgi-bin/fpc/actcalc.pl

Note the lack of any distinction for speed in mountain biking - average mountain bike does burn more calories than average/moderate road biking. Be sure to take up bookbinding instead of sex if you need to burn off those extra calories


http://www.adventuresportsmagazine.com/fyi/pedals.htm 24 hr racer mtb calories...

Eatough estimates he burns about 700 calories an hour in a 24-hour race and only eats enough to replace about 500 of that, meaning he’s burning fat reserves as well.

So he burns on average the same as road biking at 16 mph but sustains it for 24 hrs!

 

[Serial Midget]

So he burns on average the same as road biking at 16 mph but sustains it for 24 hrs!

OK - now that we are comparining elite 24 hour endurance racers to your average cyclcist why not compare this to 12 hours of the Toud de France?

Our man Lance burns about 6,200 calories during the average race portion of each day, not sure how long the average race is though the total calories burned for the whole tour arein excess of 100,000 for the average racer.

 

[The Toninator]

i burn between 600 nad700 k/cals an hour during 12 hour evens (SOLO) but i dont have any data for 24s yet. that number goes up a bit for regular sport norba races. for those i avg 900 to 1000 k/cals per hour and a full race avg hr (decent race) of about 180/183. My max hr is 200 so i can avg at or just over 90% hrm. that's well above my Lt.

 

[Skookum]

Reading all this crap makes me hungry i'm gonna go grab a Snickers.

 

[syadasti]

OK - now that we are comparining elite 24 hour endurance racers to your average cyclcist why not compare this to 12 hours of the Toud de France?

Our man Lance burns about 6,200 calories during the average race portion of each day, not sure how long the average race is though the total calories burned for the whole tour arein excess of 100,000 for the average racer.

Ok but in 24 hrs he leaves Lances in the dust for calories burned at 16800 over the course of one day...

Ultra-endurance athletes burn so many calories they start loosing significant muscle mass during the race as the body starts using protein for energy when there is nothing else left...

Lance came in 5th at VT Nationals in the XC (ie dirt road) race a few years ago...

 

[Serial Midget]

OK so your whole point is that roadies are wimps and mountain bikers are the only ones truly getting a workout? I still think the TDF is more grueling than any single 24 hour cycling event period.

Anyhow - your racer was gauged on calories burned for a 24 hour period. Lance's was based on on an average race event - not an entire 24 hour period where the body continued to metabolize massive amounts of energy. I don't have the facts with me but I would guess that if you took the single longest TDF event and figured in the calories burned for the entire 24 period them maybe our boy Lance's efforts wouldn't seem so pale to you.

 

[syadasti]

OK so your whole point is that roadies are wimps and mountain bikers are the only ones truly getting a workout? I still think the TDF is more grueling than any single 24 hour cycling event period.

Anyhow - your racer was gauged on calories burned for a 24 hour period. Lance's was based on on an average race event - not an entire 24 hour period where the body continued to metabolize massive amounts of energy. I don't have the facts with me but I would guess that if you took the single longest TDF event and figured in the calories burned for the entire 24 period them maybe our boy Lance's efforts wouldn't seem so pale to you.

Actually, I was thinking this thread is called "what burns more calories? mtn. or road?"

I assume you think that cause I never said that or suggested either group was wimps, just that one burns more calories as asked... Sorry you feel that way :eviltongu

You can't just add a bunch of events spaced out into one event - thats about the most retarded thing I've ever heard. Ultra-endurance athletes use a different training regime than Lance and are a different type of athlete.

If you put Tinker in the TDF, he wouldn't beat Lance and vice versa - if you say otherwise you are smoking cracking. The fact still is that they burn more calories in a single day than any other athlete does during a single day...

 

[syadasti]

Ok I looked around and found 3-4 iterations of this calculation, so you can say mountain biking, with all other factors equal, burns more calories with the given possible variables:

#this program calculates the number of calories consumed per mile travelled on
#a bicycle. based on a program by ken roberts of columbia university.
#peter chen, 1995

E=0.249 #efficiency of human in cycling
T=0.95 #transmission efficiency of bicycle drivetrain
A1=0.0 #linear coefficient of air resistance
C_a=0.9 #Air resistance coefficient
BM_rate=1.4 #Basal Metabolism rate [Watts/kg body weight]
G=0.00 #grade of the hill (vertical_rise/odometer_distance)
HEAD=0.0 #velocity of headwind [miles/hour]
CROSS=1 #should take into account a true angelular speed
SPEED=12.0 #MPH
TF=60 #temperature in F
WM=30 #weight of bicycle (lb)
WC=165 #weight of cyclist (lb)
AC=0.4925155 #frontal area (m^2) for upright
#0.4297982 crouch 0.3080527 racing 0.1844627 in pack
R=0.012 #rolling friction, mountain bike tires
#0.004 racing slick 0.0051 27x1.25

Mountain biking burns more calories because rolling friction of a mountain bike is 3 times higher, weight is higher, frontal area is higher (mountain biking position isn't tucked in/optimal, especially in technical riding), and transmission efficiency of bicycle drivetrain is lower on a triple ring bike with inferior chainline and dirtier mountain bike drivetrain.

Here are a few of the ones I found, all pretty similiar
http://www.grennan.com/BikePower/bikepower.c
http://www.mystrobl.de/ws/fahrrad/files/bike_pwr.c.txt

 

[Serial Midget]

Not buying it - the data in the links you posted in no way validate the statements you make... <lights crack pipe>

Fisrt off if you are going by calories burned per mile I would totally agree - per mile mountian biking burns more calories than road biking. If you are going by time in the saddle with the legs a spinning then I am going to have to go with road biking simply because of the constant high output you are able to maintain.

Sure under certain very narrow circumstances certain mtn bikers may burn more calories than their inferior roadie cousins but over the spectrum of the general population I would say that (physically) most roadies push themselves harder than most mountain bikers.

Most of the mountain bikers I know are pretty laid back about the trail - they bomb down the fun stuff fast and pay their dues on the climbs with plenty of rest stops along the way.

Most of the road bikers I know are balls to the wall most of the time - hammering up down and sideways trying to go as fast as they can at all times. Totally different mentality -

 

[syadasti]

You still are arguing the wrong point though. The question is which activity burns the most calories - not which athlete, which culture, which event, or which mindset is best...

Physics says that all things equal, the mountain bike requires more energy - more of your energy will be required to go x mph. An athlete with the same skill level in both sports will expend more energy going x mph or traveling x miles on a mountain bike. So, the answer is mountain biking burns more calories.

If a mountain bike was a more efficient machine that required less energy to operate/hr, road bikers would be riding them on the road instead, but they are not and they don't...

Going off topic, mountain biking also requires/works more of the whole body, so you won't just have huge legs...

 

[Skookum]

HEY SERIAL MIDGET YOU ARE CORDIALLY INVITED TO A GOOD OLE FASHUNED MT. BIKE EPIC AT RANGER CREEK IN GREENWATER WASHINGTON, YOU'LL GET TO TEST YOUR THEORIES ON CALORIE BURNING. A HILL THAT PUNISHES ALL MUUUAAAHHH HAHAHAHAHA!!!!
can you say 3000ft. plus in 6 miles

lemme know bro, as always, i guarantee good times.

 

[SkaredShtles]

<snip> A HILL THAT PUNISHES ALL MUUUAAAHHH HAHAHAHAHA!!!!
can you say 3000ft. plus in 6 miles

Wow. You guys get SIX miles to go 3000 feet?? Lucky dawgs. Sounds like a pretty easy grade...........

-S.S.-

 

[Skookum]

Wow. You guys get SIX miles to go 3000 feet?? Lucky dawgs. Sounds like a pretty easy grade...........

-S.S.-

Come on over and you can ride up the trail if you want. Bout 4 miles, cuts off those 2 extra miles just for people from Colorado.

 

[syadasti]

The worst climb I've hit was at Crystal Mtn, WA in 96. I rented a Kona Stinky with a Super-T cause I figured the lift would go to the top. The lift only went up about 600 feet vertical or so and then if you wanted to ride from the top you had to climb a switchbacking fireroad that was less than 2 miles long and went up 2500 ft from where the mtb lift stopped. I gave up after a mile or so riding that pig and pushed the rest of the way. It paid off though cause I met a local who rode up the back way to the top and knew an awesome trail down the ridge to some nice super long switchbacks down the 3000+ feet of elevation climbed to the bottom of the hill

 

[Skookum]

The worst climb I've hit was at Crystal Mtn, WA in 96. I rented a Kona Stinky with a Super-T cause I figured the lift would go to the top. The lift only went up about 600 feet vertical or so and then if you wanted to ride from the top you had to climb a switchbacking fireroad that was less than 2 miles long and went up 2500 ft from where the mtb lift stopped. I gave up after a mile or so riding that pig and pushed the rest of the way. It paid off though cause I met a local who rode up the back way to the top and knew an awesome trail down the ridge to some nice super long switchbacks down the 3000+ feet of elevation climbed to the bottom of the hill

Yes i know the trail. There is a singletrack that slowly creeps up to the left of where you, what i refer to as "Skrogged", or pushed your bikey up. What a payoff view at the top though eh? And the singletrack descent is pretty rippin too, but "Ranger" is better imo, and just down the road.
Yah they don't have lift service at Crystal or at Snoqualmie Pass anymore... Really sucks because there are quality bastard DH trails at Snoqaulmie and there is SOOOOO much untapped potential at Crystal...... Everyone around here drives the 5 hour drive to Whistler nowadays.

 

[syadasti]

Yeah before Crystal, I went to Whistler that year and also rented a Stinky, just before the place blew up in popularity. They had the lame excuse there that there was too much snow on the top to ride from the top even if you wanted to climb/push, but there wasn't too much snow on the trails if you took the hiker lift to the top. They are finally opening the top up - hope to go back there someday...

 

[pnj]

.. <lights crack pipe>

pass that sh1t this way, bro!

:evil:

 

[Serial Midget]

Ignoring you as best as I can and still smoking crack. :evil:

HEY SERIAL MIDGET YOU ARE CORDIALLY INVITED TO A GOOD OLE FASHUNED MT. BIKE EPIC AT RANGER CREEK IN GREENWATER WASHINGTON, YOU'LL GET TO TEST YOUR THEORIES ON CALORIE BURNING. A HILL THAT PUNISHES ALL MUUUAAAHHH HAHAHAHAHA!!!!
can you say 3000ft. plus in 6 miles

lemme know bro, as always, i guarantee good times.