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What do you guys think of this?

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,180
17
TN
Under the Sun
Cynthia OI
Military in isles behaves like an unwanted guest
Wednesday, March 17, 2004




HERE'S a scenario: People knock on the door one day and ask if they can use your backyard for a community get-together. The gathering will be a time for neighbors to get to know each other, organize, say, a watch group to keep the area safe from criminals and talk about common problems and solutions.
Your backyard is lovely, a place to sit and look at the sky and enjoy the calls of birds. The thought of scores of feet tramping around the trees and shrubs is disturbing, but you recognize the value of the meeting, the benefits people will derive from it. You say OK. After all, everyone has promised to be mindful of the pilo bushes and maile vines.

So the meeting is arranged, people come and go. In their wake, they leave trash, upturned soil and ravaged vines where fragrant leaves once flourished.

Later, when the land and plants are healing, the people again approach you. Another session is needed and since you were so kind as to provide your yard before, would you do it once more? You tell them the backyard is all buss' up. Then how about the front yard, they ask? Burned once, you are reluctant. But it's for the good of the community, they say. You yield.

When the people are gone, the front yard lies in ruin. This time, the damage is so extensive, the land is unsafe. You ask the people to fix it. They say they don't have enough money for restoration, but they can put up a fence so that no one gets hurt.

Next thing you know, the same people are knocking on doors down the block or around the corner, seeking to use someone else's land. So it will go -- until someone says no.

It may be time now for Hawaii to say no. No to further destruction of our land, no to unexploded bombs and pollution from chemicals they contain, no to damage of remaining habitats for rare and endangered birds and plant life, no to the arbitrary military disposition to run over forests, plains and hills then abandon them when they are made unsafe for more drills.

Last week, the Marine Corps announced that it will fence off 187 acres of Oahu's Waikane Valley because more than three decades of use as a live-fire range has left it too dangerous for further exercises. Without money -- actually, the will -- to find and remove the unexploded grenades, rockets and mortars, the most the Marines can do is put up barriers to keep people out.

On the Big Island, the federal government is finally getting around to clearing away World War II-era explosives from 123,000 acres near Waikoloa Village where close to 5,000 people live. Old bombs and munitions are so common at the former training ground that kids at an elementary school are given lessons about staying away from such objects and magnetic lists of warnings to fix on refrigerators at home. The danger is real; at least five people have been killed by mortar rounds or grenades accidentally triggered.

Yet, military forces are knocking on our doors again, asking to let them fire howitzers and bullets, to drive over the contours between Mauna Kea and Mauna Loa with 19-ton armored vehicles. (They don't really need to ask, but are going through the motions anyway.)

Politicians in Washington say we should be grateful; the military will bring money to the islands in trade. They say we must sacrifice the land for the greater good of America, that without training, soldiers won't be prepared to fight our enemies.

Training is good. Training is necessary. But maybe it should be done somewhere else, where the land, plants and animals aren't so sensitive. Why Hawaii? Because we're far away -- out of sight and out of mind -- and because the perception of the islands as territorial possession rather than state prevails.

If the military wants to wreak havoc on Hawaiian soil, it should first have the money and a realistic plan to clean up the mess before it takes its tanks and goes elsewhere. Otherwise, it can keep the so-called economic benefits it says its presence metes out. We'll pass on the deal.
 

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,022
3
Denver
what do we think of what? There doesn't seem much to debate.

I think this says it all...
If the military wants to wreak havoc on Hawaiian soil, it should first have the money and a realistic plan to clean up the mess before it takes its tanks and goes elsewhere. Otherwise, it can keep the so-called economic benefits it says its presence metes out. We'll pass on the deal.
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,180
17
TN
Sure, use our resturants and local businesses, but dont train here train somewhere else. "NOT IN MY BACK YARD"
The fact of the matter is, the DoD spends more to protect the environment than anyone. Is it any wonder that the endangered species always seem to be on military land? Its no coincidence, I'll tell you that.
If the military didnt set aside the land for training, there'd be condos there. The fact of the matter is, we need to train...and we do make a mess. There comes a point that its no longer possible to clean up or further train in an area, especially if its filled with ordnance from 50 years ago. And even if you do move your training somewhere else, its just going to encroach on someone else's land. The area talked about in this article is from World War 2, when we were losing a war and we needed a training area to get things done, yet its written like we used it as an ordnance dump two weeks ago. Today, the standards are much tighter…but no mention is made of this.
Also it says that we train in Hawaii because we don’t see it as a real state, just a territory…which is completely false. We train in Hawaii because of its strategic placement on the globe. If we weren’t training here in WWII, Japanese troops would have been. Today, there are so many servicemen stationed here that training anywhere else but here is simply unreasonable. Flying men to California to do the same things, but just to someone else’s land. But that’s apparently fine to this lady as long as its “NOT IN MY BACK YARD.”
Its just unreasonable.
 

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,022
3
Denver
The military should train in New Mexico.

A. no one cares about NM
2. It'll keep the damned Mexicans from crossing that part of the border!
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,180
17
TN
Originally posted by LordOpie
The military should train in New Mexico.

A. no one cares about NM
2. It'll keep the damned Mexicans from crossing that part of the border!

Im sure you're half joking, but NM really doesnt have alot of what's needed for a good infantry training area.
 

valve bouncer

Master Dildoist
Feb 11, 2002
7,843
114
Japan
Originally posted by LordOpie
The military should train in New Mexico.

A. no one cares about NM
2. It'll keep the damned Mexicans from crossing that part of the border!
3. A stray shell might land on N8's house.
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
Originally posted by LordOpie
The military should train in New Mexico.

A. no one cares about NM
2. It'll keep the damned Mexicans from crossing that part of the border!
Goof ball...

NM has the US Army's White Sands Missle Range, the DoE's Sandia Labs, Los Alamos, Trinity Site, Waste Isolation Pilot Plant, etc...
 

ummbikes

Don't mess with the Santas
Apr 16, 2002
1,794
0
Napavine, Warshington
Originally posted by valve bouncer
3. A stray shell might land on N8's house.
Explain why this would be a negative to training in New Mexico.

:devil:

I kid, I wouldn't want anything to harm N8's house. Or him, I suppose.