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What does a new zee derailleur look like after 3 PNW shuttle days?

Discussion in 'Downhill & Freeride' started by blackohio, Sep 2, 2012.

  1. blackohio

    blackohio Generous jaywalker

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    I'll be taking this into the shop I bought it at so I shouldn't expect much of a hassle with warranty/exchange as they (Universal Cycles) are all good people. This guy might be 30-45 days old at most. I absolutely loved the derailleur up until this last ride when **** got real wonky on the last run. Im guessing the clutch mechanism puts alot of stress on the cages body/assembly. The locked out vibrations have to go somewhere. If you've bought a saint/xtr/zee keep an eye on the body twisting and then snapping where mine did.


    First photo. There is no impact damage what-so-ever to the cage yet its totally tweaked.

















    Here's another interesting photo. See the high set screw, it's totally bent.

     
    #1 -   Sep 2, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2012

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  2. Da Peach

    Da Peach Outwitted by a rodent

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    That screw just bent without an impact ?
     
    #2 -   Sep 2, 2012
  3. blackohio

    blackohio Generous jaywalker

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    I havent hit anything, not that I can recall or nothing notable. I think I just got one with a weak body. The cage I have no idea how it got all weird. The crazy part is the lower cog is straight. The upper is the one thats twisted. When attached to the frame is rolls fine off the lower and hangs/skips on the upper.

    I think the screws bent from the crack in the body there, once it split on the last run or second to last and the cage was bouncing around in hammered the screw crooked.

    Heres some better pics of the cage's lower portion showing no noticeable impact damage.



    -Some slight scratches here to the outer cage portion, in scratches on the inner are where the chain passes through with the tweaked body.



     
    #3 -   Sep 2, 2012
  4. tacubaya

    tacubaya Monkey

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    Need more pics for further evaluation.













    :rofl:
     
    #4 -   Sep 2, 2012
  5. Uncle Cliffy

    Uncle Cliffy Turbo Monkey

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    #5 -   Sep 3, 2012
  6. dhbrigade

    dhbrigade Chimp

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    Looks like a hit to me. The screw limiting the lever movement getting bent and the casting finally cracks.

    "Week body" and "Hammering the screw" :rofl:

    I forgot: Needs some force to bend a cage this way. How would the cage bend? Even with this crack the cage should stay somehow in line as without the crack!!!
     
    #6 -   Sep 3, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2012
  7. no skid marks

    no skid marks Monkey

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    Light, durable, and works well. Pick two.
     
    #7 -   Sep 3, 2012
  8. Vrock

    Vrock Linkage Design Blog

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    Meanwhile in the bike industry....... Nobody gives a **** about Gearboxes anymore, developing a carbon frame is much much much more important.
     
    #8 -   Sep 3, 2012
  9. StyledAirtime

    StyledAirtime Monkey

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    Zerode care.
     
    #9 -   Sep 3, 2012
  10. motomike

    motomike Turbo Monkey

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    The clutch doesn't add more tension, it adds more friction to the system. Did you possibly do a run or two in your big(easy) gear and the chain put the stress on your drivetrain when the suspension compressed?
     
  11. Huck Banzai

    Huck Banzai Turbo Monkey

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    #11 -   Sep 3, 2012
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  12. William42

    William42 fork ways

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    honest question:

    you mean with the new clutch system its possible that you no longer have access to certain gears while riding? because if so, this clutch thing suddenly sounds way less cool.
     
  13. dan-o

    dan-o Turbo Monkey

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  14. motomike

    motomike Turbo Monkey

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    What I was implying was that its possible that his chain could have been a link too short, and when its in the biggest cog and the suspension compresses(unless you have a perfectly verticle axlepath), it would strain the drivetrain because there would be no more room for the derailleur to stretch. Nothing to do with the clutch really. The clutch just adds friction to the cage, calming down movement over rough terrain, it doesn't add any extra tension like a lot of people think.
     
  15. blackohio

    blackohio Generous jaywalker

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    however even looking at the video Neil lays it down derailleur side up. But the derailleur ran perfect all day yesterday and finally shat the bed last run. Not saying it wasnt possibly bent prior to that run just that it failed massively after that. Don't get me wrong here I think the derailleur is fantastic, just never seen one snap like that, I ran my previous saint for 2 years HARD.

    I havent done any big gear runs, in-fact I set the limit in 2 gears and have enough chain so it's not overly tight.

    Also im not some whiny kid complaining about Shimano sucking, if I go back to the shop and they say oh no its bent and that caused it to break, so be it. end of story, i buy a new one. Just found the crack really strange, and i couldn't recall any impacts or crashes that effected the derailleur usage. Post Neils crash I had a full day on the bike with perfect drivetrain action, then finally last run it went to hell right out of the corner. Literally in a split second boom. Could the cage have been tweaked prior and not given me any problems sure, the fact that the screw is bent leads me to believe that the cage had been or developed the crack before and that open area where the screw past through simply deformed more as the screw bent.
     
    #15 -   Sep 3, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2012
  16. Inclag

    Inclag Turbo Monkey

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    "What does a new zee derailleur look like after 3 PNW shuttle days?".... An Evil Revolt?
     
  17. Jeremy R

    Jeremy R <b>x</b>

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    Send it in for warranty and two years from now Shimano will send you a new one made from carbon called the Zee Undead.


    Ha, That sucks man. When I switched to single pivots from FSR, I had issues like that from running my chain too short. Climbing in the easy gear, suspension compresses, pulls my der. into my wheel. Collect $200.
     
  18. blackohio

    blackohio Generous jaywalker

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    OK, correct me if i'm wrong here, shouldnt the upper cog be parellel with the chainline? in fact both cogs be that way. I know this is off the bike and not a perfect way of telling however placing the attachment point on a level (assuming) surface the upper cog should be parallel with that surface (ie the cassette) which in this photo appears to not be, however eyeing the hanger bolt the lower cog looks relatively close while the upper looks off. This is where you guys can easily correct me if I am wrong in my thinking.

    Photobucket appears to be down at the moment so when it comes live i'll post the pics. but the upper cog assembly is at say a 10% angle to the lower and off from the parallel of the hanger bolt.







     
    #18 -   Sep 3, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2012
  19. blackohio

    blackohio Generous jaywalker

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    There is a short pedal up to the ravens trailhead, which requires going up the cassette. Now, someone let me know if this is my problem. I set the derailleur/chain up to be able to shift throughout the entire cassette without the derailleur being pulled too far, then set the upper limit screw in so that the mechanical aspect of the derailleur couldnt go up to the two farthest gears. Would my problem have arisen from here?
     
  20. yetihenry

    yetihenry Monkey

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    Are you saying you blocked off 2 gears then tried to use the anyway to get to a trail head? Why did you bother blocking the 2 gears? Was the limit screw basically bottomed out to do this?

    And I'm willing to be it was tweaked, I've had a Sora mech on my demo this whole season and it's been fine, and a season in whistler isn't light on bikes.
     
  21. blackohio

    blackohio Generous jaywalker

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    Im not saying I forced it over to those gears, just blocked them out as I didnt need them and the pedal to the trail head is relatively easy pedal from the 5th gear over. It can be done seated on the big bike. Most Oregon trails are shuttle and require no more than the first 3 gears at anytime. I guess I figured that setting it up wit hthe correct chainline and length and then simply locking out the two last would ensure I had enough chain for all gears and not over extend the derailleur. Like I said might be wrong there.
     
  22. motomike

    motomike Turbo Monkey

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    Do you have a picture of what the derailleur looked like in the biggest available gear, ie how stretched out it was?
     
  23. blackohio

    blackohio Generous jaywalker

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    yeah, ill throw it back on and take a pic. Had to move pic hosts.

    Here it is on the bike.This is as far as I allowed to to move over with the limit screw.



    These lower ones show how out of line the upper is. AND just so we can clear this up, the rear chainstay scratches came from shuttling yesterday. I think I might have post limit adjustment removed a full link recently.













     
    #23 -   Sep 3, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2012
  24. BrazilianMonkey

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    Formula RO, best brake i ever use, powerfull and good modulation
     
  25. blackohio

    blackohio Generous jaywalker

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    sweet opinion there, but wrong thread.
     
  26. motomike

    motomike Turbo Monkey

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    Ok cool, now with it in the biggest gear, push on your suspension(or even better, take your shock out) and watch how the chain stretches as the suspension compresses.

    Edit: I'm not accusing you of anything, just going off of how your derailleur looks and a similar situation that I had when my chain was a link too short and I destroyed my derailleur from riding it for a run in the biggest cog.
     
    #26 -   Sep 3, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2012
  27. Jeremy R

    Jeremy R <b>x</b>

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    Also, why is your upper roller so far away from your cogs? Do you just need to adjust your b tension or does this work different because of the clutch? I have not gotten my hands on the clutch yet, so I am clueless as to how it works.
     
  28. Sandwich

    Sandwich Pig my fish!
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    and why is 10 speed a good idea, again?
     
  29. Uncle Cliffy

    Uncle Cliffy Turbo Monkey

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    I know right? Having 10 gears instead of 9 TOTALLY snapped his $hit...

    I've got some 9spd Sram I'll sell ya Corey!
     
  30. Sandwich

    Sandwich Pig my fish!
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    good to know that the narrow spacing and tight tolerances of 10 speed had NOTHING to do with a part failure! Awesome e-engineering! Can you e-engineer me a carbon DH bike out of paper tubes next, because they're lighter? They definitely won't fail because you say so!
     
  31. blackohio

    blackohio Generous jaywalker

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    When in the lowest gear you can see how much the upper cog comes up into the driveline. I dont think it works any different. I just set it up as I would any regular derailleur and kept the cog close enough to not slap into the frame and shift smooth.

    So you think it's just a case that too short a chain stressed the der and caused it to break? What would explain how the upper cog is totally out of alignment? same thing? Also theres is no play in the cogs.


    Well to be honest, I had zero intention to go 10-speed. However I wanted to give one of the shadow plus derailleurs a try and at the price of the Zee it seemed worth it to give it a go as opposed to say buying a Saint short cage.
     
  32. canadmos

    canadmos Mater Slayer

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    You can only tell if the chain was too short by removing your shock and cycling the suspension. It looks like that might be what caused the derailluer to get yanked.
     
  33. Uncle Cliffy

    Uncle Cliffy Turbo Monkey

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    Easy now...

    I'm was implying that the subtle differences of a slightly thinner chain and one more cog wouldn't cause that kind of damage. Fair e-speculation?
     
  34. Kntr

    Kntr Turbo Monkey

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  35. blackohio

    blackohio Generous jaywalker

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    I can say with 100% certainty that I never rode it at Ravens (yesterday) that way. Once at the top of the small hill Ravens is all down with a long lead into the first turn then its pumps and small pedals into jumps. However it's been a few years since I've been on a SP bike. If you guys think that was the root cause of the crack and possibly the twist then i'll be sure to set-up the new derailleur differently, it's just something I've never encountered before.
     
  36. Jeremy R

    Jeremy R <b>x</b>

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    That would me my guess as well, and the fact that he had his top two gears locked out probaly helped keep his der. from getting pulled into the wheel.
     
  37. no skid marks

    no skid marks Monkey

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    Same. It's amazing the things people take for granted.

    Hard to tell from the pic, but looks like there was enough spare chain. Perhaps once the limit screw went, the mech got to the next gear and got twisted.
     
    #37 -   Sep 3, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2012
  38. blackohio

    blackohio Generous jaywalker

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    Im baffled about how the upper pulley/der assembly appears to be whets twisted, with the lower seemingly fine and nothing on the derailleur showing signs of twisting (ie stressing of the paint/powder/ano)

    It shifted flawlessly up until yesterdays failure, and had been ridden for 3 shuttle days over the last few weekends.
     
  39. canadmos

    canadmos Mater Slayer

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    Were you shuttling it with other bikes? Maybe someone else's bike bumped it at exactly the right spot before your last run.
     
  40. wiscodh

    wiscodh Monkey

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    he had to put his bike on the outside because our shuttle driver sucks at driving stick and our levers eat each ohers bikes, his is plastic and took 2 years to get so he has special privileges....