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What Fork To Get?

ianjenn

ianjenn

Turbo Monkey
Sep 12, 2006
3,001
704
SLO
Okay, so I managed to have my bike stolen and then I took it back from a dude that looked like SKinny Pete but Dressed like Jesse Pinkman 3 days later. He was a Meth dealer in a town about 10 miles south of me. In that time dildo boy was able to destroy the adjusters on shock and fork and also add a large scratch into the fork stanchions.

I am looking at possibly getting a new fork and shock. I am looking at maybe a Cane Creek, MRP or FOX 38 with X2 on the ass. I am too heavy to run a coil on the 140mm trail bike I believe. What fork should I go with and why? I am lazy as hell and don't like servicing. Also, I know how to set up my suspension and would like more than 8 clicks of HSR-HSC and same with Rebound.

So what is the best out of box deal? Another option is to go with PUSH or Avalanche internal I guess and use the 36 chassis.......
 
englertracing

englertracing

you owe me a sandwich
Mar 5, 2012
1,581
1,076
La Verne
For the fork get a ol 36 with an rc2 (my grip 2 is on the shelf in favor of my rc2 dont buy the bullishit about it being better) then with the money you saved put a smashpot coil spring in there....

Also the x2 is kind of a sucky degressive damper..... i think the air system works fine, but the compression characteristics are truly not great.... and in exchange for dumpy damping you get hsr asjust, which isn't a worthy trade

They did some component location shuffling on the 2021, the layout should prove better in providing more linear compression and rebound damping
 
ianjenn

ianjenn

Turbo Monkey
Sep 12, 2006
3,001
704
SLO
I could go CCDB AIr on the back. Or even the coil version. I can't find a spring calculator for the bike with a coil but I ran a 600LBS on my SMASH when I had it and that was at the upper end of what Fox offered. A modded fork is a possibility. I could just use my current 36 chassis and get an Avalanche Open Bath Kit. I have heard their suspension feels great...

Fox 36 Open Bath Cartridge Kit

Avalanche Downhill Racing gives you a competitive advantage with its long travel shocks and forks. Virtually maintenance free suspension guaranteed.
www.avalanchedownhillracing.com


What about a new fork DVO, Cane Creek? Something that wont make noise and leak oil like its going out of style....
 
englertracing

englertracing

you owe me a sandwich
Mar 5, 2012
1,581
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La Verne
I had the ccdb, I can't recommend that either, same system as the x2 but more primative.
The new x2 is laid out more like an ohlins ttx, the ccdb is like ohlins retarded step child that they put away in an institution.

The avalanche open bath is a great upgrade to the old rebound only cartridges, and the pre inverted rc2 with the internal bladder that frequently fail. But for any fork with a Fit rc2, it's a downgrade.
Plus if you haven't dealt with Craig before ill warn you I think there's something wrong with him.
 
Jeremy R

Jeremy R

<b>x</b>
Nov 15, 2001
9,698
1,053
behind you with a snap pop
I can't comment on other brands but I can tell you this for sure. The new 2021 Fox products are so much better than anything that have ever produced. The new 36 (which has the same internals as the 38) is great right out of the box.
It is the most supple air fork I have ever ridden, and it deals with all impacts better than before. I still have a 40 rc2 to compare it to, but it does not compare at all damping wise.
And the new X2 float is totally different as well. The main thing I notice with it, is that it now makes a more responsive feeling trail shock. My old ones always gave a bit in the mid range if you had it setup right everywhere else. The X2 not only pedals better, but it works great at dealing with all manner bumps from small to large as well. Both of those products are vastly improved from before without a doubt.
 
ianjenn

ianjenn

Turbo Monkey
Sep 12, 2006
3,001
704
SLO
Hmmm okay, I would think if they are replacing the cartridge at FOX it would be with their newest offering. I asked about upgraded from the basic one that is in the fork and he said they could do it for about $150 more. So for them, it would be $340 vs say an Avalanche at $400 or PUSH at $350. So the costs are all very close.
 
HAB

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
11,580
2,006
Seattle
englertracing said:
Intriguing concept, but they only have them for 29" right now.
hopefully they will do a 27.5
Click to expand...
Hope so. A complicating factor is that they appear to be using X-Fusion Trace lower castings, and they don't do a 27.5 one of those either.

1597432604664.png
1597432631757.png


X-Fusion does make the Metric as a 27.5 fork with 36mm stanchions (and a 20mm axle!) but I don't know if the stanchion spacing is the same or not. The lower leg casting is significantly different.
 
jonKranked

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,942
24,512
media blackout
HAB said:
Hope so. A complicating factor is that they appear to be using X-Fusion Trace lower castings, and they don't do a 27.5 one of those either.

View attachment 148675View attachment 148676

X-Fusion does make the Metric as a 27.5 fork with 36mm stanchions (and a 20mm axle!) but I don't know if the stanchion spacing is the same or not. The lower leg casting is significantly different.
Click to expand...
it does make a certain amount of sense for the company as small as EXT to utilize an existing casting from another company, due to the high upfront overhead tooling costs
 
englertracing

englertracing

you owe me a sandwich
Mar 5, 2012
1,581
1,076
La Verne
jonKranked said:
it does make a certain amount of sense for the company as small as EXT to utilize an existing casting from another company, due to the high upfront overhead tooling costs
Click to expand...
Yeah I agree.
Plus that would allow them to focus on things they deemed more important such as friction reduction and the damper
 
ianjenn

ianjenn

Turbo Monkey
Sep 12, 2006
3,001
704
SLO
I may just have FOX do the upgraded damper. I think I am stuck with the shock so let them fully rebuild it as well. Then I am flipping the frame with headset and dropper post. SO at least the shock will be new.
 
englertracing

englertracing

you owe me a sandwich
Mar 5, 2012
1,581
1,076
La Verne
ianjenn said:
I may just have FOX do the upgraded damper. I think I am stuck with the shock so let them fully rebuild it as well. Then I am flipping the frame with headset and dropper post. SO at least the shock will be new.
Click to expand...
again,
the grip 2 isnt exactly a huge upgrade over an RC2 maybe a downgrade, to share more parts with the crap grip.
people hate believing it, but it happens a lot.
 
ZHendo

ZHendo

Turbo Monkey
Oct 29, 2006
1,661
147
PNW
Anybody here riding the Manitou Mezzer yet? Seems really well received by everyone except Pinkbike, and the regular Manitou fanboys on MTBR are shitting themselves over the fact that it may be a real competitor to the 38 and Zeb.

I've got a 2019 36, and for the prices that people are selling those for on PB right now, I'm tempted to offload to try something new
 
HAB

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
11,580
2,006
Seattle
ZHendo said:
Anybody here riding the Manitou Mezzer yet? Seems really well received by everyone except Pinkbike, and the regular Manitou fanboys on MTBR are shitting themselves over the fact that it may be a real competitor to the 38 and Zeb.

I've got a 2019 36, and for the prices that people are selling those for on PB right now, I'm tempted to offload to try something new
Click to expand...
Yep, and a bunch of time on a Zeb Ultimate too.

Cliff notes:
  • The IRT spring is cool. Midstroke support is really good, which is the main benefit. It's more fiddly to set up, and pretty sensitive to pressure changes, but if you keep it adjusted it's sweet.
  • If you set it up to maximize the midstroke support, as I've been largely inclined to do, small bump sensitivity does suffer a little. Can't quite have your cake and eat it too, which makes sense really. Running a smaller difference in pressure between the two chambers makes it less ramp-y in the midstroke, which trims some of the supportiveness on steep stuff, but also makes it feel better on high speed chatter.
  • The damper's pretty good. Fairly standard bladder design a-la Fox RC2 or RS Charger 2.1 (albeit with a HBO circuit added on), but implemented reasonably well.
  • Mezzer definitely isn't as stiff as the Zeb, especially torsionally, but it's also ~200g lighter. It's for sure stiffer than a 36 though.
 
ZHendo

ZHendo

Turbo Monkey
Oct 29, 2006
1,661
147
PNW
HAB said:
Yep, and a bunch of time on a Zeb Ultimate too.

Cliff notes:
  • The IRT spring is cool. Midstroke support is really good, which is the main benefit. It's more fiddly to set up, and pretty sensitive to pressure changes, but if you keep it adjusted it's sweet.
  • If you set it up to maximize the midstroke support, as I've been largely inclined to do, small bump sensitivity does suffer a little. Can't quite have your cake and eat it too, which makes sense really. Running a smaller difference in pressure between the two chambers makes it less ramp-y in the midstroke, which trims some of the supportiveness on steep stuff, but also makes it feel better on high speed chatter.
  • The damper's pretty good. Fairly standard bladder design a-la Fox RC2 or RS Charger 2.1 (albeit with a HBO circuit added on), but implemented reasonably well.
  • Mezzer definitely isn't as stiff as the Zeb, especially torsionally, but it's also ~200g lighter. It's for sure stiffer than a 36 though.
Click to expand...
Super helpful. Any real-world feedback on the Zeb aside from the stiffness? I'm interested in that too, but considering its the same guts as a Lyrik just applied to a new chassis, I keep wondering if the orgasm-laden media reviews are true. I'm weighing the Zeb, Lyrik and Mezzer as potential options for my Titan, but I'm not the biggest guy (about 160 lbs) so wondering if the Zeb/38 stiffness is worth is the 1/2lb weight gain.

My 36 GRIP2, somehow manages to alternate between feeling pretty good and feeling really harsh, often with no differences in adjustment, and considering I just did a lowers service 10 rides ago I'm getting pretty annoyed.
 
djjohnr

djjohnr

Turbo Monkey
Apr 21, 2002
3,017
1,719
Northern California
ZHendo said:
Super helpful. Any real-world feedback on the Zeb aside from the stiffness? I'm interested in that too, but considering its the same guts as a Lyrik just applied to a new chassis, I keep wondering if the orgasm-laden media reviews are true. I'm weighing the Zeb, Lyrik and Mezzer as potential options for my Titan, but I'm not the biggest guy (about 160 lbs) so wondering if the Zeb/38 stiffness is worth is the 1/2lb weight gain.
Click to expand...
One review I read recently stated that the while the Zeb is stiffer than the Lyrik it resulted in more hand pain on the same run. While my Boxxer is noticeably stiffer than my 180mm Lyrik (I weigh 185), I've never thought "gee I wish this thing was stiffer" when riding the Lyrik.
 
jonKranked

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,942
24,512
media blackout
HAB said:
Yep, and a bunch of time on a Zeb Ultimate too.

Cliff notes:
  • The IRT spring is cool. Midstroke support is really good, which is the main benefit. It's more fiddly to set up, and pretty sensitive to pressure changes, but if you keep it adjusted it's sweet.
  • If you set it up to maximize the midstroke support, as I've been largely inclined to do, small bump sensitivity does suffer a little. Can't quite have your cake and eat it too, which makes sense really. Running a smaller difference in pressure between the two chambers makes it less ramp-y in the midstroke, which trims some of the supportiveness on steep stuff, but also makes it feel better on high speed chatter.
  • The damper's pretty good. Fairly standard bladder design a-la Fox RC2 or RS Charger 2.1 (albeit with a HBO circuit added on), but implemented reasonably well.
  • Mezzer definitely isn't as stiff as the Zeb, especially torsionally, but it's also ~200g lighter. It's for sure stiffer than a 36 though.
Click to expand...
i've got the IRT in my mattoc, and agree w/ HAB's analysis of it.

its essentially a dual rate air spring. EXT is using the same concept on the air spring in their fork. I remember cane creek discussing exploring using it, but they decided most people would find it too complicated (translation: too impatient to take the time to fine tune it to really get the benefit out of it).
 
HAB

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
11,580
2,006
Seattle
ZHendo said:
Super helpful. Any real-world feedback on the Zeb aside from the stiffness? I'm interested in that too, but considering its the same guts as a Lyrik just applied to a new chassis, I keep wondering if the orgasm-laden media reviews are true. I'm weighing the Zeb, Lyrik and Mezzer as potential options for my Titan, but I'm not the biggest guy (about 160 lbs) so wondering if the Zeb/38 stiffness is worth is the 1/2lb weight gain.

My 36 GRIP2, somehow manages to alternate between feeling pretty good and feeling really harsh, often with no differences in adjustment, and considering I just did a lowers service 10 rides ago I'm getting pretty annoyed.
Click to expand...
Yeah, it feels like a stiffer Lyrik. Which is a pretty good fork. I do think the C1 air spring with the smaller negative spring was a step backwards though. It's just a bit more wallowy through the mid stroke. I like the chassis a lot, the damper is good, the air spring is fine but could be better.
 
Jm_

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
18,995
9,652
AK
Getting more time on the B1, I notice the slight improvement off the top, it's not huge, but I notice it. I notice perhaps a bit more mid-stroke support, but my awesome damper was doing so much work already that it's not as noticeable. Still, there are a few situations where I can maybe notice the added stability of the fork. I'm having more trouble dialing in progression/end stroke though, needing significantly more pressure than before and trying to come to the correct amount. With one token, I'm either going to need more pressure (already running more than I was, now at around 77-80psi) or more token. A1 seemed to ramp up faster in the last half when I was running enough pressure.
 
ianjenn

ianjenn

Turbo Monkey
Sep 12, 2006
3,001
704
SLO
Even though the SRAM boys are local here I only know a handful of them. They hire out of towners a bunch and then for some reason move here. Maybe I can talk to them as well. Still waiting to hear on insurance and see en exact amount.
 
dump

dump

Turbo Monkey
Oct 12, 2001
8,221
4,470
jonKranked said:
unless that facility is completely free and open to the public, there's no way that's a tax write off, especially in an area as expensive as SLO.
Click to expand...
How does building a new office become a tax write-off?
 
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