[Kanye West]

My CCDB took a dump, and while it felt pretty dang superb I want a shock that I could potentially service myself if I had to.

Had a Roco, hated the rebound range and the high reservoir pressures. DHX's and Fox products in general are out of the question. I have had good luck with Avy's reliability in the past, but getting usable valving was a bit of a chore. Don't really know jack about the Elka's yet, and the BOS Stoy would match my BOS 888 cartridge real nice (first choice), but is probably retarded expensive.

Any input, factual or fictional?

 

[Brian HCM#1]

I love the Avalanche on my old DH bike. I'm waiting for Elka to send me a shock to try on my new Disco. No clue on the BOS.

 

[Bicyclist]

Get an Elka, it's the cheapest, potentially one of the nicest, and then you could be a test dummy.

 

[Kanye West]

Get an Elka, it's the cheapest, potentially one of the nicest, and then you could be a test dummy.

Yeah because that's exactly what I want to be.

Yes, the Elka is the cheapest and sounds like it comes with a more reasonable range of adjustment than the Avy. Also has tool-less adjusters which is a major bonus.

The tiny reservoir of the Chubie seems like it would not accommodate much oil flow. It would have to be displacing a LOT of fluid through the piston and very little through the reservoir valves.

 

[Bicyclist]

But seriously, given the fact that Avy can't seem to get a shock set up from the get-go, and with the price of the BOS being what it is, Elka is pretty much the only shock I'd buy right now despite the lack of much info on them out there.

 

[ridingsupreme]

RC4 for the win. if ur bike design isn't outdated I'll let you borrow mine for a ride.

 

[Kanye West]

Yeah checked one of those out. No damping for the first half of the travel, plus the oversized shaft and sky high resy PSI = cavitation city. Goodbye consistent rebound. Kinda disappointed, I thought Fox was going to put out something legitimate for once instead of the usual cheap crap/tons of hype/funny names sorta thing. I'd give it a whirl on the M3 for the hell of it though.

 

[Bicyclist]

Yeah, the review I read by someone on here (socket IIRC) was somewhat disappointing.

 

[William42]

You get the Bos, I'll get the elka. My CCDB is disappointing with no ending stroke ramp up, I need an intermediate springrate, and I can't afford a ti spring. I'd be able to afford an elka by selling the CCDB though...

Report back in 1 month.

 

[Kanye West]

You get the Bos and I'll pay for it, I'll get the elka.

Report back in 1 month.

Deal!

 

[Kanye West]

I am leaning heavily towards the Elka. Going to talk techy nerdy stuff with them tomorrow and see what it's about...and if it will fit an M3.

 

[contactjt]

What failure did you have with the CCDB?

Will the BOS or the Elka be user servicable as you desire?

 

[bobsten]

What failure did you have with the CCDB?

Will the BOS or the Elka be user servicable as you desire?

Exactly what I was thinking. I have had nothing but amazing CS from Malcom at Cane Creek.

If anything I would say get a clapped Manitou and send it to CR 1 Engineering. Plushies all day.

 

[Iridemtb]

I was debating between an elk and avy, get the elka. Lighter, better performing.

 

[snowskilz]

I've been an avy user since 03 and I love their shocks. I'd suggest avy or elka. But I'd also wait foe elka to have a little more time in the marketplace.


My buddies picked up the new fox and all love. So there's another choice from a proven company

 

[yetiboyjay]

I hated my avalanche products, both DHS shock i had on my MKI (2002) DHR and the DHF-8's i had on my foes. Could never get the shock to work right, they never managed to get the valving right...

The forks got banana'd, bent the upper tubes.

Not great. I absolutely love my PUSH tuned Roco WC coil on my RL9.

 

[Steve M]

Yeah, the review I read by someone on here (socket IIRC) was somewhat disappointing.

Disappointing? How so? Smooth with independent LSC/HSC adjustments that actually do something, adjustable bottom out resistance, and quality rebound damping... the only issue with it that I found is that you seem to need to run very soft springs to deal with the air spring effect. It's distinctly better than a stock DHX.

Hacktastic: mate you're smoking far too much crack if you think there is "no damping for the first half of the travel", and that the large shaft somehow has something to do with cavitation. Could not be further from the truth - unless of course you ride a V10 and weigh 120kg. I suggest you actually ride one before talking **** on it. Oh and suggesting that high reservoir pressures actually CAUSE cavitation is the best thing I've read all week. Er, and 125-200psi is not exactly "sky high" reservoir pressure... maybe you should ask what other manufacturers use. Plenty of shocks were and are above that. Elkas run at 150psi for starters (which is what I ran in the RC4 - and I'm no lightweight). If you wanna jump on the Fox hating bandwagon, be my guest, just stop blatantly inventing stuff.

 

[boogenman]

I would go with a avy chubie or woodie(if it fits) on the M3, I have seen many guys using the avy on that frame. As for the haters of the Avy that could never get it right? Craig has a policy where he will re-tune the shock for free in the first 30 days if you want it tweaked. A buddy of mine just had Craig shimz up a 5th for his v10 and I am amazed at how great the bike feels now.

I would consider Elka after another year of people using them.

What happened to your CCDB?

 

[IH8Rice]

I hated my avalanche products, both DHS shock i had on my MKI (2002) DHR and the DHF-8's i had on my foes. Could never get the shock to work right, they never managed to get the valving right...

The forks got banana'd, bent the upper tubes.

i dont think ive ever heard anyone bending their tubes on a Avy fork before. did you pull a Bender?

 

[Kntr]

Avy all the way. He even has a video for you if you want to take the shock apart.

 

[Sandwich]

For end user serviceability, the avy is hard to beat. Plus he's located in the US, so service will be much simpler than BOS. Elka is new on the market, and while it might be a great shock, it might also be the same shock with a different name. What about a Vivid? People seem to like those, they're relatively proven, and fairly cheap.

I agree with one poster above, it might be wiser to buy a used slammed shock and send it to one of the tuning shops for a rework.

 

[Bicyclist]

Disappointing? How so? Smooth with independent LSC/HSC adjustments that actually do something, adjustable bottom out resistance, and quality rebound damping... the only issue with it that I found is that you seem to need to run very soft springs to deal with the air spring effect. It's distinctly better than a stock DHX.

Hacktastic: mate you're smoking far too much crack if you think there is "no damping for the first half of the travel", and that the large shaft somehow has something to do with cavitation. Could not be further from the truth - unless of course you ride a V10 and weigh 120kg. I suggest you actually ride one before talking **** on it. Oh and suggesting that high reservoir pressures actually CAUSE cavitation is the best thing I've read all week. Er, and 125-200psi is not exactly "sky high" reservoir pressure... maybe you should ask what other manufacturers use. Plenty of shocks were and are above that. Elkas run at 150psi for starters (which is what I ran in the RC4 - and I'm no lightweight). If you wanna jump on the Fox hating bandwagon, be my guest, just stop blatantly inventing stuff.

I seem to remember the shock sounding less like a complete revolution as far as feel goes and more like an improved DHX. Not a bad thing, but the reviews of the Bos I've read have been more impressive sounding. Maybe I need to go back and re-read.

 

[RUFUS]

I seem to remember the shock sounding less like a complete revolution as far as feel goes and more like an improved DHX. Not a bad thing, but the reviews of the Bos I've read have been more impressive sounding. Maybe I need to go back and re-read.

Maybe you need to ride them instead of basing all of your opinions on what a few kids on the internet are saying.

Put them on your bike, use all of the adjustments and see how they actually feel.

People seem to think that they know everything about suspension and use all of the big words to sound smart, (case in point with your posts) but they never have tried half of the products that they are talking about.

Not trying to slam you, you sound like you know what you are talking about but see if you can't try out the different shocks, borrow one and go ride.

 

[ianjenn]

Figure out a way to run a longer shock on that thing 1st. Then spend the cash. You aren't getting a new frame anytime soon or what? Thought the M3 was a holdover to get you by?

 

[Kanye West]

The next frame will be a 9.5x3 as well. Why would I want a longer shock on the M3? If anything it needs a slacker HA.

The Avy or the Elka or just about any other standard shock I could rebuild if I really had to, just gotta know the exact oil weight, IFP depth and resy pressure. Bench bleeding the CCDB would be far too much of a nightmare to even think about.

I would go for the Chubie from Avy, not the Woodie. Not a big fan of bladder systems, and I might run into clearance issues.

For the record, the CS that I've received in the past from CC has been stellar, and the product performed decently well, but not well enough to justify both the cost and any reliability issues at all. I don't want to bash the product or Cane Creek, but I want to be able to service my stuff when/if it goes foul instead of having 2 weeks or more of down time.

 

[Routier07]

Well Ive had a few rides on the Elka.. Up-to-date its been really really good. I have been riding wide-open rocky and rooty downhill trails for the past 2-3 weeks.

The adjustments are tool-free and are easy to adjust, each click does what its supposed to do, Each click of the rebound is very nitceable. However it does take some time to get the shock adjusted properly, Im still playing with the LSC and HSC to get the most out of the shock...

Early reviews said it feels identical or close to a DHX 5, I have not felt a DHX 5 on my Faith but I have had a DHX 4 on my bike for the past 2 seasons, and the Elka feels NOTHING like it. I havent ridden anything other than a DHX, so I cant go on to compare the Elka to a CCDB, Vivid, BOS or even an Avy.. Parking lot tests dont do justice with this shock, it needs to be taken out for a run or two to feel its full potential!

So as you can tell im very satisfied with this shock.. Plus im supporting a relatively "local" company and when I go to the Quebec races I get factory support if needed! All under 600$CAD.

If yous have any questions just shoot em' my way.

Cheers.

 

[ianjenn]

Dude all these people saying they need a slacker HA. Not so sure its needed. 99% of the time the trails bikes are being ridden on can be navigated at very fast speeds on a 68 degree HA bike with 4" of travel. But again some people like the feel of slacker bikes. Just an opinion but I am sure you have seen way faster dudes on more DS oriented rigs correct? Just fab up your own body!

 

[Kanye West]

Just because you can "navigate" a trail on a 68 HA and 4" of travel and no sag does not mean that's the fastest and most stable way to do things. Besides, this is a DH bike. It does see some steep stuff on occasion...

BTW, your M1 will probably build up with a 62 degree head angle Mr. Nobody Needs A Slacked Out Bike.

 

[gemini2k]

but I want to be able to service my stuff when/if it goes foul instead of having 2 weeks or more of down time.

Fix your splinter for god's sake. Then you'll never have downtime.

 

[ianjenn]

Just because you can "navigate" a trail on a 68 HA and 4" of travel and no sag does not mean that's the fastest and most stable way to do things. Besides, this is a DH bike. It does see some steep stuff on occasion...

BTW, your M1 will probably build up with a 62 degree head angle Mr. Nobody Needs A Slacked Out Bike.

Yeah not sure how I am gonna run it. the BB goes low but will probably run it in the middle. You should try and make the link that connects the bottom of shock to the frame be adjustable? Like the 2001 Palmer Rep's had. That would be sick!

 

[Bicyclist]

Maybe you need to ride them instead of basing all of your opinions on what a few kids on the internet are saying.

Put them on your bike, use all of the adjustments and see how they actually feel.

People seem to think that they know everything about suspension and use all of the big words to sound smart, (case in point with your posts) but they never have tried half of the products that they are talking about.

Not trying to slam you, you sound like you know what you are talking about but see if you can't try out the different shocks, borrow one and go ride.

Bah, he asked for fact and fiction!

 

[ohio]

CCDB underperforming? Seriously?

Either we're all getting spoiled or just antsy. Maybe you should try fiddling with all the little knobs and shiny bits?

 

[William42]

CCDB underperforming? Seriously?

Either we're all getting spoiled or just antsy. Maybe you should try fiddling with all the little knobs and shiny bits?

Have more koolaid. I'm not sure how you could get any more on CC's nuts, but I'm sure the CC koolaid will demostrate how.

I have a CCDB too. It'd be nice to have some progressiveness in the shock, especially adjustable progressiveness. I also had to send it back within 3 weeks of getting mine because the top out bumper blew.

Dont' get me wrong, I still like the shock alot, but like everything else out there, there is room for improvement. I'm actually really liking the sound of the Bos. Maybe I'll start selling my body for one.

 

[ohio]

Have more koolaid. I'm not sure how you could get any more on CC's nuts

Maybe if I put them in my mouth and hummmmmmmmmmmed?

CCDB isn't the greatest shock ever possible. All of these shocks are fantastic. They also all function according to the same basic principles, and have a wide range of adjustability. A good tuner can make them function very very similarly to each other. Finally, they are light years ahead of what was available even 3 years ago, and on par with what was literally world class unobtanium formula 1 motoGP from maybe 7 years ago.

So if you're really disatisfied with your CC, the only reason you won't be disappointed with one of the other options is if you stumble onto better settings which you probably could have achieved with your current shock. I'd offer up the same "sack up and play with your shock, you spoiled ninny" if someone were starting with the BOS or Elka. The differences are not the quality or the technology. They are how close you can get the settings to being perfect for you.

 

[Jm_]

CCDB isn't the greatest shock ever possible. All of these shocks are fantastic. They also all function according to the same basic principles,

Um, no they don't. The CCDB functions very different compared to most everything else. I guess in terms of converting mechanical motion into heat they work the "same", but the CCDB has the "recirculation/DB" principle with poppet valves where you control the preload. Not the same as a nitrogen charged shock that often uses different size shims or arrangements which is different than "preload", although they often also incorperate adjustments to also preload the shims. There could be advantages and disadvantages to both.

Otherwise (not counting the CCDB) I'd agree, most of the technology is the same. Just because the CCDB functions differently doesn't make it better IMO, although CCDB marketing would have you believe otherwise. As you said it's about getting the shock as tuned-for-you as possible.


On the subject of the shock:

Yeah, I'm an avy whore. It performs like I expected it to, which is to say it does things that I always thought a shock should be capable of. It's also one of the few, if not the only shock that I've owned where the faster you go the better it works. Mach 9 down a rough scree-field feels like heaven. It doesn't bob like crazy or wallow on the slightest G-out, which seems to be a limitation of almost everything else. If you want to set up most shocks for decent high-speed characteristics it usually forces the low-speed to react like crap (blow through the travel, excessive suspension movement), and it's either that or high-speed spiking. There are a lot of times I "brace" for a square/sharp-edged bump that is comming up, and it just never happens. Avy would probably have a bigger market share if craig did as much advertising as CC, but craig just needs enough work to keep him busy I'd imagine. I had great service from Avy, and when I had to get my shock resized and I wanted it back fast, he did an awesome job of getting it back when I was time-limited.

 

[Kanye West]

Um, no they don't. The CCDB functions very different compared to most everything else. I guess in terms of converting mechanical motion into heat they work the "same", but the CCDB has the "recirculation/DB" principle with poppet valves where you control the preload. Not the same as a nitrogen charged shock that often uses different size shims or arrangements which is different than "preload", although they often also incorperate adjustments to also preload the shims. There could be advantages and disadvantages to both.

Otherwise (not counting the CCDB) I'd agree, most of the technology is the same. Just because the CCDB functions differently doesn't make it better IMO, although CCDB marketing would have you believe otherwise. As you said it's about getting the shock as tuned-for-you as possible.


On the subject of the shock:

Yeah, I'm an avy whore. It performs like I expected it to, which is to say it does things that I always thought a shock should be capable of. It's also one of the few, if not the only shock that I've owned where the faster you go the better it works. Mach 9 down a rough scree-field feels like heaven. It doesn't bob like crazy or wallow on the slightest G-out, which seems to be a limitation of almost everything else. If you want to set up most shocks for decent high-speed characteristics it usually forces the low-speed to react like crap (blow through the travel, excessive suspension movement), and it's either that or high-speed spiking. There are a lot of times I "brace" for a square/sharp-edged bump that is comming up, and it just never happens. Avy would probably have a bigger market share if craig did as much advertising as CC, but craig just needs enough work to keep him busy I'd imagine. I had great service from Avy, and when I had to get my shock resized and I wanted it back fast, he did an awesome job of getting it back when I was time-limited.

This is pretty much it. No matter what setting I arrive at with the CCDB I'm still compromising somewhere and having to think about the back end of the bike too much when I ride, dare I say, moreso than I would be with my gutted Swinger 6-Way. G-outs are about the only place I can think of that the CCDB excels over other shocks. Square edge hits I'm having to fight the back end too much on and "brace" for, it can still blow through travel off of drops, especially onto rough stuff, and it can kick like mad. Trying to skim over the tops of bumps and guess what wild motion I'm going to get out of the back end is downright scary.

I've spent a LOT of time messing with all the settings on it, and my sag is dead on too (33-35% depending on my burrito intake for that given day). I have yet to arrive at a setting where I'm not having to guess what the shock is going to do at some point on the trail. The best setting I arrived at was:

LSC: Full out to 3 clicks in, max
HSC: 1-1.25 turns in
LSR: 8 clicks in
HSR: 1.5 turns in

The way I arrived at this was: any LSC would make it kick like a mechanical bull unless you leaned all the way back and slammed the rear wheel into a tall curb and kept your knees locked. Small trail junk would deflect the wheel real bad. Any less HSC and I would bottom the hell out of it. Any more and it would spike hard on fast stuff.

LSR has to be at minimum 7 clicks in to keep the back end stable coming off of smaller obstacles in the trail and rockgardens. 8 is comfortable. 9 or higher and it packs. HSR is where it's at to get acceptable lift off of jumps. Any more and it just sinks. Any less and it gets bucknasty.

The perfect shock is the one I don't have to even think about on the trail. Hell, the perfect bike is the one with not a single piece of gear that draws my attention away from the trail and going faster. Time and energy spent trying to guess what my equipment is going to do is just wasted. It doesn't even necessarily have to be plush, just stable.

 

[Kanye West]

So if you're really disatisfied with your CC, the only reason you won't be disappointed with one of the other options is if you stumble onto better settings which you probably could have achieved with your current shock. I'd offer up the same "sack up and play with your shock, you spoiled ninny" if someone were starting with the BOS or Elka. The differences are not the quality or the technology. They are how close you can get the settings to being perfect for you.

Read my above post. Radically different technology, and the fact is that it really doesn't have the same available settings as other shocks. It still relies on the whole "undersprung/overdamped thing" which I'm not entirely sold on after having ridden it for a while.

 

[buckoW]

I am loving the RC4 for the reasons you mentioned in your last paragraph. Maybe the frame is making it hard for you to get the feeling you are looking for?

 

[William42]

I am loving the RC4 for the reasons you mentioned in your last paragraph. Maybe the frame is making it hard for you to get the feeling you are looking for?

On a completely different frame, and similar problems.

Edit: by the way ohio, I didn't mean to be such a douche, I just read your post totally the wrong way. Thanks for being mature about it, my bad.

 

[fmorgan683]

Can anyone post a link for AVY CHUBIE and WOODIE SHOXs thanx P.S and any pics