[binary visions]

N8 is the reason this Political Forum is such a worthless mess. His stupid cut-and-paste propoganda spam has everyone so pissed off and polarized all the time, it's impossible to discuss anything.

Eh, well, he's looking for reactions and that's what he gets - he's certainly not looking for (nor contributing to) any intelligent conversation. So, you have to admit, he succeeds brilliantly at being enough of an ass to just stir everyone up into a rage.

Which means that everyone who reacts to him are the reason this forum is such a worthless mess, because he's so obviously trolling that a deep breath and a snide comment about his tactics would be a far more appropriate way to handle him.

 

[nicklin]

My point was that even if its forced upon them to vote their own leaders (what a horrible concept that is) its still better than Saddam.

I was talking to a friend of mine the other day who got back from Iraq recently. He was telling me about one of saddam's sons palaces and how they had to have these guys come in to remove lions from these cages within the complex. The lions were there, and lining the floor of the pens were human bones. Apparently those sick ****ers were feeding live humans to lions as a form of entertainment.

I agree.

If anyone remember the movie Brave Heart, the part where the governor makes the law that all Scottish brides must spend a night with him prior to the marriage.

I remember reading about how Saddam's sons used to go around and rape girls who were about to be married.

So if that's not grounds for someone to do something about, I don't what is.

TO the rest---
You know what, if anyone expect a morally conscious American to apologize for taking out a dictator and his two psyco pervert sons who get joy from rapes, executions, and live human feeding to lions, get your heads checked. One less pervert like them is one better for their people, even if they don't realize it.

If anyone refers back to my posts during the beginning of the Iraq War, I was initially against it, but when I realized that Saddam can get rid of for good, it changes a lot of things.

I also think it is very silly to say "America armed Saddam/Bin Laden so it's America's fault in the first place". Guess what? If y'all look back and put yourself in the 70's to 80's, who would you have helped? An upstart freedom fighter or the more prominently feared fanatics at the time? The American government is not filled with psychics, it can only make the best decision based on what the intelligence analysis can conclude. Who would have known that the Husseins turned out to be silence-of-the-lamb type of people? Did any of you say back then that "I think Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden will be come the new security threats to the world"? NO, of course you didn't. If you are better than Ms CLeo, please do humor us and tell us where the next hot spot will be and let's see what happens. SHall we?

 

[Discostu]

I also think it is very silly to say "America armed Saddam/Bin Laden so it's America's fault in the first place". Guess what? If y'all look back and put yourself in the 70's to 80's, who would you have helped? An upstart freedom fighter or the more prominently feared fanatics at the time? The American government is not filled with psychics, it can only make the best decision based on what the intelligence analysis can conclude. Who would have known that the Husseins turned out to be silence-of-the-lamb type of people? Did any of you say back then that "I think Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden will be come the new security threats to the world"? NO, of course you didn't. If you are better than Ms CLeo, please do humor us and tell us where the next hot spot will be and let's see what happens. SHall we?

So you're saying its ok that we supplied Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Ladin with Billions in weapons because we didn't know who they were or what they would do with them? Anyone see something wrong with this? Why is it that we need to introduce so many weapons into the world in the first place? Well I've got a guess; the US arms industry wouldn't be too happy to lose their 11 billion dollar yearly sales to foreign nations, thus they encourage the government that they should help out this one fellow (Osama Bin Ladin) thats doing a great job putting a massive hurt on the Soviets. Or maybe a powerful middle eastern leader (Saddam Hussein) that is softening up those Iranians we hate so much? After all, the enemy of my enemy is my friend right???

I think as a nation we need to be a little more responsible with our weapons. Nicklin is absolutely right, we don't have psychics at the Pentagon, but I feel that means we shouldn't just hand out weapons and say sorry when they get into the wrong hands. DON'T GIVE ANYONE THE WEAPONS!!! Is that really such a difficult thing to do? In addition instead of invading nations which we think have weapons of mass destruction, we should think about destroying the weapons of mass destruction we know are out there... In US and Russian stockpiles. I for one don't understand why its neccessary that we simultaneously criticize countries like North Korea, Iran and Iraq for building weapons of mass destruction WHILE BUILDING OUR OWN NEW WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION, THUS VIOLATING INTERNATIONAL NUCLEAR WEAPONS TREATIES! Do we really need more nuclear weapons when we currently have over 10,500 operational warheads? NO! We are sending the world the message that its OK that we build nuclear weapons, and violate treaties, but noone else can.

As for the original topic about the price of the life of an Iraqi, I think about it this way: At least 100,000 Iraqi Civilians have died thus far in the current war, while ~3000 died on 9-11. The US population is about 300 million while the population of Iraq is about 25 million. If you look at it as a ratio of lives lost to total population, the US has inflicted the equivalent of 343 consecutive 9-11's on the Iraqi Civilian populace. Think about how much the American people value the lives of those ~3000 that died in 9-11, how much of an effect it had on our country. Now image that happening 343 times in a row. What could possibly justify the loss of those lives? NOTHING. Certainly not giving us the chance to impose a miniature version of our government on a group of people that have never said thats what they want.

 

[Changleen]

As for the original topic about the price of the life of an Iraqi, I think about it this way: At least 100,000 Iraqi Civilians have died thus far in the current war, while ~3000 died on 9-11. The US population is about 300 million while the population of Iraq is about 25 million. If you look at it as a ratio of lives lost to total population, the US has inflicted the equivalent of 343 consecutive 9-11's on the Iraqi Civilian populace. Think about how much the American people value the lives of those ~3000 that died in 9-11, how much of an effect it had on our country. Now image that happening 343 times in a row. What could possibly justify the loss of those lives? NOTHING. Certainly not giving us the chance to impose a miniature version of our government on a group of people that have never said thats what they want.

 

[Discostu]

If you are better than Ms CLeo, please do humor us and tell us where the next hot spot will be and let's see what happens. SHall we?

If you happen to look up facts on saddam's regime on the whitehouse.gov site you will see that gassing of the Kurds occurred from 1983-1988. Remember the famous picture of Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam, while working out those multi billion dollar arms deals? The date on that picture is December 20, 1983, which means that AFTER Saddam began his attacks we offered to INCREASE our weapons sales to Saddam. Rumsfeld didn't need Ms. Cleo to know what kind of guy Saddam was.

 

[genpowell71]

Damn us for attemting to bring democracy to a people who have never known it... we sure do suck.


:evil:

20 years from now, they'll be back to a religious government anyway

 

[Changleen]

20 years from now, they'll be back to a religious government anyway

20 years behind the US, then?

 

[genpowell71]

Yeah but we dont cut peoples heads off for not believeing the same way

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

Yeah but we dont cut peoples heads off for not believeing the same way

nahh, cover up CIA assasinations for opposition leaders and political persecution only.

plus all the killing required for the next 20 years to make iraq US-controllable its been done with this war, or maybe its already been done and they are overdue right now.

 

[Changleen]

Yeah but we dont cut peoples heads off for not believeing the same way

Yeah, It's much less effort just to shoot them.

 

[genpowell71]

Bingo!!! Tell him what he's won Johnny!!!

 

[Changleen]

Bingo!!! Tell him what he's won Johnny!!!

Well, behind the curtain this week, Bob, we've got a great selection for this lucky idiot - A lifetime of fear and oppresion from his own 'freedom loving' government, mistrust in nearly every other country in the world, and a lifetime supply of hypocracy and hatred! What Patriotic American could want any more?

 

[genpowell71]

Stop it, (sniff sniff) I'm starting to weep with happiness...