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What makes Kerry think the draft will pass?

Motionboy2

Calendar Dominator
Apr 23, 2002
1,800
0
Broomfield, Colorado
here is the quote, you be the judge

"KERRY: We're all God's children, Bob. And I think if you were to talk to Dick Cheney's daughter, who is a lesbian, she would tell you that she's being who she was, she's being who she was born as.

I think if you talk to anybody, it's not choice. I've met people who struggled with this for years, people who were in a marriage because they were living a sort of convention, and they struggled with it.

And I've met wives who are supportive of their husbands or vice versa when they finally sort of broke out and allowed themselves to live who they were, who they felt God had made them.

I think we have to respect that. "
 

Skookum

bikey's is cool
Jul 26, 2002
10,184
0
in a bear cave
Yup i find it interesting that the Bush team is trying to politicize it this way. Putting shame into the equation.
How dare Kerry mention our Gay daughter!!!
Pretty much a knee jerk reaction that many people would have when their beliefs are conflicted with their love for their gay kid. It strikes a chord with their core group of religious consituents to keep their "faith" so to speak alive, concerning the integrity of their campaign on this subject.
It's really interesting, i really like how it's working out. The whole deal is pretty funny, classic American "Don't talk about it, put your head in the sand" kind of deal.

All's i know is if i was Cheney's daughter i'd try to score on Bush's daughters. Hehe lick Bush bush.
 

stevew

resident influencer
Sep 21, 2001
41,349
10,280
Motionboy2 said:
here is the quote, you be the judge

"KERRY: We're all God's children, Bob. And I think if you were to talk to Dick Cheney's daughter, who is a lesbian, she would tell you that she's being who she was, she's being who she was born as.

I think if you talk to anybody, it's not choice. I've met people who struggled with this for years, people who were in a marriage because they were living a sort of convention, and they struggled with it.

And I've met wives who are supportive of their husbands or vice versa when they finally sort of broke out and allowed themselves to live who they were, who they felt God had made them.

I think we have to respect that. "
But has he talked to her? Does he know her? Why not mention Barney Franks name instead. Or Jim McGreevey.

If Kerry is going to add two more divisions, won't he need the draft?
 

Toshi

butthole powerwashing evangelist
Oct 23, 2001
40,226
9,113
why are republicans getting all uptight about the cheney's daughter comment when edwards and cheney himself discussed her in the VP debate?
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,840
1
Orange County, CA
Cheney's daughter used to work as the liason to the gay community for Coors brewing...so not only is she out, but she's made money off the fact that she happens to be a lesbian.

It's interesting that the GOP would feign outrage over politicizing gays, when they keep throwing (figuratively speaking, we aren't stoning homosexuals...yet) stones.

For what it's worth, here's what the head of the Log Cabin Republicans thinks:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/10/15/log.cabin/
 

Damn True

Monkey Pimp
Sep 10, 2001
4,015
3
Between a rock and a hard place.
The draft won't pass. Those guys want to get re-elected too. The only way there will ever be a draft is by Executive order. Frankly, there is no need for it right now.

As for the Gay daughter thing....Grandstanding of the highest order. If Kerry really wanted to take the high road he would have made no mention of it. IMO the only reason he did so was to perhaps divide opinion among fundamentalist Christians that may have not known that one of the bastions of conservatism had a daughter that was "One of them thar queers".
 

Toshi

butthole powerwashing evangelist
Oct 23, 2001
40,226
9,113
cheney's daughter has been no secret. she worked as the gay and lesbian outreach coordinator for the coors brewing company. and, like i said, edwards and cheney discussed her in the VP debate. :confused:
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,840
1
Orange County, CA
Toshi said:
cheney's daughter has been no secret. she worked as the gay and lesbian outreach coordinator for the coors brewing company. and, like i said, edwards and cheney discussed her in the VP debate. :confused:
She's also working on Cheney's staff...but they haven't exactly been putting her out there.
 

Damn True

Monkey Pimp
Sep 10, 2001
4,015
3
Between a rock and a hard place.
They werent trying to keep it a secret. I think they were going on the "treat it as no big deal" route. Which IMO is fine, it's no big deal. Kerry/Edwards were clearly trying to bring the issue forward in a subtle way to make it known to extreme right wingers who may not have known (because it hasn't been publicised) and who may be PO'd about it.

Who brought it up during the VP debate?
 

Toshi

butthole powerwashing evangelist
Oct 23, 2001
40,226
9,113
edwards did, in a similar manner to kerry. why was no one outraged then?

FILL: The next question goes to you, Mr. Vice President.

I want to read something you said four years ago at this very setting: "Freedom means freedom for everybody." You said it again recently when you were asked about legalizing same-sex unions. And you used your family's experience as a context for your remarks.

Can you describe then your administration's support for a constitutional ban on same-sex unions?

CHENEY: Gwen, you're right, four years ago in this debate, the subject came up. And I said then and I believe today that freedom does mean freedom for everybody. People ought to be free to choose any arrangement they want. It's really no one else's business.

That's a separate question from the issue of whether or not government should sanction or approve or give some sort of authorization, if you will, to these relationships.

Traditionally, that's been an issue for the states. States have regulated marriage, if you will. That would be my preference.

In effect, what's happened is that in recent months, especially in Massachusetts, but also in California, but in Massachusetts we had the Massachusetts Supreme Court direct the state of -- the legislature of Massachusetts to modify their constitution to allow gay marriage.

And the fact is that the president felt that it was important to make it clear that that's the wrong way to go, as far as he's concerned.

Now, he sets the policy for this administration, and I support the president.

IFILL: Senator Edwards, 90 seconds.

EDWARDS: Yes. Let me say first, on an issue that the vice president said in his last answer before we got to this question, talking about tax policy, the country needs to know that under what they have put in place and want to put in place, a millionaire sitting by their swimming pool, collecting their statements to see how much money they're making, make their money from dividends, pays a lower tax rate than the men and women who are receiving paychecks for serving on the ground in Iraq.

Now, they may think that's right. John Kerry and I do not.

We don't just value wealth, which they do. We value work in this country. And it is a fundamental value difference between them and us.

Now, as to this question, let me say first that I think the vice president and his wife love their daughter. I think they love her very much. And you can't have anything but respect for the fact that they're willing to talk about the fact that they have a gay daughter, the fact that they embrace her. It's a wonderful thing. And there are millions of parents like that who love their children, who want their children to be happy.

And I believe that marriage is between a man and a woman, and so does John Kerry.

I also believe that there should be partnership benefits for gay and lesbian couples in long-term, committed relationships.

But we should not use the Constitution to divide this country.

No state for the last 200 years has ever had to recognize another state's marriage.

This is using the Constitution as a political tool, and it's wrong.

IFILL: New question, but same subject.

As the vice president mentioned, John Kerry comes from the state of Massachusetts, which has taken as big a step as any state in the union to legalize gay marriage. Yet both you and Senator Kerry say you oppose it.

Are you trying to have it both ways?

EDWARDS: No. I think we've both said the same thing all along.

We both believe that -- and this goes onto the end of what I just talked about -- we both believe that marriage is between a man and a woman.

But we also believe that gay and lesbians and gay and lesbian couples, those who have been in long-term relationships, deserve to be treated respectfully, they deserve to have benefits.

For example, a gay couple now has a very difficult time, one, visiting the other when they're in the hospital, or, for example, if, heaven forbid, one of them were to pass away, they have trouble even arranging the funeral.

I mean, those are not the kind of things that John Kerry and I believe in. I suspect the vice president himself does not believe in that.

But we don't -- we do believe that marriage should be between a man and a woman.

And I want to go back, if I can, to the question you just asked, which is this constitutional amendment.

I want to make sure people understand that the president is proposing a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage that is completely unnecessary.

Under the law of this country for the last 200 years, no state has been required to recognize another state's marriage.

Let me just be simple about this. My state of North Carolina would not be required to recognize a marriage from Massachusetts, which you just asked about.

There is absolutely no purpose in the law and in reality for this amendment. It's nothing but a political tool. And it's being used in an effort to divide this country on an issue that we should not be dividing America on.

We ought to be talking about issues like health care and jobs and what's happening in Iraq, not using an issue to divide this country in a way that's solely for political purposes. It's wrong.

IFILL: Mr. Vice President, you have 90 seconds.

CHENEY: Well, Gwen, let me simply thank the senator for the kind words he said about my family and our daughter. I appreciate that very much.

IFILL: That's it?

CHENEY: That's it.
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,840
1
Orange County, CA
Damn True said:
They werent trying to keep it a secret. I think they were going on the "treat it as no big deal" route. Which IMO is fine, it's no big deal. Kerry/Edwards were clearly trying to bring the issue forward in a subtle way to make it known to extreme right wingers who may not have known (because it hasn't been publicised) and who may be PO'd about it.

Who brought it up during the VP debate?
Which is about as disingenuous as things get. If it's no big deal to be gay, why are we looking at amending the constitution in order to make sure that gay people can't get the same treatment that straight people do?
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
Damn True said:
Who brought it up during the VP debate?
Cheney did on the campaign trail and then Gwen Ifill of PBS brought it up:

IFILL: The next question goes to you, Mr. Vice President.

I want to read something you said four years ago at this very setting: "Freedom means freedom for everybody." You said it again recently when you were asked about legalizing same-sex unions. And you used your family's experience as a context for your remarks.

Can you describe then your administration's support for a constitutional ban on same-sex unions?
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,840
1
Orange County, CA
Damn True said:
....maybe then the question should be posed to Cheney's daughter?
Who is working on her Dad's re-election campaign.

She's part of the machinery working to get Cheney and Bush elected. That more than makes her fair game, but the GOP is doing their best to keep her hidden.
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,649
26
SF, CA
I do feel that Kerry/Edwards have not taken the high road on this issue, but then again, this hasn't exactly been a "high-road" type election... this is certainly one of the strategies I find least offensive from either side.
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
N8 said:
sKerry is using the 'draft' as part of a stratgey of Fear.

Nothing more, nothing less....
Yeah its too bad they sunk down to the Bush Administration's level :p
 

fluff

Monkey Turbo
Sep 8, 2001
5,673
2
Feeling the lag
N8 said:
sKerry is using the 'draft' as part of a stratgey of Fear.

Nothing more, nothing less....
Funny, I've always though that the right had first dibs on the politics of fear. From what I can see it's fear that makes people vote conservative/republican.

The USA has made such an art of the politics of fear that it is truly amazing that you guys still have such an efficient military machine.