[shocktower]

What the Hell is going on here ( USA ) so fricking what if a man wants to marry another man ,that`s his perogative so why do all these bible beating hypocrits have invading or having a say so in a persons life ,.as long as the activitys you are invoulved in have no effect on another person why fvck with them ,I just don`t get it .Why do people worry about so mutch about others who`s life style has no effect on theirs ,so what gray Davis has signed a bill to the effect that a same sex marriage is now accepted as that a reall marriage

 

[LordOpie]

i hear ya man!

ya know what pisses me off? English teachers -- I hate them more than peas -- always telling me how to spell and write. Arg! They make me and :angry:

 

[ummbikes]

Originally posted by LordOpie
i hear ya man!

ya know what pisses me off? English teachers -- I hate them more than peas -- always telling me how to spell and write. Arg! They make me and :angry:

Nice. Good times.

 

[biggins]

i think that if 2 people of the same sex wanna get married let em i dont care. the only problem i would see in it is if children are involved. having same sex parents may bring up some issues with the childs development but then again that can be challenged with the age old question of nature -vs- nuture.

 

[Sideways]

Originally posted by biggins
i think that if 2 people of the same sex wanna get married let em i dont care. the only problem i would see in it is if children are involved. having same sex parents may bring up some issues with the childs development but then again that can be challenged with the age old question of nature -vs- nuture.

Nah. I've known a few folks raised by gay parents.
They've turned out just as healthy and happy as anyone else.

 

[LordOpie]

Originally posted by Sideways
Nah. I've known a few folks raised by gay parents.
They've turned out just as healthy and happy as anyone else.

I suspect that kids raised by homos would be better off since those parents could never accidentally have a child... it takes a lot of time, money, and dedication to adopt or in-vitro.

 

[builder666]

Originally posted by LordOpie
I suspect that kids raised by homos would be better off since those parents could never accidentally have a child... it takes a lot of time, money, and dedication to adopt or in-vitro.

****ing funny ****!!!:devil:

Let the donut-bumpers and sword-swallowers alone...

 

[builder666]

I just re-read the title of the thread.... WTF

 

[laura]

Originally posted by builder666
I just re-read the title of the thread.... WTF

yeah, i know.

 

[LordOpie]

Originally posted by ummbikes
Good times

that expression never gets old

Originally posted by ummbikes

feeling a bit emotional, are we?

 

[-BB-]

The last three choices all seem like the same thing to me.

 

[ummbikes]

I have no idea what this thread is about.

 

[builder666]

Originally posted by ummbikes
I have no idea what this thread is about.

I think this thread is gay...























About gays, but gay.

 

[shocktower]

Ok OK I know my grammer sucks ,but what the Hell are you so stupid you don`t get ,Ummm bikes we all know your excluded ,here`s what promted this thread ,my christian neighbor came by to offer me help because of my injury ,then we started talking about politics .He started ranting about how bad the new law GD was trying to pass on gays getting married ,it`s like WTF does your stupid book say live and let live .The way i look at it is if their rights don`t effect me or any other peoples then let them be married man to man ...

I just do`nt understand the christians and their coalition

 

[DaKahuna]

erosion of all morals is the key to the downward spiral this country is in. What I don't understand is how the gay lobby was able to get the recent law passed that basically says that if you own a business, even a Bible Bookstore!, and one day a male employee comes to work wearing a dress, YOU CAN'T FIRE THE EMPLOYEE!!!

That is sheer lunacy to me

Interestingly enough, today I actually had a 1.5 hour converstion with a woman I'd never met before about her belief that there is NO right or wrong at all. Right and wrong just simply don't exist in her world! The conversation went pretty deep into her belief in reincarnation, karma, and how our existence on earth in a physical form is meant as a learning experience. In her world, Osama Bin Laden was put here to teach us all something, and the people who died actually chose to do so and were part of helping us all to learn something. Good and evil don't exist either. Murder, child molestation, etc are all just decisions people make. I even asked her if someone was attempting to rape her, could she defend herself, or would that be passing judgment that what the attacker was doing was wrong? She didn't have a very good answer for some questions and just straight avoided several. Very, very strange conversation. When she mentioned karma and reincarnation I asked her if there was no right or wrong, why did you stock up "negative" or "positive" karma? She believes that you are continually reincarnated until you learn what you are supposed to learn. But I asked her why, if there is no right or wrong, do you ever have to come back? Was it because you didn't do something right? Or because you did something wrong?

This is the extreme end of where the moral decline takes you. To a place where you are not allowed to judge any decision that someone makes as bad or wrong. ALL law is based on morality, without it you are left with anarchy.

The truth of "good" and "right" is to be found in Christian morality, but I do believe that today's Christian community is way off the mark in myriad ways, to the point that I can't be a part of the established church system. The fact that there are 1001 different "Christian" denominations that all supposedly have the best way to follow God is the prime example.
And that's all I have to say about that....

 

[ummbikes]

Originally posted by shocktower

I just do`nt understand the christians and their coalition

Honestly, I don't buy into the Christain coalition either. They are for the most part interested in futhering a neo-concervative agenda and creating an environment where our society is further divided. For what means I am not sure. I just know that as a Chrisitian and a political science student that I studied some of the Religious Right's poilcy ideas that are not remotely similar to anything Jesus spoke about in the Bible.

Remember there is such a thing as the Christian Left and there are plenty of Christ centered organizations doing really beneficial things for the "least of us."

 

[DaKahuna]

I'm curious about that. Would they be pro gay and pro abortion?
Don't even get me started on ordaining gays for Christian ministry - lunacy and abomination.
And to be absolutely clear, a pro-abortion Christian is an oxymoron.

This is exactly why I believe the current Christian church system is doomed.

 

[ummbikes]

Originally posted by DaKahuna
I'm curious about that. Would they be pro gay and pro abortion?
Don't even get me started on ordaining gays for Christian ministry - lunacy and abomination.
And to be absolutely clear, a pro-abortion Christian is an oxymoron.

This is exactly why I believe the current Christian church system is doomed.

The gay issue is being fought over by Episcopalians and others. The fact you see it is as an "abomination" is fine, I disagree. Gays are people who deserve grace and forgiveness as much as you or I. I'm as contradictive as it may seem, I am horrified with abortion and horrified with many churches blantanly hatefull treatment of gays.

Welcome to the political forum!

Check out some of the work done by the American Friends Service Commitee for an idea of what a more "left" leaning denomonation (Quakers) does for missions work.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Originally posted by shocktower
as long as the activitys you are invoulved in have no effect on another person why fvck with them ,I just don`t get it .Why do people worry about so mutch about others who`s life style has no effect on theirs

Becuase thats simply not the case here as much as you'd hate to believe it. I know ive explained my take on this before, but i'll put it out there again.

Giving gays the right to marry creates the the impression that gays have finally been accepted as an equal to heterosexuals in every respect, and that they should get equal treatment, likely subsidizing and protection from the federal government. Once they're recognized as a true LEGAL minority, plans like affirmative action will be be forced to include gays in their quotas because if they dont, they wont be promoting DIVERSITY This doesnt go with just colleges either, some straight guy at your job might get fired to make room for a gay guy. And as you say...what does it matter who they have sex with right? That shouldnt determine who gets a job or gets into school , but rest assured it will have an effect on down the road if laws like this pass or continue to pass.
And look now at how text books are being rewritten all the time, imagine having to have X-percentage of same sex marriage pictures in you social studies book because the system gets sued for only promoting heterosexual marriages. Or imagine having your 6th grade kid having to choose whether to go to gay or straight sex education. Terrible idea.
To me, all this stuff is just not practical because it relates to such a small part of the population and effects the majority of it on down the road. Im no chrisitan but i can definitely see where they come from on this one. It just creates way more probems than it fixes.

 

[DaKahuna]

But it is wrong to say it is ok to STAY homosexual and be a Christian, it's impossible!

Christianity teaches that homosexuality is wrong, there's no logical way to debate that. I'm not speaking to those who don't believe in Christian teaching, no need to.

But you cannot achieve salvation without desiring to completely turn from all sinful ways. I'm not even coming close to saying you have to be perfect before you can ahcieve a Christian salvation, quite the contrary, there's nothing that can be done to achieve it. But you cannot ask for salvation from some things, but not others. If you hold back on any area, you are not truly seeking salvation, and are not receiving it!

There is a difference between welcoming (and hoping for!) homosexuals to be saved just like everybody else, and allowing them to continue to PURSUE a sinful path after seeking salvation. You can't put people in leadership positions who haven't pursued a total turning away from their past. Nobody is perfect, but you have to want to be!

Burly -
Nice examples of the fruit (pun!) that would be born of homosexual acceptance!

umm -
the "fight" over this issue among all these different "Christians" only furthers my point about the current state of Christianity.
How can the same God be supposedly telling his followers such different truths! The church is not listening at all, and hasn't for quite some time. God would not tell you that homosexuality is ok, but tell me that it is wrong. I respectfully submit that one of us must be wrong.

Like I said before, all systems of laws are based on morality, without laws you have anarchy. This country, like it or not, is based on Christian morality. I believe it is the source of our totally unprecendented success as a country. But it will be lost if we continue as we are.

 

[Silver]

Originally posted by DaKahuna
This country, like it or not, is based on Christian morality. I believe it is the source of our totally unprecendented success as a country. But it will be lost if we continue as we are.

Actually, the United States is only very remotely based on Christian morality, and it's pretty much been that way from the very beginning. I don't even know where to start with this statement....

 

[ummbikes]

Originally posted by DaKahuna
But it is wrong to say it is ok to STAY homosexual and be a Christian, it's impossible!

Perhaps, it would depend on your interpretation of what the new covenant is.

Originally posted by DaKahuna

Christianity teaches that homosexuality is wrong, there's no logical way to debate that. I'm not speaking to those who don't believe in Christian teaching, no need to.

This is open for interpretation. If we follow the Mosaic law then we all have broken some of the rulings. I truly beleive that we operate under a new set of rules as laid out by Jesus.

Originally posted by DaKahuna


But you cannot achieve salvation without desiring to completely turn from all sinful ways. I'm not even coming close to saying you have to be perfect before you can ahcieve a Christian salvation, quite the contrary, there's nothing that can be done to achieve it. But you cannot ask for salvation from some things, but not others. If you hold back on any area, you are not truly seeking salvation, and are not receiving it!

Of course the turning away from sin is a key part to the whole Christian deal. Once again though I don't believe that being gay is a sin. Being gay and sleeping around clearly is, as it is for heterosexual people.

Originally posted by DaKahuna

There is a difference between welcoming (and hoping for!) homosexuals to be saved just like everybody else, and allowing them to continue to PURSUE a sinful path after seeking salvation. You can't put people in leadership positions who haven't pursued a total turning away from their past. Nobody is perfect, but you have to want to be!

We are nearly on the same page here. People who are openly embracing their sin shouldn't be leaders in the church.

Originally posted by DaKahuna

umm -
the "fight" over this issue among all these different "Christians" only furthers my point about the current state of Christianity.
How can the same God be supposedly telling his followers such different truths! The church is not listening at all, and hasn't for quite some time. God would not tell you that homosexuality is ok, but tell me that it is wrong. I respectfully submit that one of us must be wrong.

Yep.

Originally posted by DaKahuna

Like I said before, all systems of laws are based on morality, without laws you have anarchy. This country, like it or not, is based on Christian morality. I believe it is the source of our totally unprecendented success as a country. But it will be lost if we continue as we are.

Hmm, there were leaders who took part in the creation of our country who were Christians. The laws of our country have roots in MANY religions though. The Judeo Chrisitian philosophy of justice doesn't have a copyright on a disdain for theft and murder.

 

[DaKahuna]

In the 1300's, only the clergy of the Catholics and the church of England had Bibles, and only they were allowed to (and educated to) read the Bible (still only in Latin or Greek). Wycliffe decided to translate it into english for all people to have access to. He died not long after, but made the Pope so mad that he ordered Wycliffe's body dug up and burned because he had so damaged the church's control over the people.

The settlers who landed at Plymouth Rock were comprised mostly of Christians who were outcast (actually they fled from persecution) from the church of england because they believed that every person should have and be able to read a bible. After the Jamestown colony disappeared (first attempt at settling the new world), nobody wanted to volunteer to try settling here again. Many of the Christians returned to England from places they had fled to (like Germany and Holland) to volunteer to go to the new world in hopes of getting away from the old world and the oppression of Catholicism and the church of England. This nation was their destiny and their legacy.

Silver - The list of how our gov't was based on Christianity is way too long to pursue! It's far from "remotely based". ALL MEETINGS that dealt with the declaration of independence and the forming of our constitution were opened with prayer to the Christian God. While recognizing the need for a separation of church and state (that's why they left England!), their definition of that separation was vastly different than the way it is defined now. Most states REQUIRED their congressional representatives to profess a belief in Christ, starting with the delegates to the original continental congress, and continuing through many years. The list goes on and on...

UMM - the "new covenant" did not abolish the law, it expanded upon it! The New Testament explanation given by Jesus in Matthew 5 defines it so completely, you can't go around it. That's where the old act of adultery vs. lust in the heart = adultery example is given too. This applies to homosexuality as well. The method of redemption, the possibility to be truly changed beings through the indwelling of God in us, that changed. The defintion of sin did not. There was a group of first century followers who were decieved into believing that they could do anything they wanted to because of the availability of forgiveness. That ideology was condemned.

I am more than willing to continue this thread, but I honestly just noticed (I am a newbie here) that on the forums home page they request "no preaching" in this forum category. I didn't start the thread, but think I shouldn't continue "preaching" here. Please pm me for further correspondence. I truly enjoy the interaction here with fellow riders!

 

[fluff]

Originally posted by builder666
I think this thread is gay...


About gays, but gay.

I think smileys suck..

 

[neversummersnow]

This is to Shocktower...

I didn't bother reading the responses but really, you've got to learn how to use a little bit of grammer. I too am guilty of not spelling things perfect or finishing all my sentences, but I've seen third graders type things that are far more understandable then anything I've read by you.

I don't know whether to read it or send you a dose of riddlin, really, its incredible how out of control your writing is. You type like a teenage girl talks....

Just settle down and type your complete thought on the keyboard without putting a comma followed by a period.