This is a great thread for the Olds.
What Should Have Been & The Glory Days Of Downhill Thread.
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I also did the hucker thing. My first bike was a clapped out Karpiel Armageddon with a Mr. Dirt upside down fork with bent lowers. After dropping into a few gravel pits and launching it off some double stairs I sold it for the Yeti DH8 built to huck.
i had a 1st gen monster. agreed that it's best features were the stiff chassis & well lubricated open bath guts (compared to many other forks of the era that needed to be cleaned / lubed on a very regular basis for any semblance of non sticktiony suppleness). damping was certainly primitive; compression seemed nonexistant. my next fork, an xvert carbon, was much more sophisticated in that regards, and weighed something like 4lbs less. though required much more maintenance, and ended up cracking.
ALSO - SWEET OLD DUDE REMINISCING THREAD
kept on going for a couple more years till i decided to retire it for something less porky...
Ron
To be clear, I’m talking about the 03 and later model. The 02 and before was the old no-low speed support and trying to make up for that with super light damping and almost no rebound. Pretty much no chassis stability.
Never tore into a moto fork from the same era, but I believe they did actually share most of the internals with the trials forks. Everything about the Monster and Shiver were caveman, just like OEM Moto forks, never had them apart at the same time, but when I first got my WR450 and tore down the fork for a rebuild it was just a Shiver, scaled up 1.5x. Don't see why Zoke wouldn't have used parts they already had lying around to make the Monster. Moto is where they got the 40mm stanchions and seals for sure, wouldn't be shocked if all the internals came from a 40mm moto fork and they simply removed a couple shimz and then the lowers were machined presumably to save money vs. a casting.
I'm not convinced the second gen Monster was really ever supposed to be a production fork, hence all the cost cutting. The 888 had to be in the works when the Monster v2 was being designed, so they were building a pure huck fork. They knew they'd only ever sell a few, because the 888 was so, so much better as a race fork, then it turned out the 888 was also a better freeride fork, so they sold off the Monsters over a few years and that was that.
Maybe there were two runs of Super Monsters? Teh googlez has lead me here https://mbaction.com/marzocchi-reveals-its-2003-secrets-july-1/
Could also be a case of the initial production run being tiny, and thus "sold out"
Could also be a case of the initial production run being tiny, and thus "sold out"
i remember hearing that only a few hundred of the super monsters were ever made... might have been the inside line podcast with Bender?
That first 888 and 66 were pretty messed up, I remember an A to C that was way longer than it needed to be for the travel, like inches longer. Something about a fixed lower crown and jacked up casting? It was sorted in 2006?
if the V2monster has actual damping carts that worked and not the crude V1 stuff, I would have preferred that. The 888 was never really decent until the rc3 ti evo type R wrx zr1 edition.
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and they had that fancy color changing finish that turned custom green after about 2 weeks...
For like 6 minutes, I owned a monster T and was totally blown away by how supple it was, especially after my 2010 boxxer. The fork moved through its travel when it hit a bump. Unfortunately, it seemed to move through its travel with virtually anything. A light breeze, maybe.
I was under the impression that the older 7" forks had actual dampers, and the newer ones were horrid. I never rode either in anger though.
I was under the impression that the older 7" forks had actual dampers, and the newer ones were horrid. I never rode either in anger though.
would have been awesome at the time, but we have come a long way since then. I had a racelink for several years and it was perfect for going slowly through the woods in maximum comfort. Handled like shit compared to newer bikes. I moved from that to a sunday and it was night and day. The BMW was far more comfortable, but the sunday was ~15lb lighter and the geometry let you go so much faster. Who would have thought a triangulated rear triangle would have been stiffer than two t00bs that are 17" long? The jackshaft was a true innovation though- it really did pedal well without a mile of chain, but I recall it being a mild nightmare to reassemble. Plus the frame was 14lb and my complete bike weighed in at 54.Any of you still own a BMW or SUperCo? I think he still does DJ frames but not certain. How much do you think FTW would charge to make one of these or would he even do it? This is from VITAL.
Redirecting...
www.vitalmtb.com
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Flashback - Superco Silencer Prototype DH Bike
In January 2009, Chris *Doc* Boudreaux showed us his prototype Superco Silencer downhill bike. Designed and handmade by Chris in Utah, the Silencer was a light, aggressive and refined version of the jackshaft DH bikes he had been creating for...www.vitalmtb.com
This is an interesting read: http://www.ridesuperco.com/2008/landscape/ but it doesn't cover half the drama that unfolded with that company/relationship. For some reason everything is a secret, even though it's been like 15 years since it went down. Woody has a superco jump bike, which is really sweet, and I have like 900 stickers if anybody wants one.
So the original had two "rebound" cartridges. That was they had two cartridges with crude riveted pistons for compression and an orifice rebound valve. They were extremely crude, even for the state of technology when they were released. MotoX knew better, but this was the era of "mtb riders don't really need shit that works, because mtb is like, just for fun".
This was basically the same setup in most every bomber, until they started coming out with cheaper ones and single-sided ones.
Then in 2000? They did a version that as a "compression cart" and a "rebound cart", this was harsher in compression. It supposedly introduced some kind of compression adjustment, but I never sawed apart one of these. It's probably likely that it was some kind of choking/orifice valve that simply closed off the flow with no blowoff. That was the state of things in general (here's a completely useless adjustment just so you can have more turny things!).
The next two years, they went back to rebound carts.
Then in 2003, they released the new redesigned-chassis Monster with the 200mm and 300mm versions, aka, the "Super Monster". These supposedly had "MX cartridge dampers" and the damping was different than the original stuff I was quoting above. This is what I am really curious about, if they really did have some kind of mx cartridge with real pistons/shims, check valves, etc. As I recall, it had more than "rebound" adjust, it had some kind of compression adjust. Or was this just a giant heavy 12lb chassis with the same old "HSCV" dampers? Within the 200mm there was also a super-cheaped out version if I recall, like Jr T, with the completely orifice-damping?
But even the later stuff that Marzocchi made was ultra-crude, the bladder TST was basically just a piston that drove a bladder with some kind of coil spring blowoff inside. I forget the particulars, but it was only like a "charger" or "FIT" in that it "had a bladder", it was otherwise handicapped by not having the required parts to make it actually absorb bumps well. Same thing with RC3, it had an orifice compression adjustment that simply made it harsher, same check-valve orifice rebound valve. Not sure the compression "piston" was actually an "upgrade" from the original HSCV. Just a crude heavy coil spring backed thing. I know there are cartridge-fork emulators using push-rod or displacement technology (Push makes one) that can do a pretty decent job, but this was not such a thing.
I had a few Monsters and I really appreciated the chassis. I think that's the one thing that we keep stupidly trying to "fix", just to save a few lbs or be able to do stupid X-ups or something. We didn't have creaky-ass forks back then running Monster Ts. I eventually "upgraded" to an 888, but in stock form it was pretty bad, what it lost in weight it did not gain back in performance. The Avy cart in the 888 made it perform pretty well, but the Monster T was a good example of how chassis rigidity is a critically important thin for absorbing impacts. Seems like the industry right now is really trying to do any and everything to avoid having to build DC forks, except they have pushed beyond what makes sense for SC forks in terms of travel and a-to-c.
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I have pictures of all my bikes pretty much from when I started racing in 95 till now. It's terrifying to realise the car and house I could have had if I'd invested that money on something other than anodised aluminium parts and poorly made components.
1996 Worlds in Cairns.
Actually, I'd probably say the most visually spectacular racing was towards the end of the 26" bikes and before 29" wheels were introduced.
That trail only barely resembles what's in that video now after a couple of big fires up there, and erosion...from rain and rockslides, believe it or not, rather than mountain bikes, which actually ended up doing fuck-all for erosion once large chunks of the mountain decided to go for a slip'n'slide.
The whole thing is much rougher now, but the fastest times are being set being set by 140-170mm 29'ers. I don't think anyone was ever setting times in in the 7's. There are a bunch of different places to start timing from, and a couple to stop timing from, but none were ever THAT short.
Didn't Honda have two different versions of their gearbox DH bike? One that used a derailleur and one that used some kind of reciprocating CVT? I can't find any info on the CVT version. Perhaps it was all in my head, I was eating a lot of mushrooms back then.
Yes. Second iteration was basically diab. I recall hearing the first version was some manner of transmission, and they moved away due to the complexity/cost and minimal benefit.
Had fun with this eventually cracked frame and destroyed adjustable cams..had a spare lol
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now that UCI rules have have changed further, we'll never see a program like Honda again. closest we got was 1 season of cannondale testing that crazy dual shock bike 2-3 years ago.
Cannondale Gemini? Wasn't that that like.....12-13 years ago?
how much have you been fucking drinking?
A Closer Look at Cannondale's Wild 2-Shock DH Bike - Maribor World Cup DH 2019 - Pinkbike
Attention armchair engineers: Cannondale's return to top-flight DH racing includes two rear shocks, an idler pulley, and a lot of carbon fiber.
My bad.....20 years ago....
mbaction.com
CANNONDALE UNVEILS THE GEMINIMARCH 13 - Mountain Bike Action Magazine
CANNONDALE UNVEILS THE GEMINI?MARCH 13 (Click on photo) MBA scooped the rest of the best when we announced Cannondales Scalpel: a 22-pound XC racer that
mbaction.com
The newer version occured during my brief hiatus from bikes, admittedly. But I don't see the fucking difference 
The difference is Cannondale was relevant back then. They used to be commonplace on the trails, but I don't think I've seen one IRL in yearsThe newer version occured during my brief hiatus from bikes, admittedly. But I don't see the fucking difference
you're not wrong, but it was nice to see c'dale trying something crazy at the WC DH level again, if only for a season.
also I believe c'dale still uses a dealer model (vs consumer direct), so unless there's a local dealer you probably won't see many of them.
c'dale isn't totally irrelevant, but they're certainly not what they used to be.
c'dale isn't totally irrelevant, but they're certainly not what they used to be.
I was 16 and lived with members of the MTB club in Cairns that summer (The Mud Cows). We rode the DH course while they were putting finishing touches on it and did a race on the XC course. That's when I knew I needed to parlay my XC success into getting a DH bike. I've been planning to go back since but haven't made it. It was a big year for MTB tech with V-brakes, Bombers, and the long travel GT "boomerang" frame all introduced while I was there.
Nah I'm in Brisbane, like 1700km away and couldn't get there. Went down to the Stromlo events but Cairns was iconic. Palmer vs Nico... dammit.
same. i still have a 2000 silver with the red stickers and a 2001 black with black stickers up on the wall. i had 3 and like many others, i had illusions of the barstool idea, but i never got around to making the cross brace parts and eventually gave one away..
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Here’s one of mine. Long gone. You and I swapped upper crowns oh so long ago...
I've got a set of carbon Dorados and my 32mm Boxxer from 2009-2013. I'd love a set of Shivers and a Monster T. I always keep an eye out for them in the classifieds but it would appear I'm not alone in my old man dreaming cos they go quickly.
I'd love a set of the Z1s I first had with the dual disc mounts and bolt on arch and crown.
So that would make a total of 7 forks?
Stuff was bolt-on right up until the cyrofit with the M-arches, right?