I quite like the 2.4 DHR 2 WT front tire on my hardtail. I mostly ride on hardpack trails. I run a 26" wtb vigilante in the rear. It rolls ok, surprisingly. High volume too.
What trail bike tire casings don't suck?
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For me the limit on tire volume was found when I tried 2.6 WTs on 35mm rims - too imprecise. I've mostly moved to 30mm rims and 2.5 Maxxis WTs and 2.35 Schwalbes and have been happy with the increases in traction and feel, but wouldn't want to go any more high volume.
Surprisingly good article from Bikeradar comparing 2.3, 2.6 and 2.8 tires.
https://www.bikeradar.com/mtb/gear/article/whats-the-fastest-tyre-size-for-mountain-biking-53304/
https://www.bikeradar.com/mtb/gear/article/whats-the-fastest-tyre-size-for-mountain-biking-53304/
Did they share how they measured the times? I mean, making claims on .4s / .3% is bold. Do they know how statistics works?
Anybody know how fast Seb Scott is? Seems relevant if he's racing pro or midpack cat 3. A fat tire might make a slower rider faster and a faster rider slower I would think, which jives well with my circumstantial evidence that when I tried 2.8 tires back in the day, they rolled over constantly (until I was running the same pressure as I did in 2.5's), velt vague and imprecise, and lost traction more frequently in hard corners. That was what, 6 years ago at this point though, and I have precisely 0 difficulty believing tire casings have improved since then. They'd probably suit me well now that I'm slow as shit and dream of ebikes. Do they make an ebike specific tire?
watched that. a couple of things came to mind:
1. same rim width. it has been established that tire width and rim width operate as a system. mis-matching tire/rim width as he did will compound the negatives at the extremes.
2. personal preference. i don't like the vague feeling fat tires bring. even if it's marginally faster.
ok, so 3 things...
3. longevity and tire/rim damage. Fatter tires are more prone to damage, as are the rims. I don't want to be replacing rims and tires all the time.
edited to add:
1. same rim width. it has been established that tire width and rim width operate as a system. mis-matching tire/rim width as he did will compound the negatives at the extremes.
2. personal preference. i don't like the vague feeling fat tires bring. even if it's marginally faster.
ok, so 3 things...
3. longevity and tire/rim damage. Fatter tires are more prone to damage, as are the rims. I don't want to be replacing rims and tires all the time.
edited to add:
yes
was curious about that also: https://www.rootsandrain.com/rider13833/sebastian-stott/results/
Looks to be decently (mid pack pro) fast. All things considered I think he did a really good/thorough test on tires given the equipment available and how many variables there are to manage.
Though I understand what you're saying, the test is more practical than you think. I'm not going home to rebuild my wheel with a new rim cause I got a new tire that's .2" wider or narrower than what was specd on a bike. Neither are 100.01% of the people out there.
Other than new wheel builds, you pretty much nailed it.
We don't get a choice of rim on a new bike, you get what you get.
Unless you have the ability to build 3 for 4 wheelsets with the appropriate rim width spread for each tire size, then test each rim with each tire then parse the big matrix, this is about as good as your going to get.
Also at least he touched on the statistical significance of the results...
All in all, a pretty good effort for a dude out riding in the woods.
No, but plenty of people are waiting until they have to buy a new rim to "opt-in" to the wider-is-better way of life. I thought about it pretty seriously last time I had to replace rims. In fact, I'm still toying with the idea. But first I have to pick what size tire I want to run before picking what size rim to get.
Under appreciated comment right here.
Cool..... but I know a whole group of people who have more time and money to test this sort of thing. They're completely obsessed with every aspect of their bike setups, from rim width to taking the time to shave down center nobs on minions to make them roll faster. They've got access to stacks of rims and tires and have taken the time to ride them. They're called professional DH/Enduro racers. Guess what, there's nothing over 2.5 showing up on the WC/EWS (podiums). The fast people who have actually done the testing agree, big tires are slow and goofy to ride.
And WTF why skip over 2.5? As far as I'm concerned 2.5 up front and 2.3 in the back (unless you're somewhere super steep/crazy) is the way to go. 2.5 on both ends feels good but I can also feel it slowing me down when I'm trying to carry speed.
I'll make your life easy. 30mm rim with 2.5WT up front and 25mm rim and 2.3 in the back. Or for more traction run 30mm with 2.5WT both ends.
If you're a traction whore you can run a 3C MaxxGrip in the front.
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I get it. But changing between a 2.3 and 2.5 doesn't justify a wider rim. Aren't Schwalbe tires generally wider and maxxis narrower when compared side-by-side even though they are both 2.3" tires? I wouldn't but a new rim cause of that.
My i35 rims with 2.35" tires seem too wide. But my i30's seem perfect with a 2.5" & 2.6" tire. I personally don't think that the rim has to fit the tire by such a tight tolerance. For example, 2.3"-i27, 2.5"-i30, 2.6"-i33, 2.8"-i35. There are many other variables that can make a bigger difference.
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Tire shape have a combined effect with rim width on the final ride feel. Not all the square profile tires are equally squared, neither all the round profile ones are equally rounder. Rim width can exacerbate or negate some profile characteristics.
For instance, the Geax Goma 2.25 I'm running as a front tire is too round to be usable on anything narrower than i30, while the 2.4 HR2 I'm running as a rear has just the right balance (for my riding taste) between round and square on the same i30 rim. The Goma looks like an old tungsten light bulb on anything narrower than i30, and squirms like a caterpillar on narrow rims with less than 32 psi, since the rim isn't able to support the sidewalls.
On i30s it flats just enough as to let you notice it has side knobs, while on narrower rims it feels like it's completely slick outside of the rolling area.
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It's a pretty good tire for loose over hardpack and loamy trails, chunkier than advertised and with sturdier sidewalls than Maxxis' EXO. And on pure rock it ain't a Super Tacky, but it ain't no Kenda either.How are you still alive?
Pour in some rain and you'll end up with a wax cylinder worthy of Edison's early recordings...
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@Full Trucker to the white courtesy phone, please... @Full Trucker to a white courtesy phone.How are you still alive?
2.5" DHF 3C DH casing on the front, 2.5" DHF 60a DH casing on the rear, Cushcore both ends and a shit ton of sealant.
Rim width? I'm guessing 30 inner?
Flow MK3, 29mm internal and I wouldn't want a wider rim with the 2.5"Minion.
I know it's more tire than most people would want on a trail hardtail but it works for me, I'd rather be quicker in the fun bits over being faster in the boring bits.
I had a Der Kaiser Projekt and a Der Baron Projekt before the Minions, the, they rolled pretty slowly and I didn't like the weaker casings all that much, the grip was fine though.
I saw that bikeradar video and I'm thinking is it really worth purchasing the big tires for my hardtail given I mostly ride relatively smooth hardpack trails these days. I would like the extra cushion though.
FYI, I'm on 2.5 DHF or 2.35 MM front, 2.3 Maxxis or 2.35 MM rear - on ex471 rims.
Nevertheless it is a good article immo, he tried to do a test series in an analytical way, but he also stated that it is not flawless at all. I haven't seen this kind of article on the two major gravity advert sites in a while, if ever. Don't you agree?
The test for the tire widths also used new Spec Grid tires. The new tires have some paper thin casings. Even in 2.3. Beyond punture protection thicker casing typically has better rebound damping.
I've been riding on a 2.6 GRID gripton Butcher front / 2.3 rear for a while and never had an issue with the sidewalls. I've destroyed sidewalls of EXO tires before and I shred any Schwalbe tire to rags in no time but the new Butchers have been holding fine for me so far.
They suck in the wet but that is a different story.
They suck in the wet but that is a different story.
Agreed, it was a better article than most.
For tire and rim (width) choices, my strategy is to look at what the pros are running and use that as a base line. That became a bit difficult when I stopped running full on DH tires and moved to "trail" tires. But with the emergence of the EWS we can see what top riders select from the same tires we run on our trail bikes.
The most common setups for EWS pros seem to be rims around 30mm. Lots of minions in 2.5WT/2.4WT or magic marry in 2.35, maybe some narrower tires out back depending on the conditions. Lots of reinforced sidewalls (ie double down), especially in the rear.
2.35 DHF single ply 60a front. 2.35 bling bling single ply 60a rear
or
DMR MOTO RT front and rear
@Flo33 What compound Magic Mary do you run on the rear? and how much climbing do you do on it?
Just switched to a MM up front but a HRII rear and the HR is drifting every wet corner while the MM is nowhere near breaking loose. Kept thinking I had a flat at first. Don't know if I can cope with the drag of a MM on the rear and I don't like Shortys.
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The Magic really is an insane tyre. I haven't tried the Orange compound on the rear but a few people on the Trans BC were running that. I wonder if the new Hans Dampf is worth a shot for faster rolling? Worked for Maes...
Thanks. Had thought DHRII but they're such a nice front tyre I'm not sure I could cope with the thought of wearing one out on the rear. will keep an eye out for them at a bargain price.
[EDIT] Hahaha... Found one online for £25.99 in less than 5 minutes. sorted!
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Yeah I'm running a purple MM front and a DHR2 rear. The rears get cooked quickly but I'm basically just running everything to death now because I don't want to put on new tyres till racing starts again. The MM/DHR2 was a good combo for me in BC this year (supergravity/DD casings).
The aggressor rear is really only good for dry stuff imo. It rolls a bit nicer than the DHR2 but is kinda hopeless if things get wet and rowdy. If its dry enough for the Aggressor, I'd probably have it paired with a Minion DHF.
I experiment with harder compound/lower rolling resistance tires in the rear from time to time, but still wind up going back to matching soft rubber meats front and rear. Lately it's been Magic Marys in the winter and, MMs, DHFs or DHRs in the summer, although the latter may be replaced by Eliminators. I just love the feeling of high speed traction.
Schwalbe
Anybody know if the rumour that the Performance Line Addix compound is the same as Addix Speedgrip is true? That would open up some more options, 'specially for the back end.
Anybody know if the rumour that the Performance Line Addix compound is the same as Addix Speedgrip is true? That would open up some more options, 'specially for the back end.
Just got a few rides on the WTB Vigilante. Threw a 2.5 high grip on the front end. It's a bit tall and felt weird at first but once I got used to it I was absolutely loving it. More grip in the mud and loam than I've ever had before and handled fine over wet roots and rock. I took a chance on the lighter casing so we'll see how it holds up.
@djjohnr so far I like it better than a Magic Mary
@djjohnr so far I like it better than a Magic Mary
I've been trying the WTB Judge 29x2.4 on the back of my Honzo, the 2.5 Aggressor it replaced just wasn't upto what I was throwing it at.
1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th impressions are "WOW I LOVE THIS TYRE!"
it's out gripping the 29x2.5 Minion DHF on the front.
and inspite of it's agressive knobs and hefty weight penalty, it's not noticeably slower on the climbs.
Nice thick sidewalls, looks like it's going to be pretty tough to wreck.
1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th impressions are "WOW I LOVE THIS TYRE!"
it's out gripping the 29x2.5 Minion DHF on the front.
and inspite of it's agressive knobs and hefty weight penalty, it's not noticeably slower on the climbs.
Nice thick sidewalls, looks like it's going to be pretty tough to wreck.
WTB tires are like Crank Bros anything for me... it’ll be a few more years before I’ll spend money on those.
Tread looks standard enough, though.
Magic Marys are the ticket where I am. I’m sticking with those for the foreseeable.
DHFs if I bother swapping them out for summer road trips.
Tread looks standard enough, though.
Magic Marys are the ticket where I am. I’m sticking with those for the foreseeable.
DHFs if I bother swapping them out for summer road trips.