[brungeman]

What would you do?

So I was on the weekly Wednesday evening ride, when we came upon a section of trail that has a couple of trees that are fairly close together but they are staggered a bit on the trail, so you kinda wiggle your bike and your bars are through. If you know the section you can do it at speed. Well last night we get there and one of the trees 60+ feet tall, and 7” around was cut down! The stump was left standing about 2 and a half feet tall. All the riders in our group were like WTF!!! super pissed/completely dumbfounded!

There is a local guy who belongs to our local Off Road Cyclist club who I know pretty well, but who hasn’t been cycling long. He has been cutting unnecessary trails, just for the sake of having something new to ride. I have told him before that “just because you can ride your bike on it doesn’t mean it is a good MTB trail! You have to pay attention to flow” although I have been pretty diplomatic and tried to explain and teach him trail building and maintenance, the club he (and I for that matter) belong to, has some members that have been pissed at him before and told him to quit FVCKING WITH THE TRAILS!

Well the club runs group rides every night and it just so happens that this guy(who just happens to be the prime suspect) was asked to take over the beginner ride for the club. So Weds. are his beginner nights. I knew that he was riding the same park, so I rode fast to try to find him. Our group caught up to him at a wait point. I acted all nonchalant and said “hey have you ridden that Devils Elbow section? Its super fast” He with a big smile on his face was all happy and stoked to take credit for the tree being cut down.


***Added history*** when I started MTB’ing back in the late 80’s early 90’s most of the parks in our area were off limits and illegal for mountain bikers to use. Some of my friends received tickets in the same park the above incident happened in, for riding the trails. It was looked at by the local authority/government that MTB’s tore up the trails and the riders didn’t respect the trails or the other users. I have been active locally to help promote trail advocacy, and trail access. The reins have loosened slightly, but we are still under intense scrutiny any time something happens, on the trails no matter what it is our fault. For example, a few months back we were told a certain section of trail is now off limits to bikers because of abuse of the park. When I myself talked to the park official, he stated that the bikers had gone through the park and used neon spray paint to mark every root, and trail intersection. After doing my own research, I found out that it wasn’t bikers, but a group of hiker/trail runners who did it. The park will not let us back on these trails even with the proof that it wasn’t bikers.


What would you do?

I will comment on what I did when I see some of your reactions!

***Added history*** when I started MTB’ing back in the late 80’s early 90’s most of the parks in our area were off limits and illegal for mountain bikers to use. Some of my friends received tickets in the same park the above incident happened in, for riding the trails. It was looked at by the local authority/government that MTB’s tore up the trails and the riders didn’t respect the trails or the other users. I have been active locally to help promote trail advocacy, and trail access. The reins have loosened slightly, but we are still under intense scrutiny any time something happens, on the trails no matter what it is our fault. For example, a few months back we were told a certain section of trail is now off limits to bikers because of abuse of the park. When I myself talked to the park official, he stated that the bikers had gone through the park and used neon spray paint to mark every root, and trail intersection. After doing my own research, I found out that it wasn’t bikers, but a group of hiker/trail runners who did it. The park will not let us back on these trails even with the proof that it wasn’t bikers.

 

[MudGrrl]

dude, this has already been posted....


jeez man, get with it already...

 

[urbaindk]

http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156230

Here you go. Your bro beat you to the punch.

 

[brungeman]

sorry I will remove it! I was out covering study hall

 

[Cooter Brown]

I would chop his head off and stick it on the stump to remind future offenders to not f#ck with trees on your trail, also make a necklace from his ears and fingers to show people at your local tavern as a portable reminder

 

[JRB]

If you remember what I did on the Ride of Silence, you can likely guess what I would do.

 

[Tenchiro]

I would chop his head off and stick it on the stump to remind future offenders to not f#ck with trees on your trail, also make a necklace from his ears and fingers to show people at your local tavern as a portable reminder

 

[urbaindk]

I voted speedbump.

 

[brungeman]

If you remember what I did on the Ride of Silence, you can likely guess what I would do.

I remember you were pissed at people breaking traffic laws but I can't remember the over all outcome? refresh please?

I would chop his head off and stick it on the stump to remind future offenders to not f#ck with trees on your trail, also make a necklace from his ears and fingers to show people at your local tavern as a portable reminder.

I should have added that as a poll option because it was talked about throughout the ride!

I voted speedbump..

neaky: me too!!!

 

[TreeSaw]

I would chop his head off and stick it on the stump to remind future offenders to not f#ck with trees on your trail, also make a necklace from his ears and fingers to show people at your local tavern as a portable reminder

 

[manhattanprjkt83]

Steal his bike and replace it with a hybrid so he can ride paved trails (like apparently he likes)

 

[DRB]

Create one more thread about this to show exactly how pissed you are.

 

[Slugman]

Castration by blowtorch... then do something painful

 

[JRB]

I remember you were pissed at people breaking traffic laws but I can't remember the over all outcome? refresh please?

I just publicly called them all out. I have only ridden with one of them, and he stopped at signs. Had he not stopped on Sunday, he would have been hit by a lady that blasted through a stop sign. She acted surprised she did it, but had we not stopped, we would have been in the intersection and likely run over.

Tell him about how the owner of Hammerhead Bikes cut the hell out of his hand with a chainsaw two weeks ago.

 

[Westy]

Had a conversation with someone in charge of building a new trail that went something like this.

Dude: we need to cut this tree down.
Me: Why?
Dude: It is too close to the other tree?
Me: Dude it is so like far away from that other tree.
Dude: In 20 years the trees will be much thicker and too close, we need to build trails that are sustainable over a long period of time.
Me: (shaking head) Dude, when those trees grow too close I come and cut them down myself, or send my great grandkids to do it. Lets just let the tree stay where it is for now.

 

[stosh]

The lounge is like the Twilight Zone today....

 

[dhbuilder]

I voted speedbump.

better yet, make him into the lander off a jump.

 

[manhattanprjkt83]

Report him. Make sure the park knows that he acted in a manner that does not reflect the actions of the club. IF he illegally alters a trail, that puts the majority of riders at risk of losing trails, he should fry for it.

This is shaky ground because the park has a pretty cool hands off policy, we have been instructed on how they want the trails built, if we start pointing fingers and bringing this negative attention to the spotlight it wont bring good things...

As a trail builder in the area, it might be a pain to "police" this area. I think this situation needs to be handled amoungst mtb riders...

 

[geargrrl]

Report him. Make sure the park knows that he acted in a manner that does not reflect the actions of the club. IF he illegally alters a trail, that puts the majority of riders at risk of losing trails, he should fry for it.

 

[robdamanii]

Report him to the park administrator and local bike culture. If they know one of their own is hurting the trails they love, he won't be welcome for long.

If all else fails, as I said in the GMT, eat his face. Or his firstborne child.

 

[brungeman]

New additions to the story...

He just emailed me. I am pissed but I kinda feel sorry for the guy cause he just doesn't get it.

Hey-

I think that was handled all wrong, and I don't appreciate being yelled at like that.
My point is that the tree messed up the flow of the trail, besides always causing riders on my porc ride problems.
It too late now to fix it.
I am not all about removing trees and log crossings, but when the **** up the flow then they gotta go.
I could have cut my bars, but I like them as they are.

Other than that I don't want to be on your **** list like the "OTHERS".
So I am not about to let this little thing come between friends.

We are going to Moraine on Saturday and I still want you and the guy's to come out if you like?.

R

in past conversations I told him how trails should flow!!! well these trees were a small tech section that were actually in a slower section, so the flow wasn't interupted. Now he is using my term flow in his arguement. I think that he just doesn't understand that there are different trails for different skill levels within this park, illustrated by his comments about his "PORC" (Pittsburgh Off Road Cyclist) people having trouble on that section. this is like the equivalent of someone going to a ski resort and bulldozing all the hills so they are now all GREEN CIRCLES, cause some beginner skiers have trouble on the "BLACK DIAMOND" trails!

I told him to cut his damn bars down instead of cutting trees down, and you can see his response!

 

[brungeman]

Report him to the park administrator and local bike culture. If they know one of their own is hurting the trails they love, he won't be welcome for long.

If all else fails, as I said in the GMT, eat his face. Or his firstborne child.

not being a freak, but his first born is a fat little FVCK! I wouldn't eat either!

 

[robdamanii]

New additions to the story...

He just emailed me. I am pissed but I kinda feel sorry for the guy cause he just doesn't get it.



in past conversations I told him how trails should flow!!! well these trees were a small tech section that were actually in a slower section, so the flow wasn't interupted. Now he is using my term flow in his arguement. I think that he just doesn't understand that there are different trails for different skill levels within this park, illustrated by his comments about his "PORC" (Pittsburgh Off Road Cyclist) people having trouble on that section. this is like the equivalent of someone going to a ski resort and bulldozing all the hills so they are now all GREEN CIRCLES, cause some beginner skiers have trouble on the "BLACK DIAMOND" trails!

I told him to cut his damn bars down instead of cutting trees down, and you can see his response!

So basically he's saying his bike isn't right for the trail, so he's going to chop it out until the trail fits his bike?

If the trail is too technical for him, even if it's just a part of it, skip the trail or skip the part. You're supposed to LEARN how to clean something, not chop it down so you can clean it.

Believe me, there are plenty of things I'd like to cut out to make some trails in the HV easier, but I've learned how to handle them (some of them, some still screw me up). There's satisfaction in progressing and clearing a tough spot. There's no satisfaction in ruining the trail.

 

[brungeman]

So basically he's saying his bike isn't right for the trail, so he's going to chop it out until the trail fits his bike?

If the trail is too technical for him, even if it's just a part of it, skip the trail or skip the part. You're supposed to LEARN how to clean something, not chop it down so you can clean it.

Believe me, there are plenty of things I'd like to cut out to make some trails in the HV easier, but I've learned how to handle them (some of them, some still screw me up). There's satisfaction in progressing and clearing a tough spot. There's no satisfaction in ruining the trail.

exactly!!! YOU HIT THE FVCKING NAIL ON THE HEAD!!!

the only problem with his bike being the wrong bike for the trail is.... are you ready? He rode my Yeti 575 for 2 minutes one night and loved it so he bought the same bike. He has the same bars as me! and not to be a skirt, but he bought the same exact color etc. hense the reason Manhattan called him a poser in the GMT thread. He has copy catted one aspect of each of the guys that hang out in our local shop. I could go on for an hour explaining and giving examples, the Yeti being just one.

 

[Fredzilla]

I would chop his head off and stick it on the stump to remind future offenders to not f#ck with trees on your trail, also make a necklace from his ears and fingers to show people at your local tavern as a portable reminder

You could also lop off the top of his cranium with a bonesaw and use the empty cavity where his brain should have been for a planter.

 

[JRB]

So he is trying to make amends and you won't have it. I hate narrow trees. I hate stopping for trees. I won't cut one down, but I don't ride some trails because of trees.

Apparently you forgot to tell us this guy holds you in fairly high regards as a friend. He was trying to be civil. If you can't accept that he f*cked up, which he realizes he did, he is better off not riding with you. Food for thought.

 

[brungeman]

So he is trying to make amends and you won't have it. I hate narrow trees. I hate stopping for trees. I won't cut one down, but I don't ride some trails because of trees.

Apparently you forgot to tell us this guy holds you in fairly high regards as a friend. He was trying to be civil. If you can't accept that he f*cked up, which he realizes he did, he is better off not riding with you. Food for thought.

agreed, I think that I have tried to work with him, and explain why others were pissed when he would do something like this.

let me give you a parallel, (I hate to go back to my roots but teaching is what I do) it is the last few days of school for us, and I just realized about 2 weeks ago, that a kid that I have been supporting and sticking up for when other teachers are bagging on him, is now being a total FVCKUP. he made me look like an A$$ for supporting him! I finally stopped giving him the little talks, and finally said "you are a senior in HS, and you are pulling the same crap you did when you were in 2nd grade! I have stuck up for you, and supported you in all your activities and this is the way you show me appreciation?" I then told him I was done sticking up for him, and that he was on his own. Yesterday he got suspended for talking back and being disrespectful! I could explain to him why people were upset, and we would talk about him not acting up etc. and 2 periods later I would get a call about him. I feel like this totally parallels this story!

 

[JRB]

I understand your frustration. I also know that yelling doesn't help things. It's kind of like the kid, but kind of not. He'll get it when everyone abandons him. If you yelled and cursed at him, that was not cool. I read a somber tone from his email. Decide if a tree is really worth a friend. If he is a friend and you are a friend, a beer and a talk about the frustrations will go a long way.

 

[brungeman]

I understand your frustration. I also know that yelling doesn't help things. It's kind of like the kid, but kind of not. He'll get it when everyone abandons him. If you yelled and cursed at him, that was not cool. I read a somber tone from his email. Decide if a tree is really worth a friend. If he is a friend and you are a friend, a beer and a talk about the frustrations will go a long way.

agreed. It is funny that you say "abandon" because I think that as we rode, we saw a couple of riders here, and a couple there that were in the original group he was leading. Riders were peeling off of his ride, after I said what I said. I think they realized what a dolt he was for doing it!

another point that I haven't mentioned is that with his enthusiasm about cutting it. I could just see him telling all of these beginners that "this is my handywork" as they passed the tree, and "I made it easier for you to get through"! Then all of those new MTB'ers riding away thinking that if a trail is to tough with trees, deadfall, rocks and roots, that it is OK to come back another time and cut the trees/roots, remove rocks and deadfall, just to make it easier for them!!!

 

[MisterClean]

I remember you were pissed at people breaking traffic laws but I can't remember the over all outcome? refresh please?

He called someone a hypocrite after talking on a ride of silence, the silence part was to respect cyclists who have been killed by motorists. Ironic, isn't it?

 

[brungeman]

** update **

I was told by Manhattan that he was text messaged by the perp, of said tree slaying yesterday for a ride this weekend! I guess I am no longer on his text message list but Manhattan apparently texted him back

"hey how about you quit planning rides and get to work putting that tree back up!"

I started laughing when he told me!

Also I talked to one of the head guys in the club we belong to, and the guy almost flipped, then he calmed down and just said, don't ride with him, don't talk to him it is worthless. He then proceded to tell me that for as long as the perp has ben a part of the club, he has been doing this renegade trail maintanence in the name of the club, and causing problems which MANY MANY people have talked to him about!

I am going to head back into the park today or Sat. morning, in order to take photos of the "scene of the crime" cause as they say... this thread is worthless with out :redX:

 

[manhattanprjkt83]

I have to add some humor to this thread, brungeman went out last night with a CHAINSAW and cleared a few trees on our new trail hahahhaha

these were dead ones across it though...

Sorry man had to!

 

[brungeman]

I have to add some humor to this thread, brungeman went out last night with a CHAINSAW and cleared a few trees on our new trail hahahhaha

these were dead ones across it though...

Sorry man had to!

it would be funny if I didn't have permission to cut dead stuff out

 

[BuddhaRoadkill]

Who the F cuts down live trees for trail? No, really. Does anyone? [other than the forest service with their 3 foot wide wheelchair access roads]

 

[brungeman]

Who the F cuts down live trees for trail? No, really. Does anyone? [other than the forest service with their 3 foot wide wheelchair access roads]

a guy we know!!! I am still dumbfounded by it!

 

[RenegadeRick]

Who the F cuts down live trees for trail? No, really. Does anyone? [other than the forest service with their 3 foot wide wheelchair access roads]

We cut down crap trees like buckthorn, and honeysuckle, but we would move the trail before we would ever touch an oak or any other quality tree.