What y'all doing to your Fox 36 this winter?

djjohnr · Jan 3, 2017

If you want custom valving it's hard to go wrong with Push, although I haven't tried the HV air piston. If you just want the latest stock valving send it to Fox. I sent one of my '15s in for warranty work and they updated the tune to the latest free of charge. Both my '15s feel damn good (I'm 185 out of the shower and running much more then 50psi).

Jeremy R · Jan 3, 2017

I was in the same boat as you with the 2015. It worked OK, but I had to run low pressure as well. I ended up on the 2016 model 36 on my Patrol and it has worked great all year. Also, I have a 2017 fox 34 on my hardtail, and it feels just as good as my 36. I am not sure what direction you should go in, but an updated damper or Push tune seems like a good idea.

canadmos · Jan 3, 2017

I guess I got lucky with my 2015 36. I'm running upwards of 90-93psi in mine and it seems okay (I'm probably 210-215lbs). It feels good, but I think it could feel better. It still dives a little more than I desire under braking, but if I up the compression too much, then it gets too chattery.

I have been thinking about sending it in somewhere, along with my Fox Float CTD shock (or just replacing that with a Cane Creek something or other). The rear shock definitely needs some loving.

Push would be super expensive for me up in Canadia, what with shipping and the exchange rate. Anyone use Vorsprung?

Happymtb.fr · Jan 3, 2017

I have a brand new 2016 36 Fit4 since a month ago. I found it harsh but ok when its above freezing, 10ºC (50ºF) or above, but it becomes noticeably harsher when the temperature drops below freezing... like no small bump sensitivity at all.
Is it only me or do you guys experience the same thing?

I swap the Gold oil for the green one and lower the LSC which improved the situation a bit, but it is still harsh.
I run around 70psi and one orange token for 70kg (155lbs). I didn't try lowering the pressure and adding more tokens yet, it's on my to do list. I am also in the process of removing a negative plate spacer in order to increase the size of the negative chamber, while removing the air shaft I noticed some stiction from the piston so that a rebuild might help.

There are some people having overfilled Fit cartridge. I wonder how do you know if your cartridge is overfilled?

Something else I could look at?

djjohnr · Jan 3, 2017

Temps have been in the low 40s here lately; no issues with my two '15 36 RC2s.

Metamorphic - try calling Fox, tell them that you need to run really low pressures and the fork still feels harsh. There's a pretty good chance they'll take it in as a warranty and just fix it for free. Wouldn't hurt to give it a shot.

Nick · Jan 3, 2017

@Metamorphic
I've sent forks to Fox for service and received updated parts. Call in and discuss with them when getting your RA# and maybe you can be assured of it

That said, if service is overdue and you aren't thrilled with stock performance, IMO you can't beat PUSH for service and tune.

SuboptimusPrime · Jan 3, 2017

My experience mirrors Metamorphic's. I'm likely to send off to PUSH as I've had such luck with them over many years now. Out of curiosity, what was the cost on just getting a rebuild (and hopefully updated internals) from Fox?

Kanye West · Jan 4, 2017

Wait, you've had a shitty-performing top-dollar fork for over a year and just dealt with it? And the solution is to throw another 20% of the fork cost at it with a 3rd party to MAYBE get it working the way it's supposed to?

Manufacturers need to get beat over the head with their non-functioning crap when they keep putting out duds year after year. No excuse for not having the "parallel-sliding tubes and some pistons" problem absolutely nailed by now. We're, what, over 15 years into the 150mm+ forks at this point?

SuboptimusPrime · Jan 4, 2017

Kanye West said:
Rant

I get where you're coming from but I actually think the 36 I have is still the best fork I've ever had for its purpose even if it wasn't perfect. I think most forks are better after a custom tune--hard to fault the manufacturer for this.

jackalope · Jan 5, 2017

Damn, I feel kinda guilty that my '15 Fox 36 has been essentially flawless after over a year of abuse that even a rented, red-headed step-mule would find appalling. Adjustments work well, no crown creak, air pressure is about where Fox suggests, and mine has somehow avoided the dreaded (if fictional) wallowed out bushings syndrome. I put in a bigger volume token per dan-o's instruction, but otherwise, its been set & forget.

Having said all that, it will likely catch on fire the next time I ride it, but based on the weather forecast in my area code, it will be awhile before I find out.

djjohnr · Jan 5, 2017

I bought two OEM '15 36s. One was the 180mm version and has been perfect since day 1. The other was one of the Backcountry ones; it felt shitty out of the box so I sent it to Fox, they replaced the damper with the latest free of charge and it's been money since.

velocipedist · Jan 5, 2017

canadmos said:
...snip.....Anyone use Vorsprung?

The Corset is the best upgrade I ever made, different bicycle afterwards ('13 Bandit / '13 Fox Float CTD), and so much better in my opinion. Would definately use Vorsprung for tuneage, doubly so were it the convenient localish option.

canadmos · Jan 5, 2017

velocipedist said:
The Corset is the best upgrade I ever made, different bicycle afterwards ('13 Bandit), and so much better in my opinion. Would definately use Vorsprung for tuneage, doubly so were it the convenient localish option.

Which shock?

djjohnr · Jan 5, 2017

I put a Corset on a 2014 Fox Float CTD and it made a significant difference. Bike was a Yeti SB-75.

velocipedist · Jan 5, 2017

canadmos said:
Which shock?

'13 Float CTD

Udi · Jan 5, 2017

canadmos said:
Anyone use Vorsprung?

Honestly the only hands other than my own that I'd ever have touching my suspension.

Vorsprung / Steve are the real deal, if you tell them what you want in as much detail as possible, I wholeheartedly trust they'll make it happen.

Sandwich · Jan 6, 2017

steve m from vorsprung used to be a regular poster here, I've had multiple conversations with him and he tuned my rp23 to not be such a shit box back in the day. would gladly do regular business with him, though he's on the opposite coast. I don't think he tunes monarchs either (mostly fox stuff).

as for the fox 36, nothing. Been the best out of the box fork I've ridden. Used udi's tech tips to dial in the damping and haven't really touched it. Added a small volume spacer for the last ride, but found that I actually preferred it with fewer. That's about it.

jstuhlman · Jan 6, 2017

Sandwich said:
udi's tech tips

where is this? didn't see it in the stickied section . . .

mrgto · Jan 6, 2017

My 16 36 has been harsh since day one. Feels like a jack hammer when things get rough and fast. Big hits feel great. I'm running zero compression damping and I've tried rebound fast and slow with no real fix.

I'm going to try the negative spacer removal fix to see if that helps and if that doesn't work I'll give fox a shot to fix it.

My last resort will be the avy cart. I'm sure its the best option, but I'm not ready to spend the coin yet. I don't think the added weight is that bad either. You have to remember that your replacing the damper not adding another damper so some of the weight is offset.

LAP · Jan 6, 2017

mrgto said:
I'm going to try the negative spacer removal fix to see if that helps and if that doesn't work I'll give fox a shot to fix it.

Like a lot of other monkeys, I got my 36 last year from Backcountry. The thing was a fucking jackhammer excepted when landing (semi) big hits. I got it tuned by the suspension tech at Dunbar who apparently used to worked at Fox. He removed something like 5-6 shims which made the fork significantly more compliant. Its still too stiff for me though (bad combo of weighting 135lbs and being slow). That negative plate/spring tuning seen on mtbeer seem easy enough to worth a try.

Sandwich · Jan 6, 2017

jstuhlman said:
where is this? didn't see it in the stickied section . . .

from a snapchat sesh we had one night:

@Udi: i forget if i said this already, but the hot ticket for setup on that stock RC2 damper is HS fully closed (maybe 2 clicks opened at most, if you feel harshness) and LS 8-12 clicks in from fully open depending on taste, the less you can get away with on LS the better

if with HS fully closed you feel the need for more than 12 clicks (in from open) of LS, go up a spring rate or revalve the damper... most people don't know how to set the damper up right though and jump the gun

This was me asking for advice on a 40 tune. I also asked about a 36 tune, and he suggested it would be similar. I backed off much more on HSC, but it's wound down pretty good. Then LSC is somewhere in the middle, I think. I love that fork. I readjusted my 40 to be more like my 36 using the same settings. Not sure that it worked though, the tunes are probably a bit different.

atrokz · Jan 6, 2017

Sandwich said:
steve m from vorsprung used to be a regular poster here, I've had multiple conversations with him and he tuned my rp23 to not be such a shit box back in the day. would gladly do regular business with him, though he's on the opposite coast. I don't think he tunes monarchs either (mostly fox stuff).

as for the fox 36, nothing. Been the best out of the box fork I've ridden. Used udi's tech tips to dial in the damping and haven't really touched it. Added a small volume spacer for the last ride, but found that I actually preferred it with fewer. That's about it.

Steve is great. Yes, he used to post here more often, we joked about this recently as we've been discussing shop stuff a bit through work. He's working on fox more it seems, but they do import DVO as well, and he's got some new things on the go that they are working on. Has a super rad lathe I've wanted for a while now.

Flo33 · Jan 6, 2017

Sandwich said:
from a snapchat sesh we had one night:

@Udi: i forget if i said this already, but the hot ticket for setup on that stock RC2 damper is HS fully closed (maybe 2 clicks opened at most, if you feel harshness) and LS 8-12 clicks in from fully open depending on taste, the less you can get away with on LS the better

if with HS fully closed you feel the need for more than 12 clicks (in from open) of LS, go up a spring rate or revalve the damper... most people don't know how to set the damper up right though and jump the gun

This was me asking for advice on a 40 tune. I also asked about a 36 tune, and he suggested it would be similar. I backed off much more on HSC, but it's wound down pretty good. Then LSC is somewhere in the middle, I think. I love that fork. I readjusted my 40 to be more like my 36 using the same settings. Not sure that it worked though, the tunes are probably a bit different.

Was this really his advice for 2015 or younger generation RC2 damper? I rode my pre 2011 rebound adjuster on top cartridge this way and there is a thread @Udi recommended it like this. Maybe he can clearify himself.

Sandwich · Jan 6, 2017

this was what he said when I asked him about my 40 FIT cart (blue on top). Not sure what has changed if any. It's a little harsh for me and now I've backed out the HSC quite a bit, but that was my starting point.

mrgto · Jan 6, 2017

atrokz said:
Steve is great. Yes, he used to post here more often, we joked about this recently as we've been discussing shop stuff a bit through work. He's working on fox more it seems, but they do import DVO as well, and he's got some new things on the go that they are working on. Has a super rad lathe I've wanted for a while now.

Tell me moar aboot this super rad lathe!

Udi · Jan 7, 2017

Yeah that recommendation was for the older damper.
I think the general take home message (that still applies to the new gear - if you have a good, correctly working fork) is that you should run some decent/generous amount of HS and ideally ~1/2 or less of the total LS range for a supportive but not very harsh setup.

However - there have been a few problem cases with the newer '15+ 36 being excessively harsh/sticky even at minimum settings, and it's not everyone's fork. I think these should be sent back to Fox (or a good service center) with a very clear and precise description of the problem (and make sure you state that it is indeed a problem) so that it can be addressed.

Ultimately a fork too harsh at minimum settings for whatever reason (chassis / stiction issue or interal valving that is too firm) should be fixed before even considering damper setup.

Sandwich · Jan 7, 2017

udi, is that true for the 40 FIT cart (blue on top)? or for the OG blue on bottom setup?

ChrisRobin · Jan 7, 2017

@canadmos: Consider Suspensionwerx in North Vancouver. You have to ship but still in Canexico. They're the Canadian distributor and shop for Push.

Maybe a year and a half ago, I picked up a '15 Fox 36 29er. It was 'meh' in comparison to previous forks with Avy dampers. Developed this knocking sound. Turns out it was the damper. Got a local place (Suspensionwerx) to update the internals and add the Ohlins piston with some custom tuning (the CDN peso took a dive so Avy became out of the question). The fork worked fairly well but not a lot of mid-speed damping or support. After a bunch of months, I got them to do the full Push service with the Ohlins piston. Love the fork now. Plus they're proactive and check your fork in detail. They found the porosity was shitty (to put it in layman's terms) in my 15 lowers and through Fox they got me 17 lowers. They also replaced my stealth decals.

Re. added weight of the Avalanche cartridge? Negligible considering the benefts.

Won't be doing anything to the 36 this year since I finally like it.

FarkinRyan · Jan 8, 2017

Not to beat a dead horse here but if you're running 50psi at your weight then there is likely something wrong with the fork that needs to be addressed before you consider further tuning options. Would be interested in getting into your air spring personally, 'needing' to run super low pressure is a classic symptom of something being awry in that leg.

FarkinRyan · Jan 8, 2017

Sandwich said:
udi, is that true for the 40 FIT cart (blue on top)? or for the OG blue on bottom setup?

If you have the OG (compression knobs on the bottom) setup and it's starting to feel excessively harsh over time your damper is likely overfull and needs to be serviced.

Cau Boi · Jan 17, 2017

I think the best upgrade by fox in the next 36 is a big sticker on it: "WARNING! HARSH, RACE PRO FORK NOT FOR SELFIES''

atrokz · Jan 17, 2017

mrgto said:
Tell me moar aboot this super rad lathe!

http://www.nakamura-tome.co.jp/products/en/turret/as-200.html

Some of the better lathes on the market. This size is perfect for me, one day. one day.

(well that along with the DMG eVo, and a thermo fisher Niton XL5)

mrgto · Jan 17, 2017

atrokz said:
http://www.nakamura-tome.co.jp/products/en/turret/as-200.html

Some of the better lathes on the market. This size is perfect for me, one day. one day.

(well that along with the DMG eVo, and a thermo fisher Niton XL5)

I havent got to play with a Y axis lathe yet. I hope to buy one in the future as it would work really well for what I do in my shop. I currently use all manual machines but I would rather buy a machine like that then hire a bunch of people. I can't get anybody to give a shit about working anymore.

atrokz · Jan 18, 2017

mrgto said:
I havent got to play with a Y axis lathe yet. I hope to buy one in the future as it would work really well for what I do in my shop. I currently use all manual machines but I would rather buy a machine like that then hire a bunch of people. I can't get anybody to give a shit about working anymore.

it's harder and harder to find competent workers, let alone competent machinists. huge gap in skills for this industry, lots of people in it, lots of people who have no business machining. what product(s) do you make?

mrgto · Jan 18, 2017

atrokz said:
it's harder and harder to find competent workers, let alone competent machinists. huge gap in skills for this industry, lots of people in it, lots of people who have no business machining. what product(s) do you make?

I agree. The industry is full of button pushers these days. I did my apprenticeship under some old school guys. I started from the ground up. I need to get my feet wet in 4+ axis programming now. I've never had access to machines like that.

I am currently doing work in the nuclear industry and prototype work for the national laboratories. Its fun, the work is constantly changing.

Kanye West · Jan 19, 2017

mrgto said:
prototype work for the national laboratories.

Which one(s)?

mrgto · Jan 19, 2017

Kanye West said:
Which one(s)?

ORNL mainly.

What y'all doing to your Fox 36 this winter?

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