[mrgto]

I just serviced my 36 and took all the negative chamber spacers out. It only has the negative plate on it now. I'm running it in the 160mm setting. It feels way better in my shops driveway but I'll take it out on the trails tomorrow.

I did have to take the fork up to max psi for 20ish% sag but I'm 235lbs on a good day. I was already close to 100psi before. I am running 1 orange token. I have a feeling I might need moar.

I am gonna try Udi's recommended setup to start and see how she runs.

 

[Jm_]

I just serviced my 2017 32 SC, left a message for fox techs yesterday. They actually called me back. Not sure if this has to do with the end of the world and Trump, but it was nice to have a responsive manufacturer that actually tried to get back to me. Not only that, but it actually had oil in it from the factory too!

 

[mrgto]

I ordered a few parts last year from Fox and they left out one item. I called them up and they had it to me the next day on the east coast.

Not too shabby, now if they could get consistent results with their forks ffs!

 

[LAP]

I just serviced my 36 and took all the negative chamber spacers out. It only has the negative plate on it now. I'm running it in the 160mm setting. It feels way better in my shops driveway but I'll take it out on the trails tomorrow.

I did have to take the fork up to max psi for 20ish% sag but I'm 235lbs on a good day. I was already close to 100psi before. I am running 1 orange token. I have a feeling I might need moar.

I am gonna try Udi's recommended setup to start and see how she runs.

Curious to get your feedback about the removing of the negative chambers spacer. Did it have a noticeable effect on the feeling of the fork?

 

[mrgto]

Curious to get your feedback about the removing of the negative chambers spacer. Did it have a noticeable effect on the feeling of the fork?

I rode it last Sat but it was on a pretty smooth trail and it was wet.

Initial impressions set up with Udi recommendations
HSC 4 clicks from closed
LSC 12 from open
Rebound was full closed per Fox for my weight (240lbs w gear)

It was the best the fork has ever felt since I've owned it BUT i really haven't put it thru anything like I normally would since I was on a smooth flow type trail because everything is nasty here now.

I did feel like the fork did not give me enough pop off jumps set up like this so I'll have to dial that out.

I'm no suspension guru but, with the higher pressure it wasent as bad as before with the negative chamber spacers in.

 

[Udi]

It was the best the fork has ever felt since I've owned it BUT i really haven't put it thru anything like I normally would since I was on a smooth flow type trail because everything is nasty here now.

I did feel like the fork did not give me enough pop off jumps set up like this so I'll have to dial that out.

To get a little more pop you could try many things:

- Less rebound (stop: if springing back at you too fast in bermed corners)
- Less LSC (stop: if diving excessively in corners / g-outs)
- Less HSC (stop: if diving excessively in corners / g-outs)
- More spring pressure

I'd try one or two clicks less rebound first, and then if that's still not satisfactory (or causes other problems), back off a click of LSC and then HSC (in that order one at a time). An extra few psi at any point may also help, particular to restore a bit of support if you reduce the compression. Remember that increasing compression damping increases energy dissipation on the downwards stroke as it adds resistance, while increasing spring rate increases energy storage (elastic potential energy - returned on rebound stroke) as it adds resistance - so you can get a little more pop for a similar level of support.

Hope that helps + enjoy!

 

[mrgto]

To get a little more pop you could try many things:

- Less rebound (stop: if springing back at you too fast in bermed corners)
- Less LSC (stop: if diving excessively in corners / g-outs)
- Less HSC (stop: if diving excessively in corners / g-outs)
- More spring pressure

I'd try one or two clicks less rebound first, and then if that's still not satisfactory (or causes other problems), back off a click of LSC and then HSC (in that order one at a time). An extra few psi at any point may also help, particular to restore a bit of support if you reduce the compression. Remember that increasing compression damping increases energy dissipation on the downwards stroke as it adds resistance, while increasing spring rate increases energy storage (elastic potential energy - returned on rebound stroke) as it adds resistance - so you can get a little more pop for a similar level of support.

Hope that helps + enjoy!

I would increase spring rate but I'm at the PSI limit of the fork right now. I am however getting the proper sag (barely) at 125psi. I don't know if the max PSI would change since I removed the negative plate spacers. I'm in uncharted waters at this point....

I didn't feel like support was a major issue as I had plenty of unused travel according to my oring. This trail is smooth but has plenty of berms and pump track type jumps and small doubles.

I'll try your suggestions tomorrow on the same trail (since it just rained again tonight) and see where that gets me.

I'm just waiting on a excuse to get a Avy cartridge. I use to do track days all the time (before kids) and I always had to get custom tuned suspension at my weight because I was outside the range of "normal" weight for motorcycle suspension.

I'm just trying to make this fork work without spending more on it since it's not a year old to me yet.

 

[Happymtb.fr]

Curious to get your feedback about the removing of the negative chambers spacer. Did it have a noticeable effect on the feeling of the fork?

I removed one negative spacer on my 36 and it made it noticeably less harsh on small chatter.

Did one of you came across somebody machining shorter neg plate tubes for the 36 Float?
It would be a nice way to increase the volume of the negative chamber for certain combinations of travel and air shaft length.

 

[djjohnr]

I removed one negative spacer on my 36 and it made it noticeably less harsh on small chatter.

Did one of you came across somebody machining shorter neg plate tubes for the 36 Float?
It would be a nice way to increase the volume of the negative chamber for certain combinations of travel and air shaft length.

There was a guy on the Pinkbike forums that machined his own and was considering producing them, check there.

 

[Happymtb.fr]

There was a guy on the Pinkbike forums that machined his own and was considering producing them, check there.

Thanks DJ!
I checked with him already but he doesn't seem to be interested...
I think I will try to find someone with a lathe instead!

 

[canadmos]

I would increase spring rate but I'm at the PSI limit of the fork right now. I am however getting the proper sag (barely) at 125psi. I don't know if the max PSI would change since I removed the negative plate spacers. I'm in uncharted waters at this point....

I didn't feel like support was a major issue as I had plenty of unused travel according to my oring. This trail is smooth but has plenty of berms and pump track type jumps and small doubles.

I'll try your suggestions tomorrow on the same trail (since it just rained again tonight) and see where that gets me.

I'm just waiting on a excuse to get a Avy cartridge. I use to do track days all the time (before kids) and I always had to get custom tuned suspension at my weight because I was outside the range of "normal" weight for motorcycle suspension.

I'm just trying to make this fork work without spending more on it since it's not a year old to me yet.

125psi. Holy crap.

 

[mrgto]

125psi. Holy crap.

Yes. I agree

 

[mrgto]

I'm gonna ride it a few more times then call Fox and see what they say.

The fork feels great until I hit rough chunk at high speed then it just goes to shit and rattles my teeth out.

 

[92SE-R]

Correct me if I'm wrong, removing the negative plate spacer does not increase the negative volume, it increases positive chamber volume. I see guys doing this and not changing transfer rod hole, which I don't see how that does anything.

 

[Happymtb.fr]

Correct me if I'm wrong, removing the negative plate spacer does not increase the negative volume, it increases positive chamber volume. I see guys doing this and not changing transfer rod hole, which I don't see how that does anything.

Let me try to explain with my home made English!

When the transfer hole allows the 2 chambers to communicate, it equilibrate the pressure between these 2 but it does not equilibrate the forces generated by the positive and negative chamber since the area on the positive is slightly bigger : Force = Pressure X Area (to be 100% correct there is no force to speak of when the chambers communicate since they are leaking into each other...)
So from the position where the chambers communicate, the forces on each side of the piston will tend to balance themselves: the bigger force on the positive side will extend the fork and as it does it will also increase the volume of the positive chamber and therefore progressively reduce its magnitude (intensity? ). With the fork extending, the negative chamber will get smaller, the negative pressure will build up until the force it generates on the piston will equate the decreasing force generated by the positive chamber.

In real life and with the recommended settings, I don't know if the 2 chambers do equilibrate before the piston starts to compress the top out bumper... either it does not or it does in which case we need to add a compression force to the force generated by the negative chamber on the piston. I guess that the bumper will be at least slightly compressed. Maybe somebody with more insight can confirm?

With the increased negative chamber and same transfer rod position, the pressure in the negative chamber will ramp up more slowly for a given displacement of the piston so that it should yield more exposed stanchions at equilibrium. It should only be a few millimeters since the negative chamber is still quite small compared to the positive one. We will now get a pneumatic top out and a negative spring which is closer to linear than the exponentially decreasing spring curve from the smaller negative chamber.

 

[mrgto]

I'm about over it. I like the 36 platform but the execution sucks. I'm glad I got a great deal on the fork. I'm going to send it out to Avy. I just don't have time to deal with this shit all the time. I've got 3 kids and when I can ride it's sacred. I need a fork that works and is fun. I'm big and 36mm stanchions and 20mm axle are great for me.

 

[Happymtb.fr]

Well, not sure if somebody knows that, bur I give it a try!
I wonder if I can move my RC2 damper from my 2013 36 Van 180mm to my 2016 36 Float 160mm?

 

[Sandwich]

I'm gonna ride it a few more times then call Fox and see what they say.

The fork feels great until I hit rough chunk at high speed then it just goes to shit and rattles my teeth out.

I feel this on my 40. Try backing out HSC? I tried the "udi" settings with HSC full closed and couldn't stand it on fast rough trails. Backing off HSC, and HSC only, opened up the fork for a little more comfort, especially on fast, smaller hits. I'll have to pull my numbers off my 36, but they're written around here somewhere. I am 205 dry and more than that suited up. I think I run 92 PSI in my fork last I checked.

 

[Electric_City]

I'm big and 36" stanchions and 20mm axle is great for me.

HOLY SHIT! 36" stanchions are the size of my waist!

 

[mrgto]

HOLY SHIT! 36" stanchions are the size of my waist!

Those are Brostanchions™. It's a new standard I'm working on with Fox, stay tuned!

 

[Sandwich]

I'm at 13 clicks LSC and 16 HSC from OPEN.

These are my settings for my 36. 29" with 130mm travel.

 

[Electric_City]

Those are Brostanchions™. It's a new standard I'm working on with Fox, stay tuned!

Will they include the Power Bulge™?

 

[Udi]

I feel this on my 40. Try backing out HSC? I tried the "udi" settings with HSC full closed and couldn't stand it on fast rough trails.

In fairness my original recommendation was for a different damper - I think that setup applied to the 40 until 2015 and 36 until 2014 (both inclusive) but the new (2015+) 36 followed by the 2016+ 40 switched to a 5wt damper fluid and revalved damper (with an updated piston) which seems to have mixed reviews.

I think it's definitely important to run the damping quite far open (particularly compression) at the first sign of any harshness/spiking issues, to make sure it's not a chassis or spring issue causing it.

I recall Hacktastic had a similar issue with his new 36 (definitely not the first I've heard of it either) but others on here like jackalope seem quite happy. I forget if they changed to the new piston and 5wt in 2016 or 2015 on the 36, if that was in 2016 then it would explain why the new fork owners are complaining and the old ones aren't.

@mrgto let us know how it goes after the Avy thing.

 

[Sandwich]

ah, well that would explain some things. My fork is a 2014 chassis with what I believe is a 15 FIT damper. Chassis is smooth, just too much harshness over fast and small bumps. Backing it off helped.

 

[mrgto]

Interesting video. I'll give it a try tonight.

 

[FlipSide]

@canadmos: Consider Suspensionwerx in North Vancouver. You have to ship but still in Canexico. They're the Canadian distributor and shop for Push.

Another vote for SuspensionWerx @canadmos .

I dealt with PUSH several times (Vanilla RC in ~2004 or so, DHX Coil in 2009, Float 34 and RP3 CTD in 2014). The results have always been stellar, but the border crossing aspect has always been anywhere between complicated in the best case, and nightmare-ish in the worst cases. Last month I sent my PUSHED fork and shock to SuspensionWerx and I only have good thing to say about the service. They are quite friendly and very professional. They take the time to provide all the necessary explanations if there are "surprises" when they open the fork/shock. In my case, they sent pictures to support their recommendation to replace worn-off components (air-spring assembly in my case, costly!). When applicable, they proposed either a straight replacement of the part or a simple (cheaper) re-grease that would lengthen the life of the part.

I am quite satisfied with my experience dealing with them.

 

[Happymtb.fr]

Interesting video. I'll give it a try tonight.

It is something I also noticed: the fork needs a certain size of impact to start moving. Bellow that it is rigid... quite disappointing for what should be the fork of the year by PB!
But some people just love it. Are they Fox''s fanboys or did they get a good exemplar?

 

[StiHacka]

Interesting video. I'll give it a try tonight.

Holy stiction batman! Ishty IFP?

 

[djjohnr]

I just tested both of my 36s and they exhibit the same behavior as what's in the video. However once I'm hitting things at speed they feel fine.

 

[Sandwich]

all my boxxers did that. it's a feature. Coincidentally, my suntour as well, before a good lubering.

 

[jackalope]

I just tried the gunt stem balance test and my fork went down an inch or so as one would expect.

Further evidence jeebus loves me more than you philistines.

 

[slimshady]

I just tried the gunt stem balance test and my fork went down an inch or so as one would expect.

Further evidence jeebus loves me more you philistines.

This might be the first time "less shimz" is the right answer.

Congratulations, you've just broken the Monkey

 

[Flo33]

How about some lowers service/rebuild procedure? A little clean, a little lube - magic!

 

[mrgto]

Did a fresh lower service and lubed her up good with slick honey. Equalized the negative spring per Fox instructions. Purged any air with a zip tie. All settings open.

I then copied the video and with 235lbs I planked on my stem and bar. The fork did not move an inch even when I did a push-up off the bars.

I don't see how this can be good. Is this the air spring causing this? If so even with an Avy cart it wouldn't fix this am I correct?

 

[jackalope]

Did a fresh lower service and lubed her up good with slick honey. Equalized the negative spring per Fox instructions. Purged any air with a zip tie. All settings open.

I then copied the video and with 235lbs I planked on my stem and bar. The fork did not move an inch even when I did a push-up off the bars.

I don't see how this can be good. Is this the air spring causing this? If so even with an Avy cart it wouldn't fix this am I correct?

I'd suggest getting right with Jeebus, since me and @SuboptimusPrime don't have any such issues with our 36's. And to be clear, this isn't as bad as it might initially seem, since we're both deplorable human beings who don't believe in sky wizards (well, other than Lemmy of course).

Failing that, you can buy mine since I just got it serviced and it feels better than cowboy boots full of vaseline.

Seriously, that is teh suck - I'd be pissed too. Just sell it as an "Aaron Gwin race edition" and get the new CC Helm or maybe a DVO Diamond.

 

[djjohnr]

Did a fresh lower service and lubed her up good with slick honey. Equalized the negative spring per Fox instructions. Purged any air with a zip tie. All settings open.

I then copied the video and with 235lbs I planked on my stem and bar. The fork did not move an inch even when I did a push-up off the bars.

I don't see how this can be good. Is this the air spring causing this? If so even with an Avy cart it wouldn't fix this am I correct?

Wow...mine will move if I put enough force on it, and I haven't done a service in awhile.

My test:

- H/L compression adjusters fully open
- Standing on bike, quickly cycle fork
- Stop cycling and slowly lean over fork

Result: fork doesn't compress any more, however if I start to press down at all it does. Of my two 36s, the one that I most recently performed a service on starts moving with less force.

I've never had a problem when actually riding compared to any other single crown non-inverted fork I've ridden. Based on what you're getting, I'd sent it in. If it helps I have the invoice from when I sent in my '15 36 for shitty performance out of the box, it lists the shim IDs they used for the valving upgrade.

 

[StiHacka]

Wow...mine will move if I put enough force on it, and I haven't done a service in awhile.

My test:

- H/L compression adjusters fully open
- Standing on bike, quickly cycle fork
- Stop cycling and slowly lean over fork

Result: fork doesn't compress any more, however if I start to press down at all it does. Of my two 36s, the one that I most recently performed a service on starts moving with less force.

I've never had a problem when actually riding compared to any other single crown non-inverted fork I've ridden. Based on what you're getting, I'd sent it in. If it helps I have the invoice from when I sent in my '15 36 for shitty performance out of the box, it lists the shim IDs they used for the valving upgrade.

Oh, they put moar shimz in yours?

 

[mrgto]

I'd suggest getting right with Jeebus, since me and @SuboptimusPrime don't have any such issues with our 36's. And to be clear, this isn't as bad as it might initially seem, since we're both deplorable human beings who don't believe in sky wizards (well, other than Lemmy of course).

Failing that, you can buy mine since I just got it serviced and it feels better than cowboy boots full of vaseline.

Seriously, that is teh suck - I'd be pissed too. Just sell it as an "Aaron Gwin race edition" and get the new CC Helm or maybe a DVO Diamond.

I would but I refuse to bow to the lizard gods and use a 15mm qr axle plus I need a fork for tiny wheels.

If I don't get drunk to early tomorrow I'm gonna have a chat with Fox and see what they say.

 

[mrgto]

Just talked to fox. Not much help really. He kept telling me it was probably a setup problem. I'm sending it in under warranty tho so we will see. Hoping for some jackalope juju.

 

[Electric_City]

Besides the 36 Talas, what other forks have on the fly travel adjustment and 20mm thru-axles?