Whatever happened to Balfa?
- Thread starter Grimey
- Start date
yes, balfa will be comeing back in 2006 don't listen to those who say otherwise
balfa is now owned by the same group that also owns rockey mtn . they plan to bring balfa back as their premier line
Well it's good to hear they will be coming back, as I just purchased a bb7. But why is everyone so certain? You guys have inside knowledge? Or are you just taking a guess? Because balfa still has their website up, it makes me think they will be coming back, but I seem to get conflicting reports.
Even if a new owner of the name brings Balfa back in 2006, it'll be like bringing back the Ramones with a bunch of no-names.
The guys who were designing, fabricating and welding the bikes are not there anymore. i.e.: Balfa as we knew it doesn't exist anymore.
so? i expect the line can only get better. It's not like they didnt have their problems, or were highly refined.FlipSide said:[/IMG]
Even if a new owner of the name brings Balfa back in 2006, it'll be like bringing back the Ramones with a bunch of no-names.
The guys who were designing, fabricating and welding the bikes are not there anymore. i.e.: Balfa as we knew it doesn't exist anymore.
Meh...we're gonna see about that.
I'm not too sure what problems you're reffering to...or how the "highly-refined" aspect should be even taken into account. The bikes were solid performers at a very reasonnable price...and were also very reliable.
The BB7 was costing a fraction of the price of the top DH frames (Foes, Intense, etc.), but was/is still a very competitive race bike.
The 2Step is probably one of the most under-rated frame in the industry.
The Belair is an amazing trailbike.
The Minuteman has been there for a long time...way before the mainstream companies realized there was a market for such bikes.
I'm not too sure what problems you're reffering to...or how the "highly-refined" aspect should be even taken into account. The bikes were solid performers at a very reasonnable price...and were also very reliable.
The BB7 was costing a fraction of the price of the top DH frames (Foes, Intense, etc.), but was/is still a very competitive race bike.
The 2Step is probably one of the most under-rated frame in the industry.
The Belair is an amazing trailbike.
The Minuteman has been there for a long time...way before the mainstream companies realized there was a market for such bikes.
undersized bearings, low-grade hardware (breaky breaky), design/fit issues with the swingarm shockmount and floating brake, shock clearance issues...FlipSide said:
the BB7 rear-swingarm design is a clever way of keeping costs down by elimanating complicated yoke designs and such.
I'm not getting down on them, i'm just saying they arent complicated or highly sophisticated bikes that would necessarily suffer under a new design/manufacturing team; in fact Procycle has the ressources to make these bikes better than their 'garage' roots.
As a Balfa Rider I can personaly say the number 1 thing people misinterpret about our bikes is how complicated they are. While they look complicated they are actualy incredibly simple. As far as the undersized bearings and low grade hardware go, I have yet have a problem with my bearings, and neither has a freind of mine who has been riding balfas for 5 years. The bolts have been upgraded to 12.1 aircraft quality on all 03 and newer bikes so that is not an issue either. Balfa still exists and you can still buy them. I love mine.
a couple of former welders for balfa are working for a shop here in whistler now....and procycle has owned them for a couple years now.....and they screwed the pooch large.....can't have a product that works better than, is cheaper than, and better spec'd than crappy rm7's..........
Balfa still exist under ownership from Procycle. They haven't stopped making frames at all. The 2004 frame was a refined version of the 2003. They will continue to be produced in 2005 and beyond.
No, none of the original people from Balfa are still there, but does it hurt to let new blood into a compnay?
No, none of the original people from Balfa are still there, but does it hurt to let new blood into a compnay?
They will not be producing frames in 2005 as far as I know.
As zedro said, they have issues. I used to work at the #1 balfa dealer on the planet, 2 mins from balfa, and in fact did allt he assembly on the balfa full bikes that were sold.
They had major issues. Chainline, chainrub, bolts hitting during suspension travel. Maybe good designs, but horribly, horribly executed.
And as for reliable? Most of you know nothing of balfa before they did their big push 2 or 3 years ago. So you don't know about the MANY bent and cracked frames (bobonum era). Balfa would simply reweld them and off you went..burn marks and all in the paint. Frames shipped misaligned, and they made excuses to compensate (it wont affect ride characteristics..um sure).
As zedro said, they have issues. I used to work at the #1 balfa dealer on the planet, 2 mins from balfa, and in fact did allt he assembly on the balfa full bikes that were sold.
They had major issues. Chainline, chainrub, bolts hitting during suspension travel. Maybe good designs, but horribly, horribly executed.
And as for reliable? Most of you know nothing of balfa before they did their big push 2 or 3 years ago. So you don't know about the MANY bent and cracked frames (bobonum era). Balfa would simply reweld them and off you went..burn marks and all in the paint. Frames shipped misaligned, and they made excuses to compensate (it wont affect ride characteristics..um sure).
From what I've been told workign for the UK importer is that they will still be producing bikes, but they will be unchanged from the 2004 models.
I can vouch for piss poor execution and attitude. I owned a 2-Step with bearing and rub issues. I almost owned a 2-Step DH with hidden manufacturer's defects and geometry WAAY off from claimed. I have also heard the angles on some of the minuteman were waay funky. Nothing to miss from them being gone :mumble:Transcend said:
Fall 2001 - Early 2002 Model Year 2-Step
The main bearing wasn't pressed properly and the rocker plate was being etched by the bearing. The seal on the main bearing was also destroyed by this defect. After numerous nagging calls it was finally agreed they would fix this error. They pressed in a new bearing, but did not give me a new rocker plate which was scored pretty deeply in one section.
2003 Balfa 2-Step DH
I received the 2Step DH and want to try my El Jefe shock. When I took the shock off, this is what I found under the washer/bolt, a double drilled shock mount hole - the first time they drilled the frames, it was a mistake (I was told on ALL frames from that batch!)
I was very upset that nobody informed anyone of this fact outside of the company. While I waited for a response, I decided not to ride the frame. I also happened to find out that this bike's BB was a full inch lower (advertised as 14" which is pretty low to begin with, but actual was 13" with their stock setup) and the frame also seemed to have some sandblasting material(I think) sealed in the tubes, when you tipped it one way or another you could hear it pour down from one end to another.
When I reached them and talked about the BB and shock mount issues they were very defensive and they said they didn't have time to deal with my "minor" BB and shock mount concerns. Without even me asking, they offered a return/refund.
They would not admit on the phone that this drilling was a defect/error and actually hung the phone up on me when discussing this issue. The first drill hole in the figure 8 is completely unusable, the Fox RC doesn't fit in that hole, it hits the downtube before it even reaches - obviously a mistake. As soon as I was treated to this level of customer support, I emailed them accepting their return resolution.
Just for fun, i went around with a megnetic inclinometer one day when i was bored. Not a single balfa had the same head tube angle (comparing like model obviously). It was ridiculous. Not to mention the belair and 2step has just about the worst chainline of anybike i have ever seen. On one of them the granny was COMPLETELY non functional...the chain would drag over the stays.syadasti said:
to add to Syadasti's edit: There customer service is that of legend. Call and bitch? You have a 90% chance that someone will hang up on you. We always joked about it at bromont. Hellt hey woudl hang up on us, and we were there assembler and #1 dealer!
ask ChrisRobin about Balfas in person, and you'll see something like this: :mumble:Transcend said:
there were paint grinding issues with his shops frames and Balfa gave the old 'well welding stuff together will always produce mis-alignments etc...'. True, but you shouldn't let that affect THE FINAL PRODUCT. Taking a dremel or adding ghetto-washers to a brand-new +3000$ frame to make it work properly is pretty pathetic. Not to mention 130lbs kids breaking bolts prematurely, or fully threaded shock bolts of a grade-spec and finish found on your patio deck.
Like i said, i think the designs needed some further maturing; there was still too much garage-fab ancestry.
and who knows, maybe Procycle was appalled at the lack of professionalism.
Do any of you guys actualy ride one. I can appreciate critiques but only from people who actualy know what they are talking about. Mine and my buddies frames are identicle in all angles and were both near to perfect alignment from the factory. As far as customer service goes, we always talk directly to the machinists and they are super cool.
maybe you should read again, we've all been 'exposed' to these frames in one way or another. I dont have to ride one to hear first hand of what the guys at the shop who deal them have to say, or dudes who own them at the mountain. What we are talking about is fit and finish and the company as it was in general.NateH said:
My small contribution:
Two of my riding partners run Minutemans (Minutemen?). One just had his replaced 2 months ago after cracking the chainstay. Don't know if they're working off old stock or if they started welding again. Took long enough for them to weld a new one, but that might've been post-9/11 customs. What I do know is not one of the 3 frames I've ridden has the same headtube angle.
Two of my riding partners run Minutemans (Minutemen?). One just had his replaced 2 months ago after cracking the chainstay. Don't know if they're working off old stock or if they started welding again. Took long enough for them to weld a new one, but that might've been post-9/11 customs. What I do know is not one of the 3 frames I've ridden has the same headtube angle.
Most of us talking about them are from quebec. We have seen more balfas then you have or ever will. Hell, i rode a bobonum for about a week before i said F this. I have also assembled a metric ****ton of them. I think I qualify as someone who knows what they are talking about.NateH said:
Zedro is also from Quebec, besides having seen all the people riding them and the bikes us close, he built his own bike. Although it looks bizarre, the fit and finish and thought that went into it are about 100x more then balfa ever put into a product.
If you happen to have 2 bikes with like angles, yeah great for you. I bet neither of them match the claimed angles. And "near perfect" alignment is not perfect.
NO frame ever made has perfect alignment, it a matter of how close you can get, I guess you must just be a WAY better rider than me if you can notice the difference between a .005mm deveation and a .009mm. In the end what realy matters is how you like your bike and I love mine, so stop bashing it and go ride your own.
well, the frame grinding its own paint is a good method of inspection.NateH said:
geez, a little sensitive are we?
btw, we arent talking about .005mm's...thats in the realm of bearing tolerances
NateH - I owned two and they were clearly subpar to industry standards. The worst ownership experience I've had since I got my first mountain bike in 1989 :mumble:
I know other Balfa owners who had issues with the frames - lack of standard frame dimensions within the same model and size frame and another who broke their MM. Heck I even heard from vendors that work with Balfa having problems with their personal Balfa bikes and how unresponsive they were to fix it. Zedro and especially Transcend are in a much better position to know what they are talking about rather than some random Internet lackey. Balfa got what was coming to them and they were clearly not doing the job right.
I know other Balfa owners who had issues with the frames - lack of standard frame dimensions within the same model and size frame and another who broke their MM. Heck I even heard from vendors that work with Balfa having problems with their personal Balfa bikes and how unresponsive they were to fix it. Zedro and especially Transcend are in a much better position to know what they are talking about rather than some random Internet lackey. Balfa got what was coming to them and they were clearly not doing the job right.
NateH said:
a little insecure are we?
.005mm = .0002" , and .009mm = .00035" On a good day the parts going into a jet liner dont even have that tolerance....
no you need a karpiel and a pre WWII russian planeGrimey said:
to set a couple things straight
1. Balfa will not be producing bikes for 2005
2. Procycle is trying to sell the rights to the balfa name to virtually any takers after they exhausted the list of former owners and designers who ALL rejected them.
3. Balfa made killer bikes for killer $$, but they did make some horrendous production mistakes over the past couple years that essentially led to their demise as a profitable company, it was nothing but damage control there the last couple years
4. I hope they do come back, they sponsored Team Dropmachine.com for 2 years and were great to us and that bb7 never let me down once.
1. Balfa will not be producing bikes for 2005
2. Procycle is trying to sell the rights to the balfa name to virtually any takers after they exhausted the list of former owners and designers who ALL rejected them.
3. Balfa made killer bikes for killer $$, but they did make some horrendous production mistakes over the past couple years that essentially led to their demise as a profitable company, it was nothing but damage control there the last couple years
4. I hope they do come back, they sponsored Team Dropmachine.com for 2 years and were great to us and that bb7 never let me down once.
FlipFantasia said:
Details are slowly being released about the new project:
9.5" travel via 3" stroke shock - Fox DHX/5th Element
Alloy front and either steel or alloy rear.
12mm x 150mm rear end spacing
Medium high single pivot with high chain line
Expected build weight of 11lbs
Pictures may follow later, I'll just need to clear it with Jerome first.
It's really too bad that so many people have had problems in the past with Balfa bikes. I own a 2Step and a BB7 and my brother has a 2Step DH. Neither one of us has ever had any problems caused by anything other than just riding the hell out of the frames. I guess we just got lucky.
All I have to say is that BB7 (2003) are great bikes and that they survived two years of abuse in Whislter. All other bikes have suffered, like my friend M1, who cracked or my other friend RM7 who almost seperated in two pieces.
Balfa, love it or hate it... I love them, I know they will comeback
Balfa, love it or hate it... I love them, I know they will comeback
I've got a 02 2step and have beaten the piss out of the thing and looks like new. Construction isn't Titus quality, but it's not too bad. The bike is quite well built and very stiff. Customer service sucked though, Stephan was a bugger to deal with. I bought the bike thinking that it could take a dual crown and I could have a very versatile bike, only to find 3 months after I bought the thing that they were no longer warrantying any dual crown failures if you didn't already have a DC on it. I agrued for a revised front end because it was the middle of winter here in the great white North, the bike was never ridden, yet, could not get the guy to even give me the time of day. I was pretty pissed, and still wonder if the bike could accept a DC or not. Have a 6" Z150 on it, and it feels perfect, really don't want a DC, but the price 03 Slider's were at, it was so appealing...
I'm riding a Balfa Belair as my trail bike and I've had a ton of fun on it - took a little fine tuning to get the best chainline - but it's been dialed in for a long long time now and the bike is super versatile - it can be built up as a Trail/light freeride bike or as more of an enduro/long distance type trail bike (think 24 hour racing or epic trial rides).
I think I got a lot of bang for the buck out of my Belair and I'm happy that I chose it. I have put it up for sale as a frame a couple of times now due to new bike/frame lust (hey we all get it right?) but I keep coming back to it and I think I'll be keeping it for a while longer - but possibly in a lighter more long epic ride/24 Hour race bike configuration vs. the burlier trail bike set up I had it in this season.
And I still keep my eye out for used 2Step FR frames because I really like the way the 2STep FR I tested and the 2Step DH I carried for a while pedaled and soaked up the trail. I have my 2002 Cheeta Prowler now in burly trailbike/FR mode with the Z1 up front but I keep my eyes peeled for 2STep FRs to replace the Cheeta with and I'll continue to do so.
Other people may have had problems with their Balfas - but for me - I've been pleased overall with my Belair and what it has done for me - allowing me to progress and have a helluva lot of fun out mountain bike riding!
I think I got a lot of bang for the buck out of my Belair and I'm happy that I chose it. I have put it up for sale as a frame a couple of times now due to new bike/frame lust (hey we all get it right?) but I keep coming back to it and I think I'll be keeping it for a while longer - but possibly in a lighter more long epic ride/24 Hour race bike configuration vs. the burlier trail bike set up I had it in this season.
And I still keep my eye out for used 2Step FR frames because I really like the way the 2STep FR I tested and the 2Step DH I carried for a while pedaled and soaked up the trail. I have my 2002 Cheeta Prowler now in burly trailbike/FR mode with the Z1 up front but I keep my eyes peeled for 2STep FRs to replace the Cheeta with and I'll continue to do so.
Other people may have had problems with their Balfas - but for me - I've been pleased overall with my Belair and what it has done for me - allowing me to progress and have a helluva lot of fun out mountain bike riding!
this will be jerome's own bike though, not a balfa, and he was not a welder but their head designerBebbster said:
i have seen the schematics for this bike ( i work with jerome) and its going to be killer, although i'mnot sure he wanted this news out yet but alas the internet does it again
You didnt have to say anything..... but you did.... plus Its not like anyone gave tons of great info either..... damn that internet.....sirbikealot said:
We're also working with Jerome on the project. We were told to spread the word, so the word is being spreadsirbikealot said:
From what I understand the ex-Balfa welders are also working on the project?
In my opinion, all they really have to do is take the current BB7 frame and change a couple things:
A) a bit of a wider BB since everything is running too close and you get things rubbing(do that or actually pay attention when making the frame)
B) wider rear hub since the BB is wider
C) stronger bolts in the pivot
D) a reinforced floating brake...not that flimsy thing they've been using.
After that, you'd have a super smoothe bike that's made properly.
A) a bit of a wider BB since everything is running too close and you get things rubbing(do that or actually pay attention when making the frame)
B) wider rear hub since the BB is wider
C) stronger bolts in the pivot
D) a reinforced floating brake...not that flimsy thing they've been using.
After that, you'd have a super smoothe bike that's made properly.