[seismic]

My collection includes 4 avy forks (mtn-8, dhf-8, dhf-8ti, dhf-mt) and 2 dhs shocks.

I think we need a picture here :love: :love: :love:

 

[SK6]

On Avalanche's Ebay store, they're doing a 10% off sale on all avy shocks. DHS'es are $540, and Monotubes are $360.

Dude!!! You're the sh!t!!!

DHS it is!

I think I just creamed my britches.....

 

[seismic]

A wise choice !

 

[kidwoo]

You know what's better than x number of avys?

Riding your freaking bike or engaging in something meaningful outside of stroking yourself online about something as irrelevant as which shock you've chosen to put on your bike.............Not to mention creating some sort of dork club that does nothing but look for excuses to type the word printed on your damper.


That's what.

 

[Acadian]

You know what's better than x number of avys?

Riding your freaking bike or engaging in something meaningful outside of stroking yourself online about something as irrelevant as which shock you've chosen to put on your bike.............Not to mention creating some sort of dork club that does nothing but look for excuses to type the word printed on your damper.


That's what.

 

[binary visions]

You know what's better than x number of avys?

Best. Post. Ever.

 

[skyst3alth]

That and blowjobs...

-Adam

 

[seismic]

You know what's better than x number of avys?

Riding your freaking bike or engaging in something meaningful outside of stroking yourself online about something as irrelevant as which shock you've chosen to put on your bike.............Not to mention creating some sort of dork club that does nothing but look for excuses to type the word printed on your damper.


That's what.

...and here we have a grumpy old man who dosent have an Avy

 

[kidwoo]

...and here we have a grumpy old man who dosent have an Avy

But here's what you and yours don't understand. If I wanted that heavy ass thing that has been surpassed in technology by every other major shock manufacturer on any of my bikes, trust me, it would be there. There's very little that I think would make my bike ride better that doesn't find its way there. It's like wallowing in the great technological advancements in suspension design by jan karpiel that lost relevance 4 years ago.................oh wait...........nevermind.

I don't start threads about how great my odi ruffian grips are and coo like a little 13 year old enraptured with her first boyfriend like people seem to do who buy these overdamped motorcycle shocks for their bikes.............

You know what's better than one britney spears album? The next one!! sqweeeeeeeeeee!!!

 

[Zark]

You know whats better than an AVY?

A kidwoo post!
Thanks, you made my day man!

 

[seismic]

But here's what you and yours don't understand. If I wanted that heavy ass thing that has been surpassed in technology by every other major shock manufacturer on any of my bikes, trust me, it would be there. There's very little that I think would make my bike ride better that doesn't find its way there. It's like wallowing in the great technological advancements in suspension design by jan karpiel that lost relevance 4 years ago.................oh wait...........nevermind.

I don't start threads about how great my odi ruffian grips are and coo like a little 13 year old enraptured with her first boyfriend like people seem to do who buy these overdamped motorcycle shocks for their bikes.............

You know what's better than one britney spears album? The next one!! sqweeeeeeeeeee!!!

...overdamped ??? Ohhh...here we go again.... whatever you ride of shock and fork I am sure it rides 100 times better than an Avy... of course...

 

[Jimmy_Pop]

I use QR pins on my Avy so my shock can quickly double as a Nunchaku.

But here's what you and yours don't understand. If I wanted that heavy ass thing that has been surpassed in technology by every other major shock manufacturer on any of my bikes, trust me, it would be there. There's very little that I think would make my bike ride better that doesn't find its way there. It's like wallowing in the great technological advancements in suspension design by jan karpiel that lost relevance 4 years ago.................oh wait...........nevermind.

I don't start threads about how great my odi ruffian grips are and coo like a little 13 year old enraptured with her first boyfriend like people seem to do who buy these overdamped motorcycle shocks for their bikes.............

You know what's better than one britney spears album? The next one!! sqweeeeeeeeeee!!!

 

[vitox]

But here's what you and yours don't understand. If I wanted that heavy ass thing that has been surpassed in technology by every other major shock manufacturer on any of my bikes, trust me, it would be there. There's very little that I think would make my bike ride better that doesn't find its way there. It's like wallowing in the great technological advancements in suspension design by jan karpiel that lost relevance 4 years ago.................oh wait...........nevermind.

hey kw, while i can understand your point about the "dork club" (dont agree but thats absolutely normal isnt it!) id like to hear more about your point with the
"heavy ass thing that has been surpassed in technology by every other major shock manufacturer"
i dont really see this, i mean, i could understand it if you meant that cv/t is at a greater technological development stage, or if you mean it in a weight-to-performance comparison, so, whats exactly the part where avy tech has been "absolutely surpassed"?

im only asking you this because i know there will be an intelligent answer and not to start a "your dad beats by dad" sort of argument, well you already knew this but im typing it so that nobody else replies in that sort of manner.

 

[kidwoo]

...overdamped ??? Ohhh...here we go again.... whatever you ride of shock and fork I am sure it rides 100 times better than an Avy... of course...

Yes overdamped.. You don't notice it on your bike because it's a karpiel and it's overleveraged. To be quite honest, if I still had my armageddon, I'd probably have an avalanche on there. That particular combination of high leverage and heavy damping makes a very nice ride.

But I've also ridden an avalanche on a turner and on a gemini Dh where they feel like crap because both of those bikes have much lower leverage ratios. Even with the right amount of sag/spring weight and zero compression damping, they ride really harsh. The guy I knew trying to get his gemini dialed even sent it back twice to get it "custom" tuned. Rather than listen to the guy the almighty craig just blew him off and kind of insulted they guy's knowledge.

I've got a vanilla dh on my bike which to be honest is much more rare than any avalanche. It's on there because it has an adjustability not found in avalanche shocks that make it suitable for that bike. But here's the thing........I don't start threads or make ENDLESS posts about it.

My point is not to rag on shocks that actually have a validity with certain frames. It's starting these goofy chant fests.

 

[Jimmy_Pop]

Ding Ding Ding

Rather than listen to the guy the almighty craig just blew him off and kind of insulted they guy's knowledge.

 

[kidwoo]

i dont really see this, i mean, i could understand it if you meant that cv/t is at a greater technological development stage, or if you mean it in a weight-to-performance comparison, so, whats exactly the part where avy tech has been "absolutely surpassed"?

im only asking you this because i know there will be an intelligent answer and not to start a "your dad beats by dad" sort of argument, well you already knew this but im typing it so that nobody else replies in that sort of manner.

Kind of answered in the above post but.......I respect you and your know how quite a bit so I'll elaborate.

4 years ago avalanche shocks were pretty revolutionary in how they felt compared to the standard vanilla rc. Did you ever meet a guy at karpiel named Karl when you were dealing with them? He was the first one that had a bike with one of those things that I actually got to ride. His setup ruled. Him and the canfield guys were the only ones I knew with them for a while..........and I almost got one for my bike.
But that was then.

The cvt manitous, dhx's etc are something you can buy, have WAY more usuable adjustability and with bikes having lower leverage ratios these days, actually ride better in my opinion. I know the newer avys have position sensitve damping but the ones I've felt recently have very little changed in their overall feel. (edit: I'm talking about the remotes, not the piggybacks) As mentioned.......I do like they way they can make some bikes feel.......but certainly not all and I'm weary of "buy an avy" as a response to everything.

But like I said.......my gripe is not the shocks nearly so much as the "ooooohh, we have avalanche shocks, we're so special" that seems to saturate this board. It's winter, it's dark when I get off work, and I don't have a dog to kick when I get home.

 

[MOTODH]

Yes overdamped.. You don't notice it on your bike because it's a karpiel and it's overleveraged. To be quite honest, if I still had my armageddon, I'd probably have an avalanche on there. That particular combination of high leverage and heavy damping makes a very nice ride.

But I've also ridden an avalanche on a turner and on a gemini Dh where they feel like crap because both of those bikes have much lower leverage ratios. Even with the right amount of sag/spring weight and zero compression damping, they ride really harsh. The guy I knew trying to get his gemini dialed even sent it back twice to get it "custom" tuned. Rather than listen to the guy the almighty craig just blew him off and kind of insulted they guy's knowledge.

I've got a vanilla dh on my bike which to be honest is much more rare than any avalanche. It's on there because it has an adjustability not found in avalanche shocks that make it suitable for that bike. But here's the thing........I don't start threads or make ENDLESS posts about it.

My point is not to rag on shocks that actually have a validity with certain frames. It's starting these goofy chant fests.

I completely agree but it is odd how DW love his Avy on a sunday
just stirring the pot:devil:

 

[kidwoo]

I completely agree but it is odd how DW love his Avy on a sunday
just stirring the pot:devil:

Considering sundays are like the opposite end of the spectrum from high leverage ratio bikes, that is odd.

What's not odd however is the feasibilty of Seekins and Weagle having a much more in depth discussion of shock requirements for his particular bike and Craig's willingness to listen and build such a shock..........much more so than the attention the average customer gets. Who knows.

There is no shock that is the holy grail for all riders and all bikes which like I keep saying is my whole reason for all this pissing and moaning on my part. I got sidetracked with pointing out reasons some people like myself may actually not want an avalanche *gasp* But I'm tired of listening to myself so I'm sure everyone else is too.

 

[partsbara]

this thread is improving...

KW makes a very vaild point... depends on the bike #1...

i have an avy DHS... do i like it ?? yes... is it set up correctly for me / my bike ?? yes... am i in the RM 'avy club' ?? no...

i honestly can t say i like cvt... i don t mind dhx, it s a huge improvment over RC (yeah )... if i rode a fox it d prolly be a pushed RC... thats a shock i d like to rock...

would i buy another avalance ?? most definately...

 

[seismic]

Yes overdamped.. You don't notice it on your bike because it's a karpiel and it's overleveraged. To be quite honest, if I still had my armageddon, I'd probably have an avalanche on there. That particular combination of high leverage and heavy damping makes a very nice ride.

But I've also ridden an avalanche on a turner and on a gemini Dh where they feel like crap because both of those bikes have much lower leverage ratios. Even with the right amount of sag/spring weight and zero compression damping, they ride really harsh. The guy I knew trying to get his gemini dialed even sent it back twice to get it "custom" tuned. Rather than listen to the guy the almighty craig just blew him off and kind of insulted they guy's knowledge.

I've got a vanilla dh on my bike which to be honest is much more rare than any avalanche. It's on there because it has an adjustability not found in avalanche shocks that make it suitable for that bike. But here's the thing........I don't start threads or make ENDLESS posts about it.

My point is not to rag on shocks that actually have a validity with certain frames. It's starting these goofy chant fests.

If you run the Army in 9" setting with a 3" shock you have a 1:3 lever ratio...since when has that become a high leverage? I thought 1:3 was quite "normal"....

 

[kidwoo]

If you run the Army in 9" setting with a 3" shock you have a 1:3 lever ratio...since when has that become a high leverage? I thought 1:3 was quite "normal"....

It is. Most people don't run it that way though. I couldn't because the eccentrics on mine kept slipping. Sorry for the assumption. But at least now you know your bike is completely incorrectly designed for that shock and through my lengthly babbling, you now understand that you can't possibly be having any fun riding it......you must sell one or the other at once.

Buy a foxy.

see how that could get annoying?

 

[seismic]

It is. Most people don't run it that way though. I couldn't because the eccentrics on mine kept slipping. Sorry for the assumption. But at least now you know your bike is completely incorrectly designed for that shock and through my lengthly babbling, you now understand that you can't possibly be having any fun riding it......you must sell one or the other at once.

Buy a foxy.

see how that could get annoying?

Which bike do you ride ?

 

[kidwoo]

Which bike do you ride ?

My dh bike is a turner now. Number two technically.

Before that I had an armageddon, a disco volante, and kind of a borrowed specialized DH that got me started (back in the day™).

 

[vitox]

Yes overdamped.. You don't notice it on your bike because it's a karpiel and it's overleveraged. To be quite honest, if I still had my armageddon, I'd probably have an avalanche on there. That particular combination of high leverage and heavy damping makes a very nice ride.

But I've also ridden an avalanche on a turner and on a gemini Dh where they feel like crap because both of those bikes have much lower leverage ratios. Even with the right amount of sag/spring weight and zero compression damping, they ride really harsh. The guy I knew trying to get his gemini dialed even sent it back twice to get it "custom" tuned. Rather than listen to the guy the almighty craig just blew him off and kind of insulted they guy's knowledge.

I've got a vanilla dh on my bike which to be honest is much more rare than any avalanche. It's on there because it has an adjustability not found in avalanche shocks that make it suitable for that bike. But here's the thing........I don't start threads or make ENDLESS posts about it.

My point is not to rag on shocks that actually have a validity with certain frames. It's starting these goofy chant fests.

you know thats odd and im sure there has to have been some sort of miscommunication there with your friend, because once i called craig up to see if he could get me an avy set up for a wc bound friend and he actually referred to (must have been) your friend and his gemini problem and told me he plain hadnt been able to get it done, at least in the way he explained it to me he seemed pretty bummed about it all.

as for the turner, ive ridden one wih avy and it felt quite nice, so do the also-3-to-1 pdc`s ive put avys on, so im quite certain 3 to 1 is not a leverage craig has a problem valving for at all.

and nope i never met karl other than over the phone, not surprising given the fact ive never set foot on u.s. soil (and with visa wait times being 4 months now here im not sure i ever will)

 

[vitox]

Considering sundays are like the opposite end of the spectrum from high leverage ratio bikes, that is odd.

What's not odd however is the feasibilty of Seekins and Weagle having a much more in depth discussion of shock requirements for his particular bike and Craig's willingness to listen and build such a shock..........much more so than the attention the average customer gets. Who knows.

that particular issue had struck me too before, i think it might have something to do with the dwlink supposedly (never ridden one) requiring so little compression damping and therefore offsetting the problem the avy valve core has with so little leverage and shaft velocity.

 

[seismic]

My dh bike is a turner now. Number two technically.

Before that I had an armageddon, a disco volante, and kind of a borrowed specialized DH that got me started (back in the day™).

I will not critize you in any way, but could you list your setup??....I am just curious. Thanks

 

[OGRipper]

Man, Kidwoo you are funny when you're cranky with cabin fever! Five stars!!

But is interesting to consider how the Avy might be a better answer for higher leverage frames. That could help explain why lots of the cultists talk about blowing dozens of shocks before seeing the Avy light. I largely ignore these discussions but not sure I've seen that point made before.

 

[vitox]

The cvt manitous, dhx's etc are something you can buy, have WAY more usuable adjustability and with bikes having lower leverage ratios these days, actually ride better in my opinion. I know the newer avys have position sensitve damping but the ones I've felt recently have very little changed in their overall feel. (edit: I'm talking about the remotes, not the piggybacks) As mentioned.......I do like they way they can make some bikes feel.......but certainly not all and I'm weary of "buy an avy" as a response to everything.

for certain the "buy an avy" isnt a correct response if used all the time, perfect example would be your friends gemini, but i still do think for a dh application, a correctly valved avalanche (like mentioned before, not feasible on all frames) has an edge over other shocks, the important thing is to not forget that this is without taking into account pedalling efficiency concerns or individual user adjustability.

as for the position sensitive damping, they dont have it, neither does to my knowledge (having serviced them) the dhx, the rc, nor the roco (judging from specs), the new small piggyback avy you can adjust the bottom out resistance internally much like you could with the fox rc and now with the dhx5 you can do this externally.

anyway and more to the point, i agree pretty much with all your way of exposing your argument and since its a personal preference thing i can also give you that you might feel the dhx or whatever shock to perform better on the bikes you mentioned, but i still dont see the "technological surpassment" you mentioned, i just see different ways to cut the same cake, some better executed than others thats all.

of course at this point its just for the arguments sake.

 

[vitox]

Man, Kidwoo you are funny when you're cranky with cabin fever! Five stars!!

But is interesting to consider how the Avy might be a better answer for higher leverage frames. That could help explain why lots of the cultists talk about blowing dozens of shocks before seeing the Avy light. I largely ignore these discussions but not sure I've seen that point made before.

well thats a very good point, actually thats one of the obvious strengths of the avy design, i mean, its not rocket science, the damn shock is huge and the shaft is steel, the bushing and seal are gigantic in proportion to other shocks so it shouldnt be that hard to understand that its a lot more durable. if you have ever been inside the swinger or its sibling the metel and then compare the quality and the wear rate, youll understand a lot of the "blew a dozen shocks before the avy" talk i promise.

rider weight, abuse level, and leverage ratio all work against durability, that much im positive about.

 

[kidwoo]

you know thats odd and im sure there has to have been some sort of miscommunication there with your friend, because once i called craig up to see if he could get me an avy set up for a wc bound friend and he actually referred to (must have been) your friend and his gemini problem and told me he plain hadnt been able to get it done, at least in the way he explained it to me he seemed pretty bummed about it all.

as for the turner, ive ridden one wih avy and it felt quite nice, so do the also-3-to-1 pdc`s ive put avys on, so im quite certain 3 to 1 is not a leverage craig has a problem valving for at all.

and nope i never met karl other than over the phone, not surprising given the fact ive never set foot on u.s. soil (and with visa wait times being 4 months now here im not sure i ever will)

Small world.

I have no doubt that with craig's expertise, he can pretty much make a shock do whatever he wants. I'm not naive enough even in my sweeping generalizations to assume that the owners of these bikes couldn't have gotten something very nice out of the avy shop. I just didn't like the way they felt.

I was more doing this :mumble: just to point out that there are some of us in the world that don't have his shocks because for whatever reason, we don't want them. With me, I like DH bikes to feel pretty loose. The one dhr I felt with one didn't feel this way and it was sprung the same as mine. Not to say it couldn't be done but it wasn't something I sought after. The way that gemini felt was something I don't think ANYONE would want.

As a sidenote, I got to ride one of the few turner c-note bikes made (dave turner's girlfriend lives here and she had one). It was a 7 inch dh bike with no linkage (kind of like a big rail) and she let me ride her bike around a little bit after my romic blew up. Considering the simple design, that bike felt awesome. I have no idea what the shock stroke was on that bike but all turners in production have been 3.1 or less.

After seeing one for sale I even tossed around the idea of sticking one of the piggybacks on my uzzi vpx if I can ever get a test ride in on one. But even if I do, I will never be part of this wierd cheerleading squad. Did I mention this was my motivation for all this?

 

[vitox]

Small world.
Did I mention this was my motivation for all this?

of course i knew that was your motivation, but just as you i have no dog to kick but my neigbours and im waiting and waiting for the truck from my customs agent to show up and nothing yet so i figured maybe we get some real geek talk out of this thread, right?

 

[kidwoo]

as for the position sensitive damping, they dont have it, neither does to my knowledge (having serviced them) the dhx, the rc, nor the roco (judging from specs), the new small piggyback avy you can adjust the bottom out resistance internally much like you could with the fox rc and now with the dhx5 you can do this externally.

I threw that in there because they list it on the site now. All the ones I've ever seen have been the same shock they've always made. Piggy back with just plain old rebound and compression damping.

The technologically surpassed thing was based on this.....no pedal platform, no progression adjustment. The position sensitive thing is same as a progression adjustment IMO. Maybe that seemed too strong a generalization in regards to some of the things they do have with respect to the larger shaft/bearings and oil displacement but I still hold the opinion that they're lagging in some regards.

When I got my niller dh, I even touted that as a benefit. "It's huge shaft and greater fluid dispacement akin to an avalanche blah blah blah"

I know they make good shocks though. But by all means, correct me if I'm wrong in my statement that they are heavier (the remotes, not the new ones) than just about every other conventional shock.

of course i knew that was your motivation, but just as you i have no dog to kick but my neigbours and im waiting and waiting for the truck from my customs agent to show up and nothing yet so i figured maybe we get some real geek talk out of this thread, right?

I don't even want to hear it man. You're looking foward to a long summer of descents well over 5 thousand feet that make my mountains look like pimples. I'm shoveling my driveway.

 

[bullcrew]

Yeah!
An AVY and these!

 

[vitox]

I threw that in there because they list it on the site now. All the ones I've ever seen have been the same shock they've always made. Piggy back with just plain old rebound and compression damping.

The technologically surpassed thing was based on this.....no pedal platform, no progression adjustment. The position sensitive thing is same as a progression adjustment IMO. Maybe that seemed too strong a generalization in regards to some of the things they do have with respect to the larger shaft/bearings and oil displacement but I still hold the opinion that they're lagging in some regards.

When I got my niller dh, I even touted that as a benefit. "It's huge shaft and greater fluid dispacement akin to an avalanche blah blah blah"

I know they make good shocks though. But by all means, correct me if I'm wrong in my statement that they are heavier (the remotes, not the new ones) than just about every other conventional shock.



I don't even want to hear it man. You're looking foward to a long summer of descents well over 5 thousand feet that make my mountains look like pimples. I'm shoveling my driveway.

ok then i wont tell you about the course that i was scouting yesterday for a race in january.....

well that reply was just what i wanted because thats the very core of the whole shock discussion not only here but i see it in the products coming from other manufacturers, take cane creek and marzocchi for instance.
you bring up the platform shocks, i do also consider them valid technology, but by no means superior, its a clever way to use low speed damping and position sensitivity but it has its own very tangible drawbacks.
the progression adjust is a more definite feature the avy lacks, although i dont know how much of a technological feat it is to thread to pieces of alloy tubing, its very useful and intuitive though so yea, definitely something craig could add to the IFP shock, on the other hand however, the large piggyback and the dhs have "bladder technology" that could be equally "surpassing" and that the other shocks dont have.

get my point with the different ways to cut the same cake?

 

[kidwoo]

I will not critize you in any way, but could you list your setup??....I am just curious. Thanks

You can ALWAYS criticize me. I often deserve it.

It's an 04 turner DHR with that vanilla dh thing. 888 with go-ride crowns, the newer go-ride direct mount stem (not in picture). Sram x.0 twist shifter and derailleur. I've got saint brakes and holzfeller cranks on it now......this is an older picture..

 

[kidwoo]

get my point with the different ways to cut the same cake?

Absolutely.

Do you get mine that I'm well aware of the fact that I shoot my mouth off sometime? disproportionately so in threads where you're posting it seems.

 

[seismic]

You can ALWAYS criticize me. I often deserve it.

It's an 04 turner DHR with that vanilla dh thing. 888 with go-ride crowns, the newer go-ride direct mount stem (not in picture). Sram x.0 twist shifter and derailleur. I've got saint brakes and holzfeller cranks on it now......this is an older picture..

Looking good.......

 

[DH biker]

Wait, DW has an Avy on his Sunday???
Pictures.

 

[SK6]

Well now, some information I can use. That being said, if the remote resi can have its issues, what about the mono-tube? technical thoughts?

 

[vitox]

Well now, some information I can use. That being said, if the remote resi can have its issues, what about the mono-tube? technical thoughts?

what issues are you thinking of?