[Brian HCM#1]

You can ALWAYS criticize me. I often deserve it.

It's an 04 turner DHR with that vanilla dh thing. 888 with go-ride crowns, the newer go-ride direct mount stem (not in picture). Sram x.0 twist shifter and derailleur. I've got saint brakes and holzfeller cranks on it now......this is an older picture..

You know you wanted my bike after you rode it @ N*





I really am glad I did stay out of this little Avy support session this time


I like my Avy set up, as you mentioned above it really does improve the feel of the Karpiel, Army & Disco, much more than the Fox & Risse. I did ride some on a PUSHed shock on the Disco and it didn't feel as good as the Avy, but a huge improvement over the stock Fox.

 

[Brian HCM#1]

what issues are you thinking of?

Ralph has issues

 

[Kntr]

You can ALWAYS criticize me. I often deserve it.

It's an 04 turner DHR with that vanilla dh thing. 888 with go-ride crowns, the newer go-ride direct mount stem (not in picture). Sram x.0 twist shifter and derailleur. I've got saint brakes and holzfeller cranks on it now......this is an older picture..

With a "vanilla dh thing"? hmmm, you can say Fox Vanilla DHX. We won't think you belong to a DHX cult. Its ok to say you like something.

Im staying out of the whole Avy thing. It feels good and is reliable.. Thats all I need and want.

 

[Thrillkil]

ah, the obligatory bi-monthly avy hate thread.

I'm very happy with my avy. It's plush, very responsive, and with a progressive suspension frame, pedals well to boot. It's a sound investment, mainly because I got it on the cheap.

 

[Bicyclist]

With a "vanilla dh thing"? hmmm, you can say Fox Vanilla DHX.

No he can't. A Vanilla DH and a DHX are way different.

 

[Changleen]

If you were canadian you'd have like 7 avy's

-Adam

Now that was funny.

 

[ChrisRobin]

I don't mean to distract you guys from your avalanche masturbation session but there's a DHF for sale in the suspension forum by a dude in Alberta (mojodamonkey).

 

[SK6]

I was wondering while everyone is debating which shock is better to masturbate with, that I am going to make a large investment on just one shock for 600.00, and that any relevant info is actually being sought?

Kidwoo identified issues and addressed leverage ratios. From an engineering perspective with minimal or noob experience with the higher end shock, by default, using a resi as opposed to a monotube would be preferable due to the volume and expansion of the oil.

However, it is my understanding that it is not that large of an issue because the expansion is not the issue insomuch as heat is. And further DH riding typically does not see that inordinate amount of heat as a moto-style bike.

So there in lies my question, what is the opinion?

And yes, as Brian said, I have issues.

 

[intensified]

My point is not to rag on shocks that actually have a validity with certain frames. It's starting these goofy chant fests.

seems like you like to contribute to the goofy post though.


Ever try any of the new avy's?

 

[intensified]

......you must sell one or the other at once.

Buy a foxy.

see how that could get annoying?

Best contribution.

 

[bullcrew]

I was wondering while everyone is debating which shock is better to masturbate with, that I am going to make a large investment on just one shock for 600.00, and that any relevant info is actually being sought?

Kidwoo identified issues and addressed leverage ratios. From an engineering perspective with minimal or noob experience with the higher end shock, by default, using a resi as opposed to a monotube would be preferable due to the volume and expansion of the oil.

However, it is my understanding that it is not that large of an issue because the expansion is not the issue insomuch as heat is. And further DH riding typically does not see that inordinate amount of heat as a moto-style bike.

So there in lies my question, what is the opinion?

And yes, as Brian said, I have issues.

The shock on a faster run will get hot, then the damping properties will change. Oil or shock fluid changes viscousity at different temperatures, thinning as it gets warm making the shock less effective.
More oil capacity and the external resevoir matched with the nitrogen will help ensure the shock (AVY) stays true to its valving through out the ride. You get more consisency and no limp shock at the bottom.

 

[Brian HCM#1]

I was wondering while everyone is debating which shock is better to masturbate with, that I am going to make a large investment on just one shock for 600.00, and that any relevant info is actually being sought?

Kidwoo identified issues and addressed leverage ratios. From an engineering perspective with minimal or noob experience with the higher end shock, by default, using a resi as opposed to a monotube would be preferable due to the volume and expansion of the oil.

However, it is my understanding that it is not that large of an issue because the expansion is not the issue insomuch as heat is. And further DH riding typically does not see that inordinate amount of heat as a moto-style bike.

So there in lies my question, what is the opinion?

And yes, as Brian said, I have issues.

The DHS will infact give you more adjustability and is custom tuned to you. I've never tried a Monte.

 

[SK6]

The shock on a faster run will get hot, then the damping properties will change. Oil or shock fluid changes viscousity at different temperatures, thinning as it gets warm making the shock less effective.
More oil capacity and the external resevoir matched with the nitrogen will help ensure the shock (AVY) stays true to its valving through out the ride. You get more consisency and no limp shock at the bottom.

So where not looking at any kind of cavitation… However, based on the viscosity, the oil may heat up, but not to the point of cavitation to cause much concern. What I didn’t calculate for was the heated oil as opposed to really heated oil will loosen the oil up.

How does the hose itself affect the flow rate, per se?

 

[Kntr]

No he can't. A Vanilla DH and a DHX are way different.

ooops. I meant Vanilla DH. I just thought it was funny how he called it a "vanilla DH thing." Kind of like, its JUST a Vanilla.










Ive touched my Romic after a LONG DH run and its warm, real warm. Ive touched my Avy after a long DH run and it is the same temp as when I started the run.

The body on the Montie is still bigger than most shocks and will stay cooler. I love my DHS but someday I want to run the Monte.

From what Russ told me, he loves the Montie and really cant tell the difference between it and the DHS. Russ rides Whistler for about 2-3 months a year. Take it for what its worth.

PM Russ and see what he has to say.

 

[kidwoo]

You know you wanted my bike after you rode it @ N*

.

I had your bike. I sold it for a reason. Lots of reasons actually

 

[Brian HCM#1]

I had your bike. I sold it for a reason. Lots of reasons actually

But not all Avy'ed out I remember you telling me a few things about your Karpiel. It's cool, I love my bike and works perfect for me and my awful riding skills.

 

[kidwoo]

But not all Avy'ed out

What's that saying about turd polish?


Behold, the bumpy chicken!!!!

 

[narlus]

You know what's better than x number of avys?

Riding your freaking bike or engaging in something meaningful outside of stroking yourself online about something as irrelevant as which shock you've chosen to put on your bike.............Not to mention creating some sort of dork club that does nothing but look for excuses to type the word printed on your damper.


That's what.

jumping in late, but kid woo, why you gotta take all the fun out of e-biking?

edit - proud avy owner since '01

 

[Brian HCM#1]

What's that saying about turd polish?


Behold, the bumpy chicken!!!!

You're just bitter because Jan wouldn't listen to you:mumble: . It's not that bad of a bike, it's all personal preference.

 

[kidwoo]

You're just bitter because Jan wouldn't listen to you:mumble: . It's not that bad of a bike, it's all personal preference.

Huh?

He had nothing to do with that purchase.....the guy I got it from had no clue what size it was. That has nothing to do with Jan. What I told you was that when I said the bike was too small, Jan told me to move the seat tower back. That's just stupid, not something to get bitter about. You think I was upset because Jan couldn't magically stretch out the frame? That's asinine. If I was bitter at anyone, it was the guy who sold it to me, not someone who had nothing to do with it.

I sold that bike primarily because it was too small. I didn't buy another larger one because the eccentric system sucks.....they move constantly, the bike cornered like a semi truck compared to some of the bikes I was test riding, finding shocks that worked well with it was difficult, the swing links crack, the shock bolts bend or break on a regular basis, the headtubes often find themselves in another area from the frame, plus Jan was going under and I didn't want to ever deal with him on a business level again.........

I have no doubt you like your bicycle but at least take the time to understand the REAL reasons why people don't ride the things anymore.

 

[bullcrew]

O.K. from a performance perspective, damping is needed more on higher leverage ratio frames like a 3:1 to work effectivley. A 2:1 frame requires less there for a fox or other would be fine to a certain extent. Less chance of blowing it up because less force is exerted to the shock directly. The Avys are know for the damp. properties and resolving issues with med to high leverage ratio frames and taking the abuse without blowing.

Issue #2: WEIGHT
B.S. the weight provided by fox on the DHX seems to be a dry weight with no oil or spring and if you take an AVY and weigh it with no oil or spring it would come in at approx. 3/4 to 1 oz. of the dhx.
Avy weighs there stuff true to product, last time I checked a shock cannot be run without oil or spring.
Thats like telling my wife she weighs 12lbs lighter if she didn't have organs.

Sorry just had to put my 2 cents in on these items.

OH! 1 more.
Peope who buy an Avalanche from a friend of a friend and it doesn't work on their bike, you know who you are! Need to realize that Avys unlike fox are not generic valving, they are built for the application intended and therefore are not as effective on a different frame as they should be. GET IT VALVED! IT MAKES A DIFFERENCE!
I have had good luck from day 1 with them, the weight isn't that much more than a DHX and the reliability is a lot better with AVY.

 

[Brian HCM#1]

Huh?

He had nothing to do with that purchase.....the guy I got it from had no clue what size it was. That has nothing to do with Jan. What I told you was that when I said the bike was too small, Jan told me to move the seat tower back. That's just stupid, not something to get bitter about. You think I was upset because Jan couldn't magically stretch out the frame? That's asinine. If I was bitter at anyone, it was the guy who sold it to me, not someone who had nothing to do with it.

I sold that bike primarily because it was too small. I didn't buy another larger one because the eccentric system sucks.....they move constantly, the bike cornered like a semi truck compared to some of the bikes I was test riding, finding shocks that worked well with it was difficult, the swing links crack, the shock bolts bend or break on a regular basis, the headtubes often find themselves in another area from the frame, plus Jan was going under and I didn't want to ever deal with him on a business level again.........

I have no doubt you like your bicycle but at least take the time to understand the REAL reasons why people don't ride the things anymore.

I was under the impression, you bought the bike from Jan and he insisted the frame fit you properly, that's all. True about how it steers, it's definatly not a race type bike. I do find it funny however 3-4 years ago they were one of the "must have" bikes. From what I've seen they are fairly durable bikes with a small failure rate, compared to others of it's kind. Anyways you have moved on and I'm still holding on to the past, you tend to do that when you're 6 months from 40.

 

[kidwoo]

I was under the impression, you bought the bike from Jan and he insisted the frame fit you properly, that's all. True about how it steers, it's definatly not a race type bike. I do find it funny however 3-4 years ago they were one of the "must have" bikes. From what I've seen they are fairly durable bikes with a small failure rate, compared to others of it's kind. Anyways you have moved on and I'm still holding on to the past, you tend to do that when you're 6 months from 40.

Oh don't get me wrong. Those bikes were head and shoulders above a lot of what was being made 3-4 years ago me thinks. A tunable (army) progression rate with the shock position, a rearward initial axle path for the smooveness and an adjustable travel thingy made those things stand out. Plus they're pretty light. The execution of the concepts never really saw any progression though and the weaknesses never got addressed. Some bolt holes instead of the eccentrics, room for the bigger shocks, thru axle rear ends, larger mounting hardware etc would have been pretty simple to do..........just never happened and other good bikes started popping up. Remember amp research bikes were a must have bike too at one point

You have to keep in mind where I live too. My introduction to the sport was through the 4 guys that were his pro/semi-pro "team". Plus reno/tahoe has probably the highest density of those things floating around of anywhere. Living in the area, you get to see the problems they had in greater proportion I think. If I had an issue there's like 20 people I rode with I could call and look at thiers and compare. .

 

[seismic]

O.K. from a performance perspective, damping is needed more on higher leverage ratio frames like a 3:1 to work effectivley. A 2:1 frame requires less there for a fox or other would be fine to a certain extent. Less chance of blowing it up because less force is exerted to the shock directly. The Avys are know for the damp. properties and resolving issues with med to high leverage ratio frames and taking the abuse without blowing.

Issue #2: WEIGHT
B.S. the weight provided by fox on the DHX seems to be a dry weight with no oil or spring and if you take an AVY and weigh it with no oil or spring it would come in at approx. 3/4 to 1 oz. of the dhx.
Avy weighs there stuff true to product, last time I checked a shock cannot be run without oil or spring.
Thats like telling my wife she weighs 12lbs lighter if she didn't have organs.

Sorry just had to put my 2 cents in on these items.

OH! 1 more.
Peope who buy an Avalanche from a friend of a friend and it doesn't work on their bike, you know who you are! Need to realize that Avys unlike fox are not generic valving, they are built for the application intended and therefore are not as effective on a different frame as they should be. GET IT VALVED! IT MAKES A DIFFERENCE!
I have had good luck from day 1 with them, the weight isn't that much more than a DHX and the reliability is a lot better with AVY.

Second that !

 

[ChrisRobin]

Ok, say I were to find a used avy shock. How hard is it to get a local MX shop to re-shim it for my frame? Probably pretty tough eh?

 

[Zark]

OH! 1 more.
Peope who buy an Avalanche from a friend of a friend and it doesn't work on their bike, you know who you are! Need to realize that Avys unlike fox are not generic valving, they are built for the application intended and therefore are not as effective on a different frame as they should be. GET IT VALVED! IT MAKES A DIFFERENCE!

OK this argument again. Generic valving that can be tuned to suit 99% of riders and bikes. Or "custom" valving by a dude who consistantly overdamps the settings for riders who want light damping. I'll take generic, tun it myself and use the money I saved on what else......but beer and hookers

 

[seismic]

OK this argument again. Generic valving that can be tuned to suit 99% of riders and bikes. Or "custom" valving by a dude who consistantly overdamps the settings for riders who want light damping. I'll take generic, tun it myself and use the money I saved on what else......but beer and hookers

Do you actually ride an Avy ?

 

[kidwoo]

Do you actually ride an Avy ?

He rides hookers.

Custom damped to his specifications.

 

[seismic]

He rides hookers.

Custom damped to his specifications.

 

[kidwoo]

You like dry hookers?

 

[seismic]

You like dry hookers?

 

[kidwoo]

 

[Kntr]

I ran a Romic with a steal spring for about a season. Then, I bought the Avy with a Ti spring. The Avy was actually lighter.

 

[kidwoo]

I ran a Romic with a steal spring for about a season. Then, I bought the Avy with a Ti spring. The Avy was actually lighter.

Well.............yah!! Why does everyone compare avys with ti springs to other shocks with steel springs when they want to make a case for weight?

Those springs are compatible sizes right? So if I wanted a ninja colored romic, I could get a spring from avalanche?

 

[Zark]

He rides hookers.

Custom damped to his specifications.

too funny

And no, Seismic, I don't ride an Avy. I ride an inferior, generic, lighter shock

 

[bullcrew]

too funny

And no, Seismic, I don't ride an Avy. I ride an inferior, generic, lighter shock

What shock, and whats it's terd weight Oh I mean its curb weight with oil and spring.

 

[Kntr]

Well.............yah!! Why does everyone compare avys with ti springs to other shocks with steel springs when they want to make a case for weight?

Those springs are compatible sizes right? So if I wanted a ninja colored romic, I could get a spring from avalanche?

When did ninjas start weighing TI?

I was just stating a fact.

 

[Thrillkil]

I was under the impression, you bought the bike from Jan and he insisted the frame fit you properly, that's all. True about how it steers, it's definatly not a race type bike. I do find it funny however 3-4 years ago they were one of the "must have" bikes. From what I've seen they are fairly durable bikes with a small failure rate, compared to others of it's kind. Anyways you have moved on and I'm still holding on to the past, you tend to do that when you're 6 months from 40.

I really like my disco

 

[SK6]

Just trying to get some info...

And seismic, the hooker thing WAS actually quite funny.

 

[kidwoo]

When did ninjas start weighing TI?

I was just stating a fact.

That was an actual question..........avy and romic springs are compatible right?

I want a black (ninja colored) spring for a romic.