[SthFRider]

So im lookin at getting the tr 450 and it comes with the fox rc4. I've seen on here and other sites that some people don't really like them and i've seen a fair amount of them for sale. Whats the deal with them? To hard to set up or what? Anyone that has experience with the rc4 and could shed some light on its performance and ease of adjustment etc that would be great. Cheers

 

[IH8Rice]

get the CCDB over the RC4..i hated mine. /thread

 

[nmpearson]

i have a TR450 with an RC4. i love it so far. It tracks the ground really well, ramps up really well, and is just supple. I'm a big fan of it. If people are having problems with setting it up, they should probably learn how to tune a shock. it's not hard at all. if you know how to tune one you'll be fine. i took a ton of the compression off and just tuned the high/low speed compression and it's been doing really well.

As far as alternatives, some people like elkas(i don't really care for them. They're clunky in the beginning of the travel). you have to get the rc4 with the TR though. it doesn't come without a shock. Try it, you'll like it

 

[kidwoo]

/thread

Aw dammit!

I was gonna say something relevant but... Now there's that front slash. Now I'm powerless!



Shlt!!

 

[davep]

I'm a big fan of it. If people are having problems with setting it up, they should probably learn how to tune a shock. it's not hard at all. if you know how to tune one you'll be fine. i took a ton of the compression off and just tuned the high/low speed compression and it's been doing really well.

What in the world does that mean???

I have talked to a few people that have had a hard time getting the shock to where they want..and it had NOTHING to do with your self riteous claims. As I understand the complaints were centered around the increased progressiveness due to the shaft diameter on frames that do not need this (and there is nothing you can do about this) as well as the increase in compression (that require re-shimming and/or viscosity change) that can be overwhelming on frames designed to work with less damping.

It is great that you like a single itteration of the shock on a single frame, but to say that it works for everyone in every application 'or the user does not know what they are doing' is VERY shortsighted.

BTW, great attitude for a shop owner/employee...especially one that could directly profit from this kind of promotion.

 

[IH8Rice]

i took a ton of the compression off and just tuned the high/low speed compression and it's been doing really well.

 

[nmpearson]

ha, sorry about that. 2 tests and 5 hours of homework w/o food has worked me today. I dialed down the bottom out dial and just used the high/low speed compression knobs to tune the suspension. it seemed to work out pretty well

and dave...that's great that you feel my opinion is based off 1 bike, you moron. look dude, i don't see what i'm profiting off helping someone out on a forum...really?!?! you're an idiot. they really aren't hard to tune. sit down and go through the steps and you should be able to have a good baseline, then adjust it on the trail. if you have an RC4, you should know something about bikes. btw i've been a fan of the shock since it came out. I always hated the DHX's before because they had a harsh bottom out, didn't track the ground really well, and didn't ramp up very well, but it def got solved. I don't have much time on a DB, but they seem to work pretty amazing.

 

[IH8Rice]

dialed down the bottom out? as in turned it full in? the bottom out and hi/low are separate from each other ya know

 

[nmpearson]

dialed down the bottom out? as in turned it full in? the bottom out and hi/low are separate from each other ya know

yes...i turned the bottom out all the way off. then i just spent time dialing in high/low speed. It seemed to make the travel a ton smoother still preforms incredibly

 

[IH8Rice]

yes...i turned the bottom out all the way off. then i just spent time dialing in high/low speed. It seemed to make the travel a ton smoother still preforms incredibly

to each his own i guess. i hated it

 

[Commencal-guy]

Elka?

 

[Pslide]

I've used both CCDB and RC4 on my Banshee Legend, and while quite different, there is nothing wrong with an RC4 and I would happily buy one on a new bike...especially if Transition have worked with Fox to get a rough tune for the bike.

That is just my opinion of course, and I am not a fan of overdamped compression setups that you can achieve with a CCDB. If that's what you want, an RC4 won't impress you.

 

[toodles]

I've been pretty happy with the RC4 on my TR450. I reckon at least give it a try for a few weeks before dismissing it.

I might to to borrow a mate's Double Barrel for a test in the near future (I'm looking at you udi).

 

[davep]

ha, sorry about that. 2 tests and 5 hours of homework w/o food has worked me today. I dialed down the bottom out dial and just used the high/low speed compression knobs to tune the suspension. it seemed to work out pretty well

and dave...that's great that you feel my opinion is based off 1 bike, you moron. look dude, i don't see what i'm profiting off helping someone out on a forum...really?!?! you're an idiot. they really aren't hard to tune. sit down and go through the steps and you should be able to have a good baseline, then adjust it on the trail. if you have an RC4, you should know something about bikes. btw i've been a fan of the shock since it came out. I always hated the DHX's before because they had a harsh bottom out, didn't track the ground really well, and didn't ramp up very well, but it def got solved. I don't have much time on a DB, but they seem to work pretty amazing.

So classic. You are not helping nor offered to help anyone. You offered NOTHING. No steps for the OP to follow, no recomendations....you simply told him that anyone that did not agree with you was too stupid to know better.

On the other hand, I posted the exact feedback that I have heard from others that have had the shock for a over a year. I also mentioned that this was specific to a particular situation and exactly how and why certain parameters of this shock may not play nicely with certain frame designs..rather than making blanket statements about people and set-ups that I do not know.

And you are right, I am a moron and an idiot. I know nothing about bikes or suspension despite my 30+ years of off road cycling, directly applicable technical education and direct industry(performance suspension, not bikes) connections. Your superior knowledge and experience is quite apparent by the use of terms like 'brake jack' (refering to a monopivot frame), 'taking compression off', and 'dialing down an adjuster'. While you are schooling all of us idiots, will you please help me better understand the difference between an underdamped, critically damped, and overdamped system in a technical manner, what these terms mean mathematically, and how they effect the funciton of an oscillating, damped, spring-mass system? How does this relate to a bicycle and which of these three setting should I employ in setting up my shock?

Please let us all know of all the different frames that you have ridden the RC4 on, and how you felt it interacted with the differing suspension designs, leverage rates, anti-squat curves...and how it compared to the same frames ridden on the same terrain with other competing shocks. The verbage YOU used, indicated that you had only a little time on a RC4...I mistakenly thought what you wrote was truth, sorry.

Since you dont see the connection with the shop, I will help you. You own with a small, new shop. This shop sells Transition, and by apperances, pretty much only Transition. By your own words. the TR4 (that you are selling) only comes with an RC4. How well are items selling that the you or your employees freely criticize? You or your employees don't actually praise or recomend a product to help sales do they?....???....

 

[Iridemtb]

As far as alternatives, some people like elkas(i don't really care for them. They're clunky in the beginning of the travel). you have to get the rc4 with the TR though. it doesn't come without a shock. Try it, you'll like it

Clunky? Sounds like you don't know how to tune a shock : ) Now I'm just bustin your balls, but you should give them another shot, I have not ridden an RC4, but I think they blow DHX's out of the water.

 

[Iridemtb]

So classic. You are not helping nor offered to help anyone. You offered NOTHING. No steps for the OP to follow, no recomendations....you simply told him that anyone that did not agree with you was too stupid to know better.

On the other hand, I posted the exact feedback that I have heard from others that have had the shock for a over a year. I also mentioned that this was specific to a particular situation and exactly how and why certain parameters of this shock may not play nicely with certain frame designs..rather than making blanket statements about people and set-ups that I do not know.

And you are right, I am a moron and an idiot. I know nothing about bikes or suspension despite my 30+ years of off road cycling, directly applicable technical education and direct industry(performance suspension, not bikes) connections. Your superior knowledge and experience is quite apparent by the use of terms like 'brake jack' (refering to a monopivot frame), 'taking compression off', and 'dialing down an adjuster'. While you are schooling all of us idiots, will you please help me better understand the difference between an underdamped, critically damped, and overdamped system in a technical manner, what these terms mean mathematically, and how they effect the funciton of an oscillating, damped, spring-mass system? How does this relate to a bicycle and which of these three setting should I employ in setting up my shock?

Please let us all know of all the different frames that you have ridden the RC4 on, and how you felt it interacted with the differing suspension designs, leverage rates, anti-squat curves...and how it compared to the same frames ridden on the same terrain with other competing shocks. The verbage YOU used, indicated that you had only a little time on a RC4...I mistakenly thought what you wrote was truth, sorry.

Since you dont see the connection with the shop, I will help you. You own with a small, new shop. This shop sells Transition, and by apperances, pretty much only Transition. By your own words. the TR4 (that you are selling) only comes with an RC4. How well are items selling that the you or your employees freely criticize? You or your employees don't actually praise or recomend a product to help sales do they?....???....

And you... you took that post really personal, why would you waste your time ranting on ridemonkey? JUST SAYIN'.

 

[toodles]

And you... you took that post really personal, why would you waste your time ranting on ridemonkey? JUST SAYIN'.

Eh? He made an excellent point and it's one I think he was certainly justified in making.

 

[buckoW]

I think on a TR 450 it would work very well but I haven't tried it. Some bikes with a lot of mechanical support in the middle third of the travel coupled with the mid stroke support caused by the bigger shaft size of the RC4 sometimes ends up being too much compression for riders not going WC fast and pounding g-outs, etc.

There is so much that is possible with the different tunes that it really depends on your frame and if the shock is tuned/setup for your bike and the speeds you ride. It is hard to say whether it is good or bad without noting the frame it was ridden on.

Frames with a lot of support, mechanically, in the middle third of their travel will need a custom tuned RC4 or the rider must go WC speeds, IMO.

I have ridden a lot of different tunes on 2 i2i lengths on the RC4 and I think that there is a lot of possibility to get the feel you want but if you are not happy then it needs to be tuned for your bike and your riding style.

 

[davep]

And you... you took that post really personal, why would you waste your time ranting on ridemonkey? JUST SAYIN'.

that is obvious......



Because I am an idiot and a moron.

 

[davep]

I think on a TR 450 it would work very well but I haven't tried it. Some bikes with a lot of mechanical support in the middle third of the travel coupled with the mid stroke support caused by the bigger shaft size of the RC4 sometimes ends up being too much compression for riders not going WC fast and pounding g-outs, etc.

There is so much that is possible with the different tunes that it really depends on your frame and if the shock is tuned/setup for your bike and the speeds you ride. It is hard to say whether it is good or bad without noting the frame it was ridden on.

Frames with a lot of support, mechanically, in the middle third of their travel will need a custom tuned RC4 or the rider must go WC speeds, IMO.

I have ridden a lot of different tunes on 2 i2i lengths on the RC4 and I think that there is a lot of possibility to get the feel you want but if you are not happy then it needs to be tuned for your bike and your riding style.

Ben, you are not welcome here with your logical, educated, and level headed thinking. Please go snowboarding!

 

[TomBigmac]

I've also been struggling with settings on my RC4 on my 2010 Glory. The bottom out, pedalling effiency and small bump reaction seems great but it seems harsh on faster hits, even when the low speed compression is wound out. I'd like to think I actually CAN notice these differences as I was on a DHX (Glory 09) last year and it definately feels harsher on the rough stuff. Perhaps I'm not going fast enough for the shock! Having read this I'd be interested to find out the rate of suspension on a '10 Glory and also whether the shock has any kind of factory tune. I have a couple collgues on the bikes too, one loves it and can't complain, the other 'feels' the same issue as me.
Maybe it's the fact I've only got 8 inches this year!

 

[jeremy_2640]

lol at pretty much every thread that pops up on here. A few constructive contributions and generally things turn into a **** fight very quickly.

As for the RC4 I'll give you an indication of how it goes in a week! Will have it in the bike in the next couple of days.

 

[Iridemtb]

that is obvious......



Because I am an idiot and a moron.

he's not worth your time anyways.

 

[Acadian]

I've also been struggling with settings on my RC4 on my 2010 Glory. The bottom out, pedalling effiency and small bump reaction seems great but it seems harsh on faster hits, even when the low speed compression is wound out. I'd like to think I actually CAN notice these differences as I was on a DHX (Glory 09) last year and it definately feels harsher on the rough stuff. Perhaps I'm not going fast enough for the shock! Having read this I'd be interested to find out the rate of suspension on a '10 Glory and also whether the shock has any kind of factory tune. I have a couple collgues on the bikes too, one loves it and can't complain, the other 'feels' the same issue as me.
Maybe it's the fact I've only got 8 inches this year!

I don't think it's just you. I've had an RC4 on my Giant Reign for most of the summer and it's definitely a bit harsh on consecutive high velocity impacts - like it lacks damping deeper in the stroke. I think this is more noticeable on bikes that have more linear rates and I can see how the shock would work well (eg. how you wouldn't feel it as much) on bikes with more progressive rates.

Still - I've been able to set mine up to the point where the bike is pretty balanced and controlled at high speed. I wouldn't go as far as saying it's a BAD shock. the HSC and LSC work really well and it offers a lot of adjustability. Mine had to go back to Fox once after the rebound started being inconsistent. But other than that, it's been pretty reliable. I'm glad I got to try one - but have I known, I probably would have bought something different.

 

[Handy Man]

will you please help me better understand the difference between an underdamped, critically damped, and overdamped system in a technical manner, what these terms mean mathematically, and how they effect the funciton of an oscillating, damped, spring-mass system? How does this relate to a bicycle and which of these three setting should I employ in setting up my shock?

for ****s and giggles:

The damping ratio (z) is the ratio of damping (c) to two times the root of the mass (m) multiplied by the spring rate (k).

Over damped: the system returns to equilibrium without oscillation (z>1)
Under damped: the system oscillates before settling at equilibrium (z<1)
Crit Damped: The system returns to equilibrium as quickly as possible without oscillating (z=1)

On a bike, and on vehicle suspension in general, critical damping is optimal

 

[kidwoo]

There's some good info here. I've ridden 3 bikes with an RC4 and only for a few runs each. Loved it on a driver 8, couldn't tell much on a dw DHR because I backed off everything but rebound damping, loved it on a demo7.

Considering what everyone here is saying about the mid stroke behavior that actually makes a lot of sense.

 

[Jeremy R]

I have not ridden an RC4, but I think they blow DHX's out of the water.

Booyahh!!
The quote above is the kind of $hit I sit around and wait for.
Thank you for the coffee spitting belly laugh.

No need to actually RIDE a shock to form an opinion, just THINK.
It will not be long until we can review products from our computer chairs.
The future is now!

 

[Jeremy R]

I think on a TR 450 it would work very well but I haven't tried it.

Hey look, another one.

 

[CBJ]

Jeremy you are getting old

 

[Slater]

Of course it worked great on a Driver 8, Which has a completely regressive shock rate.
This makes it a perfect match for such a progressive shock like the RC4.

 

[haromtnbiker]

I just got an rc4 on my new revolt. I haven't ridden it, but the shock looks superb! I can tell already by sitting on the bike that it will be exceptional. I've owned two double barrels and this fox shox is much better. I mean, look at the piston sizes!

 

[davep]

for ****s and giggles:

The damping ratio (z) is the ratio of damping (c) to two times the root of the mass (m) multiplied by the spring rate (k).

Over damped: the system returns to equilibrium without oscillation (z>1)
Under damped: the system oscillates before settling at equilibrium (z<1)
Crit Damped: The system returns to equilibrium as quickly as possible without oscillating (z=1)

On a bike, and on vehicle suspension in general, critical damping is optimal

Thank you That was more of a rehetorical question but someone might get something from it.

 

[Sandwich]

Of course it worked great on a Driver 8, Which has a completely regressive shock rate.
This makes it a perfect match for such a progressive shock like the RC4.

I thought the RC4 was LESS progressive than a DHX, which was less progressive than a 5th. Is that incorrect?

So im lookin at getting the tr 450 and it comes with the fox rc4. I've seen on here and other sites that some people don't really like them and i've seen a fair amount of them for sale. Whats the deal with them? To hard to set up or what? Anyone that has experience with the rc4 and could shed some light on its performance and ease of adjustment etc that would be great. Cheers

I was going to post something long and convoluted, but people trying to prove they're smarter than each other gets tiring. honestly, it'll probably work fine for you, and most others. I think people worry too much about what's on their bike and not enough about how to get the most out of it.

 

[Uncle Cliffy]

I've owned two double barrels and this fox shox is much better. I mean, look at the piston sizes!

 

[IH8Rice]

I just got an rc4 on my new revolt. I haven't ridden it, but the shock looks superb! I can tell already by sitting on the bike that it will be exceptional. I've owned two double barrels and this fox shox is much better. I mean, look at the piston sizes!

i coudlnt wait to get the RC4 off of my Revolt


you can see the piston?? i mean looks alone mean its a great shock

 

[Sandwich]

 

[time-bomb]

 

[bdamschen]

I have an RC4 on my 951. It feels good. I had a DHX on my SOCOM, it felt pretty good too.

As long as you get the shock tuned right for the bike it's going on and how you ride, it will work well.

Anyone who's saying they had serious problems with one shock, but then bought this other really expensive shock and had all their issues go away has a good chance of their opinion getting skewed by a placebo effect combined with not wanting to have buyers regret.

 

[Raingauge]

I have an RC4 on my Revolt and it feels pretty good. I have maybe a 1/4 turn of bottom out on it and the rest is set up from the guidelines Evil posted. Have you checked with Giant to see if they have set-up recommendations?

Below is just my BS opinions of shocks I have ridden.

My RC4 feels better than the DHX 5.0's I had on my Demo and 07 Sunday. I do feel like the Vivid I had on my 08 Sunday rode better than the RC4 on my Evil, but I haven't compared them on the same bike and it could just be due to the difference in suspension designs. The Vivid felt like the wheel tracked better through big woops and holes.

 

[Slater]

Anyone who's saying they had serious problems with one shock, but then bought this other really expensive shock and had all their issues go away has a good chance of their opinion getting skewed by a placebo effect combined with not wanting to have buyers regret.

It could also be that one shock is actually better than another. I'm pretty sure Ohlins, the winningest damper manufacturer in motorsports history, might be able to build a better, more consistent shock than Fox. Its not like Fox is known for bandaid-free MTB shocks.