[jacksonpt]

Stable platform seems to the "it" for the time being. I've never ridden any SPV stuff, so this is all just theoretical thought.

I've got a POS full suspension bike (the best consumer bike Mongoose made 4 years ago, not a Wall-mart/department store bike, but still a POS). I've got it dialed in as well as I can get it for my weight and the way I ride. It's reasonably smooth, and I don't notice any bob when climbing if I stay in the saddle. So for someone like me, who is a weekend trail rider, why would I want to go SP if/when I get a new bike?

MBA loves SP, but always says that the supposed pedaling efficiency comes at the cost of comfort on small bumps. I'm a true trail rider... if it's part of the trail, I do my damnedest to ride it... and that includes everything from drops to roots to hardpack to slop/mud/snow, uphill, flat, and downhill (I live in the northeast and I ride all year long). I need something that is efficient and plush in as many conditions as possible. I would think that a proplery tuned conventional shock (non-SP) would be a better fit for all-around riding than SP.

I guess I could see the benefit of SP for racers, where every second counts, and pedaling efficiency can make or break you, but for someone like me, why would I want a rougher ride just to gain efficiency that I don't know I'm missing?

Am I just over thinking this stuff, or is it one of those things where once I ride SP, I'll understand it's popularity?

 

[Silver]

I think it makes a big difference on certain bikes...I would have never bought my Bullit with a fox on it, for example.

 

[jacksonpt]

Originally posted by Silver
I think it makes a big difference on certain bikes...I would have never bought my Bullit with a fox on it, for example.

Yea, I could see that. however, I would tend to think that a Bullit isn't a typical trail/XC bike - isn't it like a 7 or 8" travel bike? My thoughts tend to be geared toward 4-5" travel bikes.

 

[Mike B.]

My concern with SPV is giving up small bump sensitivity which I understand can be tuned pretty well. I will likely put a Swinger air on my Loco Moto this spring to compare to the Float RL that is on there now. The Swinger (from all reports) will certainly help with the pedaling characteristics but I don't want to give up any plushness. Since you're not far away, we should meet up some time and try both shocks and see what you think.

 

[jacksonpt]

I was thinking about it today... I suspect that (generally speaking) the more tavel a bike has, the more benefit there would be from SP. I doubt a 3" XC rig like mine would benefit much from SP - a well tuned 3" rig probably doesn't lose much efficiency at the pedals, but a 5" bike certainly could.

Would you agree with that?

 

[spincrazy]

I very much like my LocoMoto with a new SPV air shock. It was good before with a Fox Vanilla R or Float RC, but now it's even better. Tuning, and the ability to FINE tune make this an excellent component/technology. Small bumps are grand, pedals phenom, waayyy plush and better feeling than either Fox I had on there. That said, what Manitou is doing with SPV in forks now I consider unnecessary and over teched. Get a rigid fork and/or learn how to ride correctly and you give up nothing. SPV in a fork is just something more to go wrong and I'm not paying extra for it.

 

[gorgechris]

I rode a couple SPV bikes, and did not like them. My trail bikes typically have 5" of travel, and with a smooth pedal stroke, the bob is minimal, and I can pedal all day w/o feeling like my legs are being sapped by the suspension movement. Conversely, the SPV bikes felt a little harsh, and I missed the smooth feeling. Also, when you really need it to stiffen up, like when you have to stand and hammer to get over or through a technical section, the SPV is overwhelmed and bottoms out, so WTF?

Conversely, I did not spend a lot of time getting it dialed in, so maybe I just hadn't hit the sweetspot on the SPV. I also do think it makes sense for a heavier bike on the trial. If you really want a sweet pedaling bike, though, go for a VPP. Mmm, Intense's trail VPP looks tasty - and way too freakin' expensive.

 

[cbcbcbcb]

I really, really like the ride of my Ellsworth Truth since I changed the shock from a Fox Float to a Romic. But I think the main difference is between the air and coil springs, not so much the damping.

The Romic is described as a stable platform shock, but I don't think it has nearly as many SPV-type features as the 5th element and other shocks.

Since you don't sound very fired up to get a new design VPP frame like a Blur and you also don't sound too excited about a really high tech shock, why not get a Horst link bike with a Romic?

Maybe a Turner 5-Spot?

 

[jacksonpt]

Originally posted by cbcbcbcb
Since you don't sound very fired up to get a new design VPP frame like a Blur and you also don't sound too excited about a really high tech shock, why not get a Horst link bike with a Romic?

Maybe a Turner 5-Spot?

It's not that I'm opposed to SP, I'm just a bit skeptical about it's benefits on a shorter travel bike.

As I mentioned before, I live in the northeast, and I ride every part of the trail I can. That means I need a bike that is an efficient climber, a smooth decender, can handle 4ft drops, and is light enough/plush enough for 4+hour rides. It's gotta me smooth over hardpack dirt trails, and root-infested sinlgetrack.

I'm looking for something under 30lbs for $2500 or less. Initially I started looking for a well built 4" trail bike, but 4" rigs are hard to find. Right now, the leading candidates are the Santa Cruz Heckler ($2400), Specialized Eduro Expert ($2400), and Trek Liquid 25 ($1800). The Heckler and the Liquid are 5" SP bikes, while the Enduro is switchable between 4 and 5". The Hecker is probably built more like what I need, but the Trek is spec'ed much better for significantly less money. The Titus switchblade looks like a killer bike, but is WAAAAY out of my price range.

Anyways, back to the point of the thread. I'm not opposed to any suspension design, but from what I've read, I don't see the point in running SP in anything under a 5" travel setup.

 

[JRogers]

SPV, as others have said, is best suited for use on longer travel bikes. Or, rather, it makes more of a difference on those. From what I can think of, most short travel XC bikes don't have SPV shocks. The biggest advantage of the technology is that you can get more travel and better efficiency at the same time without sacrificing much in terms of all out performance.

Also, SPV is very dependent on tuning and, it seems to me, one could just let all the air out of the SPV chamber (or use less than the recommended amount) and it would run pretty much like a normal shock.

 

[X-rider]

Have you thought about trying the Fox Pro Pedal AVA? It is supposed to reduce bobbing while remaining small bump compliant.

 

[Skookum]

i ride like you man and i like my man spv on my VT2. i was running an i-drive before and to me it's comparable as far as reducing bob. On forest road climbs if i'm careful not to trip the blow-off i can stand on a higher gear and climb without bob, but of course you can't stand and hammer efficiently unless your in time with the bob on a mad standing rush.
As far as being stiff on small stutters, you can adjust your blow-off valve and you can also adjust the main chamber to how stiff a ride you want for climbing versus comfortable slackness for descending and such.
i personally have mine dialed in with a lot of pressure and the blow off valve dialed in for more of a choppy ride but better effiecient climbing. I like all advantages of an effiecient climbing machine and personally don't mind the choppiness that comes with that. I mean sure it's a little stiffer choppier ride but really i don't seem to notice the shock being way too unresponsive on fast stutter sections, all things considered. And i wiegh 220 lbs and it absorbs small drops just fine for me.

here's a look at my bikey

 

[gorgechris]

Originally posted by jacksonpt
The Titus switchblade looks like a killer bike, but is WAAAAY out of my price range.

I recently purchased a used Switchblade frame and, for the couple of times I rode it before the snow settled in, I really like it. I got an '02 (non-instant travel adjustment) in good shape for $750.

 

[oldfart]

I have it on both ends of my Blur. %th Element Air on the back, Manitou Minute 2:00 100mm on the front.

My understanding of the way it is supposed to work is that it effectively increases the compression damping so that pedalling induced forces, which are imparted slowly and at relatively low energy to the suspension are filtered out. But impacts are delivered in a sharper, spikier way which opens up the SPV valving to reduce the compression damping. With the manitou fork you can also adjust the air volume of the valve so that as the fork approaches full compression, the air pressure increases and closes the damping down and prevent or control bottoming. In that way it can be set quite soft but not bottom.

What I find with the fork is that it rides higher than a non spv fork. dives much less under braking and cornering. The affect for meon the technical trails I ride is that I have greater control and an increased ability to clean stuff. Its funny. Its like it rides stiffer but softer at the same time. I'm getting full travel on the biggest hits. Its only the really little stuff that doesn't get sucked up. But roots over a cm (1/2 inch ) set it in motion.

I have never been impressed with Manitou forks in the past, but I think that Manitou have really stepped up to the plate in the last couple years with some decent product. There's a distinct lack of plastic on my fork, all metal from what I can see on the outside.

The 5th Air on the back is less noticable to me. But I set the ifp to filter out seated pedaling imputs, and it moves a little when I stand and a bit more when I sprint. I have a 5th on my old single pivot Superlight and it effectively eliminated even sprinting induced motion. Yet it was good and plush on regular hits.

I don't know that I'd go for it specifically on a 80mm travel or less race bike, but 100mm and up trail bikes, I think its a good thing. I think I ride better with it.

 

[berkshire_rider]

What kind of riding is the Minute series designed to handle? Will it stand up hitting 3-4 foot drops and light DH or is the Sherman the better choice for that type of riding?

 

[oldfart]

Its not a freeride fork according to their literature, but a cross country fork. Not XC race either but that's what I'll be using it for. That's my style of riding really. We call it extreme xc as oposed to "shore" rides. Its rugged in North Van but there are trails which are steep and twisty with few drops which require air time. But true xc race fork like a SID would not be a good choice. Too flexy and not enough travel.