[Bldr_DH]

This issue has been going for long enough, so I might as well start doing something about it. Ok, the basic rundown is this: I have a 1.5 mbps connection through Qwest DSL... it's running through a network here at home (kind of crazy with a number of hubs) and my machine is connected via a hub, not directly to the router. Aaannywho, for the past year or so, at least once a week, often more, the connection will seem to flicker on and off. By this I mean, it will work fine for five-ten minutes, stop working for 30 seconds, then reconnect for five-ten minutes... the cycle continues for several hours. As you can imagine, playing games online is incredibly frustrating when this happens as it'll boot me from my game, I'll reconnect for a short while, and it'll boot me again.

So, my question is this: Does anyone know if these are symptoms of a network problem, or in issue with the provider? I realize I have a pretty ambiguous case... not a lot to troubleshoot with, but hopefully I can narrow the search by a few degrees.

Thanks in advance.

 

[LordOpie]

first, do you reset/power-off your router, say, once a week?

Right or wrong, i have to do it. I turn it and my cable modem off for a minute, power on, and am then ok for several days to a week.

 

[Bldr_DH]

Hmm, I'll have to give that a shot, though I'm not sure how effective it will be. In the past I have power cycled when this problem has come up, but it didn't remedy the problem right away, though I'm not sure if the power cycle is more of a 'pays off in the long run' sort of deal. Seems to me that it should stop the flickering immediately after the power cycle, though (assuming this works in the first place).

Is your problem similar, with the flickering effect, or does yours seem to stop working for a longer period of time if you don't power cycle?

 

[binary visions]

My immediate guess is it's a wiring problem. You've got a short somewhere, or some crosstalk between the wires or something. Did you crimp your own wiring? Do you ever transfer files between computers, and if so, does your network performance suffer?

Wait.. Is this flickering with your entire network connection or just internet connectivity?

My guess is it's probably not a power cycle issue with the router. It's true that you often need to reboot routers to keep them working properly but the symptoms of that are usually either extremely slow connections or lack of one at all - "fixed" issues vs. flickering connections.

If possible, try connecting directly to your DSL modem with your computer and see if the issue goes away. That, at least, isolates it to being a physical problem with your networking components.

 

[Mastamind]

I would Binary is right, in that it is a wiring problem. If it's a hardware problem I would say it's because of the hubs on the network. How many are connected in the network, because you can only run wire so far in between hubs.

 

[Bldr_DH]

Seems like the general consenus is that the issue is within the household and not a problem with the ISP. It could very well be a wiring or hardware issue as our network is rather ridiculous. Goes something like this: (hopefully it'll show up the way I type it)

Router ----> Hub -----> Computer
..........................\-----> Hub -----> Computer (Mine)
............................................\----> Hub -----> Computer
............................................................\-----> Computer

Lots of places for something to go wrong/be faulty. If I get time this week, I'll have to find a way to directly connect with the DSL modem and test if the problem still comes up. Hopefully I'll be able to catch a time when the problem is going and both of my P's won't need the internet.

 

[SkaredShtles]

Seems like the general consenus is that the issue is within the household and not a problem with the ISP. It could very well be a wiring or hardware issue as our network is rather ridiculous. Goes something like this: (hopefully it'll show up the way I type it)

Router ----> Hub -----> Computer
..........................\-----> Hub -----> Computer (Mine)
............................................\----> Hub -----> Computer
............................................................\-----> Computer

Lots of places for something to go wrong/be faulty. If I get time this week, I'll have to find a way to directly connect with the DSL modem and test if the problem still comes up. Hopefully I'll be able to catch a time when the problem is going and both of my P's won't need the internet.

Methinks you may have too many hubs:

http://www.darron.net/network/fifthpage.html

Why don't you try connecting all computers to a single hub?

 

[binary visions]

Seems like the general consenus is that the issue is within the household and not a problem with the ISP. It could very well be a wiring or hardware issue as our network is rather ridiculous. Goes something like this: (hopefully it'll show up the way I type it)

Router ----> Hub -----> Computer
..........................\-----> Hub -----> Computer (Mine)
............................................\----> Hub -----> Computer
............................................................\-----> Computer

Lots of places for something to go wrong/be faulty. If I get time this week, I'll have to find a way to directly connect with the DSL modem and test if the problem still comes up. Hopefully I'll be able to catch a time when the problem is going and both of my P's won't need the internet.

That's a mess. Too many hubs.

You only have 4 computers. You should only need one hub - or, at a maximum if you have an access issue in the house, two. Find a way to run some more wire so you don't need the third hub, then carefully inspect your wiring for cracks, kinks, or badly crimped ends.

Your ends should look like this:

If the housing is not crimped INSIDE the plastic terminator (i.e. you can see the individual twisted pairs hanging out beyond the plastic terminator) then you need a new wire or need to re-crimp your current wires.

 

[Reactor]

This issue has been going for long enough, so I might as well start doing something about it. Ok, the basic rundown is this: I have a 1.5 mbps connection through Qwest DSL... it's running through a network here at home (kind of crazy with a number of hubs) and my machine is connected via a hub, not directly to the router. Aaannywho, for the past year or so, at least once a week, often more, the connection will seem to flicker on and off. By this I mean, it will work fine for five-ten minutes, stop working for 30 seconds, then reconnect for five-ten minutes... the cycle continues for several hours. As you can imagine, playing games online is incredibly frustrating when this happens as it'll boot me from my game, I'll reconnect for a short while, and it'll boot me again.

So, my question is this: Does anyone know if these are symptoms of a network problem, or in issue with the provider? I realize I have a pretty ambiguous case... not a lot to troubleshoot with, but hopefully I can narrow the search by a few degrees.

Thanks in advance.

Are they hubs or switches? If they are hubs are they "dual speed"? I've seen problems like this before where switches and dual speed hubs are trying to renegotiate speed and or duplex. Every so often one link sees something it doesn't like and the whole process starts over again.

 

[Reactor]

Methinks you may have too many hubs:

http://www.darron.net/network/fifthpage.html

Why don't you try connecting all computers to a single hub?

The hub limits are guidelines, based on worse case repeater delays. The actual Ethernet limit is more complicated, it's based on the amount of time it takes a minimum sized packet to transmit across the network. The smallest allowable packet in ethernet is 64 bytes or 512 bits. The speed of propagation depends on the media (coax, wire, fiber) and the repeater delays. The worse case is that you'ed get late collisions and lose some packets, while your computer ethernet card thought they were successfully transmitted. It wouldn't cause 30 second network hangs on a network with 7-8 devices.


Here's a more detailed explanation. Yes they also say 2 for 100tx and but explain the bit times.


All that being said, why don't you go wireless to some of the computers?

 

[binary visions]

Are they hubs or switches? If they are hubs are they "dual speed"? I've seen problems like this before where switches and dual speed hubs are trying to renegotiate speed and or duplex. Every so often one link sees something it doesn't like and the whole process starts over again.

Most people say "hub" and mean "switch" - you can't even buy hubs anymore... I just assumed he meant switch.

 

[Qman]

Methinks you may have too many hubs:

http://www.darron.net/network/fifthpage.html

Why don't you try connecting all computers to a single hub?

...or to a single, 4 port router and skip the hub/switches all together?

 

[Bldr_DH]

Yeah -- I always had heard the term hub, so I figured it was right. Now I know otherwise. Thanks for all of the help everyone. I think I have some ammo against the evil flickering internet of doom.

 

[SkaredShtles]

Yeah -- I always had heard the term hub, so I figured it was right. Now I know otherwise. Thanks for all of the help everyone. I think I have some ammo against the evil flickering internet of doom.

So what are they? Hubs? Switches? PB&Js?

 

[Reactor]

So what are they? Hubs? Switches? PB&Js?

Poptarts....Evil freedom hating poptarts.irate2: :biggrin: