[OGRipper]

I've always had the best luck with spoke prep/light thread lock on the spoke threads, coupled with a drop of lube on the outside of the nipple, after lacing but before tensioning. That's the best way to get the wheel up to proper tension and help it stay that way long-term. Spoke prep acts like thread lube during the build, then dries to hold the tension. A drop of lube outside the nipple helps prevent damage to the rim and makes it easier to bring up the tension. Disclaimer: I've never had an issue, but I suppose you'd want to check for any chemical issues with using a small amount of lube on the outside of a nipple with a carbon rim.

Spoke tension gauges are like torque wrenches and tire pressure gauges IMO. Sure, it's best to use them all, all the time, but in reality they're not necessary every time, so long as you use them a few times and know you're in the ballpark. But a dishing gauge is absolutely necessary.

 

[Jm_]

I've always had the best luck with spoke prep/light thread lock on the spoke threads, coupled with a drop of lube on the outside of the nipple, after lacing but before tensioning. That's the best way to get the wheel up to proper tension and help it stay that way long-term. Spoke prep acts like thread lube during the build, then dries to hold the tension. A drop of lube outside the nipple helps prevent damage to the rim and makes it easier to bring up the tension. Disclaimer: I've never had an issue, but I suppose you'd want to check for any chemical issues with using a small amount of lube on the outside of a nipple with a carbon rim.

Spoke tension gauges are like torque wrenches and tire pressure gauges IMO. Sure, it's best to use them all, all the time, but in reality they're not necessary every time, so long as you use them a few times and know you're in the ballpark. But a dishing gauge is absolutely necessary.

I always had problem with the spoke prep drying too much before I was done tensioning/truing the wheel and then again, down the road, it'd lock the nipples with such force that the nipple would not turn independently of the spoke, so as you tried to true the wheel, it'd just twist the spoke. I'm not sure what the solution is for that.

 

[Westy]

I always had problem with the spoke prep drying too much before I was done tensioning/truing the wheel and then again, down the road, it'd lock the nipples with such force that the nipple would not turn independently of the spoke, so as you tried to true the wheel, it'd just twist the spoke. I'm not sure what the solution is for that.

The directions that came with my spoke prep said to let the stuff dry before using. But like you, I found it doesn't work well once dried.

There are so many methods for wheelbuilding and all of them work well in different scenarios. It is one of those things where "it depends" is usually the answer. I like to build my wheels with as high a spoke tension as I can. In that application Anti-sieze on the threads and spoke heads has worked well.

For lower tension builds some type of locking agent is a good idea. My last build was 'medium' tension for reasons I will not get into, and just using a lubricant didn't work well. After re-truing I used penetrating loctite and haven't had to touch them since. As the threads have lubricant residue on them I didn't get the full loctite effect, which is nice as I can re-true when necessary.

 

[OGRipper]

Weird. Never had the issue of it locking before final tensioning, or locking so tightly that it resulted in wind-up later. My only guess is maybe too much prep on the threads, you really only need a light coating. (See the last paragraph of the directions above.)

Aluminum nipples can bind regardless, which is just one of the reasons I always prefer brass.

 

[Jm_]

The directions that came with my spoke prep said to let the stuff dry before using. But like you, I found it doesn't work well once dried.


View attachment 148014


There are so many methods for wheelbuilding and all of them work well in different scenarios. It is one of those things where "it depends" is usually the answer. I like to build my wheels with as high a spoke tension as I can. In that application Anti-sieze on the threads and spoke heads has worked well.

For lower tension builds some type of locking agent is a good idea. My last build was 'medium' tension for reasons I will not get into, and just using a lubricant didn't work well. After re-truing I used penetrating loctite and haven't had to touch them since. As the threads have lubricant residue on them I didn't get the full loctite effect, which is nice as I can re-true when necessary.

Yeah, that's what I remember now, drying it out first. Been a while since I worked with that tan spoke prep stuff.

 

[velocipedist]

I definitely experienced this on a first gen light bicycle wheelset with Al nipples, nearly all of them failed at the spoke head within 6 months and sounded like sand in the wheel, fine white powder corrosion covering thr rim tape.

Moved to brass and no issues. I doubt it is as much of a worry with modern carbon post processing treatments as it used to be.

I didn't know about the carbon/galvanic corrosion link...

 

[Westy]

I definitely experienced this on a first gen light bicycle wheelset with Al nipples, nearly all of them failed at the spoke head within 6 months and sounded like sand in the wheel, fine white powder corrosion covering thr rim tape.

Moved to brass and no issues. I doubt it is as much of a worry with modern carbon post processing treatments as it used to be.

I had the same problem with a set of Reynolds carbon wheels, but only on the front wheel. Coincidentally I tend to sweat all over the front of my bike, but not the back.

 

[Pesqueeb]

Park stand, dishing tool, wrenches, and tensiometer ordered. Guess I better start watching some youtubes.

 

[Nick]

Park stand, dishing tool, wrenches, and tensiometer ordered. Guess I better start watching some youtubes.

This is all anybody needs...

Wheelbuilding

A tutorial on how to choose parts for, build and true a spoked bicycle wheel

www.sheldonbrown.com

 

[Pesqueeb]

This is all anybody needs...

Wheelbuilding

A tutorial on how to choose parts for, build and true a spoked bicycle wheel

www.sheldonbrown.com

@jonKranked recommended that to me earlier as well.

Not to dismiss any info that might be contained within, especially given the fine gentlemen who have referenced it, but yikes, Netscape called and wants it's early 90s website back.

 

[StiHacka]

Not to dismiss any info that might be contained within, especially given the fine gentlemen who have referenced it, but yikes, Netscape called and wants it's early 90s website back.

Mr. Brown has been dead for a while now. Yet, still the best resource on wheel building you can find.

 

[Nick]

No doubt.
There is no "better" reference.

 

[jstuhlman]

concur. and once you get the lacing pattern down it's kinda zen.

one thing to be careful of. if your spoke holes are directional (my ex471s are), make sure the spokes are coming from the correct side of the hub, or else your tensioning will be fucked.

 

[Westy]

Concentricity is a lot harder to fix than side to side adjustments. Focus on that as you tension things up, wobble is easy to fix later.

 

[valve bouncer]

I liked this video Squeeb. I tried making my own wheels recently too, I think it's one of those things where the more you know the more you realise you don't know. I vacillated between thinking I've got this to you know nothing Jon Snow pretty quick. Bike isn't finished yet so I can't tell you how the wheels have worked out but I think they'll be ok. Then Westy says concentricity is hard to fix and I think about chucking them in the rubbish again. You're not a seven thumbed spanner masher so you'll be ok.

 

[Pesqueeb]

I liked this video Squeeb. I tried making my own wheels recently too, I think it's one of those things where the more you know the more you realise you don't know. I vacillated between thinking I've got this to you know nothing Jon Snow pretty quick. Bike isn't finished yet so I can't tell you how the wheels have worked out but I think they'll be ok. Then Westy says concentricity is hard to fix and I think about chucking them in the rubbish again. You're not a seven thumbed spanner masher so you'll be ok.

Holy shit, ValveBouncer drive by!

Also, thanks for the video. Will update.

 

[Jm_]

I liked this video Squeeb. I tried making my own wheels recently too, I think it's one of those things where the more you know the more you realise you don't know. I vacillated between thinking I've got this to you know nothing Jon Snow pretty quick. Bike isn't finished yet so I can't tell you how the wheels have worked out but I think they'll be ok. Then Westy says concentricity is hard to fix and I think about chucking them in the rubbish again. You're not a seven thumbed spanner masher so you'll be ok.

His bit about aluminum nipples and reaching higher tension with them

I guess the rest of it is ok, just as good to read sheldon brown though IMO.

 

[OGRipper]

Concentricity is a lot harder to fix than side to side adjustments. Focus on that as you tension things up, wobble is easy to fix later.

Agreed. Check for roundness early and often. (Same with dish - get it at least in the ballpark early, and keep checking.) It helps to go slow and deliberate when bringing up the tension. An egg shape means you don't have even tension all around, and even tension is really important for a strong wheel. A lot of newbs are surprised to feel how much things tighten up as you move around the wheel, so take it easy. An extra pass or two of quarter turns is better than ham-fisting it and needing to go back and de-tension half the wheel to get it round.

 

[6thElement]

My task tonight, swap this rear hub shell for my current rear wheel broken one.

 

[HAB]

My task tonight, swap this rear hub shell for my current rear wheel broken one.View attachment 148208

More importantly, what are you drinking? That's a two beer job for sure.

 

[Jm_]

More importantly, what are you drinking? That's a two beer job for sure.

I think you are woefully underestimating this job, it's definitely into the hard liquor arena.

 

[Brian HCM#1]

I just finished building my first set of 29” carbon wheels. In the past, just used tri flow on the nipple seats & spoke threads and checked tension by feel. Never had a wheel fail. This time I used spoke prepaid a tension gauge. Seem to build up quite easily and its free. Park tool has a cool tension app allows you to calculate the total spoke tension on the wheel. DT has a little video on assembling a rear wheel. Paying attention to spoke direction is important.

https://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/wheel-tension-balance-app-instructions

 

[Jm_]

I just finished building my first set of 29” carbon wheels. In the past, just used tri flow on the nipple seats & spoke threads and checked tension by feel. Never had a wheel fail. This time I used spoke prepaid a tension gauge. Seem to build up quite easily and its free. Park tool has a cool tension app allows you to calculate the total spoke tension on the wheel. DT has a little video on assembling a rear wheel. Paying attention to spoke direction is important.

https://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/wheel-tension-balance-app-instructions

View attachment 148245View attachment 148246View attachment 148247View attachment 148248View attachment 148249View attachment 148250View attachment 148251View attachment 148252View attachment 148253

Building and truing carbon is a dream compared to alloy IME. I get so OCD over little imperfections that I'd never be able to address on noodle aluminum wheels. The building process is one of the places where you see the dramatic difference, where carbon, once true, can't really go out of true unless there is a massive event, like a spoke failure.

 

[6thElement]

Swapped the hub from above, wheel is sitting in the stand waiting to be tensioned. Swapping a rim is a lot less hassle...

edit: Tensioned, trued, de-stressed, tubeless taped, tire mounted with tube to squash the tape into place overnight.

I'll check the tension again once I have the tire mounted tubeless and then it should be good to go.

 

[Brian HCM#1]

Building and truing carbon is a dream compared to alloy IME. I get so OCD over little imperfections that I'd never be able to address on noodle aluminum wheels. The building process is one of the places where you see the dramatic difference, where carbon, once true, can't really go out of true unless there is a massive event, like a spoke failure.

Agreed, I just finished up changing a few spokes and truing wheels on the DH bike, damn spoke windup. That's even after hitting each nipple & insert with Tri Flow. Still rocking Mavic EX823's with CK hubs, a few N* rock dents and got it as true and balanced as possible (still pretty F'ed up, oh well, it a DH bike). Funny after pulling the wheels on the DH bike and after working on my 29er, I never realized how friggen heavy those wheels really are. Crazy how the industry has changed since we all joined RM. The carbon wheels were a breeze to build & true, you are 100% correct!

 

[jonKranked]

Agreed, I just finished up changing a few spokes and truing wheels on the DH bike, damn spoke windup. That's even after hitting each nipple & insert with Tri Flow. Still rocking Mavic EX823's with CK hubs, a few N* rock dents and got it as true and balanced as possible (still pretty F'ed up, oh well, it a DH bike). Funny after pulling the wheels on the DH bike and after working on my 29er, I never realized how friggen heavy those wheels really are. Crazy how the industry has changed since we all joined RM. The carbon wheels were a breeze to build & true, you are 100% correct!

that's one thing that sold me on carbon wheels (not even counting performance aspects) is never having to true the damn things.

 

[StiHacka]

Crabon rimz + bladed spokes == the easiest wheels to build

 

[jonKranked]

Crabon rimz + bladed spokes == the easiest wheels to build

i too have come to appreciate bladed spokes.

also just ordered silver 14 straight gauge spokes

 

[englertracing]

Crabon rimz + bladed spokes == the easiest wheels to build

And they look boss

 

[johnbryanpeters]

And they look boss

I'm sure that they always match your lipstick.

 

[jonKranked]

I'm sure that they always match your lipstick.

oh cool, a thinly veiled homophobic insult.

 

[Nick]

Or an obvious "form follows function" call out.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

oh cool, a thinly veiled homophobic insult.

I understand how it could be read in that context. It was intended as a slap at style over function, irrespective of the context of sexuality.

 

[jonKranked]

I understand how it could be read in that context. It was intended as a slap at style over function, irrespective of the context of sexuality.

it certainly can be, i said my piece. i moved on.

there is certainly a functional aspect of bladed spokes when it comes to wheel building that it's a great visual indicator for when you're getting spoke wind up.

 

[Jm_]

it certainly can be, i said my piece. i moved on.

there is certainly a functional aspect of bladed spokes when it comes to wheel building that it's a great visual indicator for when you're getting spoke wind up.

It's more like they are letting you build shitty wheels though, because you can hold them in place easier and you shouldn't be getting the wind-up in the first place if you are using a proper lubricant/prep. The only "windup" issues I've seen in years the ones I described before, where the nipples seize due to poor prep.

I just de-nippled (ooh!) and re-nippled a wheel I've been having tape trouble with (due to paint overspray on the rim bed, I'm hoping). But some sealant got in there and had been sloshing around for a while and I figured, what the hell, I'll just re-do this with some of the few hundred brass nipples I have on hand. Turned on to be real easy, the prep I had used made taking them off a dream, even years later, and corrosion, which I was mainly concerned about, wasn't nearly as bad as I thought.

 

[englertracing]

It's more like they are letting you build shitty wheels though, because you can hold them in place easier and you shouldn't be getting the wind-up in the first place if you are using a proper lubricant/prep. The only "windup" issues I've seen in years the ones I described before, where the nipples seize due to poor prep.

I just de-nippled (ooh!) and re-nippled a wheel I've been having tape trouble with (due to paint overspray on the rim bed, I'm hoping). But some sealant got in there and had been sloshing around for a while and I figured, what the hell, I'll just re-do this with some of the few hundred brass nipples I have on hand. Turned on to be real easy, the prep I had used made taking them off a dream, even years later, and corrosion, which I was mainly concerned about, wasn't nearly as bad as I thought.

You really wanna put tape in revolutions or lasers? Or do you just not wanna know they are wound up?

 

[Jm_]

You really wanna put tape in revolutions or lasers? Or do you just not wanna know they are wound up?

Uh, what? I was referring to rim tape.

 

[canadmos]

You guys really love your nipple talk.

 

[Jm_]

You guys really love your nipple talk.

I almost scraped a nipple off a few min ago. Ouch.

 

[canadmos]

I almost scraped a nipple off a few min ago. Ouch.

You skimped on the nipple prep, didn't you?