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Wheel size comparison, data based

slyfink

Turbo Monkey
Sep 16, 2008
5,809
1,600
Ottawa, Canada
This is rubbish^^^

This thread is already full of nonsense, lets at least try to not to add more
Hey, it's a forum! I get to ask questions right?! Maybe float a trial ballon?! jeez, why so serious?

anyways, I was evidently not sure of my argument in that post....

so here's an honest question: what tires were they running? I thought Claudio was running Hans Dampfs. Hardly a tire for a tough track such as that? Though I suppose he could have been running proto versions of the Super Gravity line...

And Fearon, what tires would he have been running? And Bingelli at Rampage?

These are serious riders at serious events... perhaps we'll all have serious tire choices quite quickly?
 
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iRider

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2008
1,878
236
He was not the only rider I saw fall victim to that thing over the weekend, certainly not something I'd blame on his tire/rim choice.
Maybe it was coincidence, but as far as I can remember all riders with problems were on Schwalbe tires. Playing with proto stuff? :think:
 

frorider

Monkey
Jul 21, 2004
958
5
cali
Basic textbook equations show that in fact, since angular velocity decreases (for a given forward bike speed) as diameter increases, the angular momentum L will be near constant. If we ignore the mass of the spokes relative to the rim and tire mass, then L = r X mv.

As r increases, v decreases for a given fwd bike velocity. To put it another way...if you combine equations for momentum and moment of inertia, the radius terms cancel out.

I have several years of experience w/ 29ers and, with compensatory gearing and similar rims and tires, I've never noticed any additional effort getting the bike 'up to speed' w/ the larger wheels. i.e. the physics agree w/ the perception in my case.

Perhaps the improved wheel build technologies available today (straight-pull spokes, which have less elongation than a j hook, and stiffer rims esp carbon fiber) will help 650b work out in terms of lateral stiffness and overall strength etc. i.e. maybe it's a good thing 650b is taking off in 2013 rather than 2007.

The angle of attack is shallower with the bigger wheels but I've not seen a convincing mathematical proof that this effect alone is enough to explain the difference felt between riding similar 26er and 29er hardtails.
 

sbabuser

Turbo Monkey
Dec 22, 2004
1,080
32
Golden, CO
I'm wondering (referring to the magazine test posted here) how different volume tires with the same pressure can be considered the same set up. That's like testing air shocks with 3 different volume canisters but running the same pressure and expecting that to homogenize their performance.
 

SkullCrack

Monkey
Sep 3, 2004
653
52
PNW
This press release says Lars Peyer was on 650b for the last 4 races of the season.

“After testing and comparing the new 650b wheels to the standard 26”wheels I’ve got to say I’m hooked!” Notes Lars after competing on the 650b wheels at the last 4 races of the season with great results.
http://www.vitalmtb.com/news/press-release/SC-Intense-Adds-Buchanan-and-Connell-Says-Theyre-Racing-650B-at-World-Cups-for-2013,693

Not sure if they are referring to world cups, or some other series.
 
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Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
15,829
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01776
Eh, all the tossers didn't like the article I posted with three laps each on each bike on different days. Scientifically, the PB test is trash, but since it reinforces the 26er stereotype, we'll see how it does. One lap on each, once? And you were fastest on the last lap? Huh.
 

norbar

Turbo Monkey
Jun 7, 2007
9,496
314
Warsaw :/
Eh, all the tossers didn't like the article I posted with three laps each on each bike on different days. Scientifically, the PB test is trash, but since it reinforces the 26er stereotype, we'll see how it does. One lap on each, once? And you were fastest on the last lap? Huh.
Read it to the end. He was also the fastest downhill on the FIRST lap. So the total time gained wasn't really due to knowing the trail since that doesn't give you as big of an advantage on the uphill.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
15,829
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and there it is.


It's a subjective test and his conclusions are based primarily on his opinion and feel.
 

MDJ

Monkey
Dec 15, 2005
670
0
San Jose, CA
"All of us currently own and ride 26-inch bikes, and Giulio and Alex have never spent much time on any other wheelsize"

So... spend 20 years riding a 26 and then take two other sizes out for a quick lap, and this is a real comparison? No wonder they liked 26 the best. What a joke.
 

norbar

Turbo Monkey
Jun 7, 2007
9,496
314
Warsaw :/
"All of us currently own and ride 26-inch bikes, and Giulio and Alex have never spent much time on any other wheelsize"

So... spend 20 years riding a 26 and then take two other sizes out for a quick lap, and this is a real comparison? No wonder they liked 26 the best. What a joke.
He never claimed it's a scientific comparison so what are you getting aggressive about?

Yes it's subjective and yes it may be habbit but it also goes against the "you will instantly love 650b and you will never look back so there is no choice" mantra some people have been ranting about. It's not that black and white.

On the other hand after I went from 24 to 26'' on my dj bike I felt the positive change immediately.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
15,829
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no results anywhere....just a garbage magazine's claim on april fool's day. hmmm.
 

kidwoo

Celebrating No-Pants Day
Aug 25, 2003
21,992
1,680
In my pants
"Hey Rockjeebus "

Holy shlt, people still say that? Damn, I'm awesome.



You guys have seen fontana right? It's a couple of rocky sections with some wind sprints, one on totally flat ground. I'm actually surprised mitch rode a suspension bike. It probably slowed him down.

And I'm totally down with that theory tabletop. I doubt specialized even had to have the conversation though. They probably just injected the thoughts or conveyed them through a series of strobes in mitch and gwinn's sleep.
 

kidwoo

Celebrating No-Pants Day
Aug 25, 2003
21,992
1,680
In my pants
Seb Kemp is "outside of Santa Cruz's inner circle?"

That's pretty funny. Must be why he had the bike so long ago.


I'm DEFINITELY outside of their inner circle. Can I have one too? I'll totallly like, ride it, and stuff.

edit: promise!
 
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csermonet

Monkey
Mar 5, 2010
940
122
i took a swill of koolaid and ordered this today...

After seeing the video of the SC world cuppers mobbin that thing, I would order one too if i had the cash.

Another trail bike that looks to have rip-ability is the Uprising, although I think its a 26r? Either way the current crop of trail bikes are freakin sweet. The Norco 650b got good reviews on Vital recently.
 

Huck Banzai

Turbo Monkey
May 8, 2005
2,526
21
Transitory
I was curious about 29, especially being 6'8", but every try - including TB LT just felt incorrect.... The 29 for tall guys didn't ring true. Unless some magic revolution in geometry and design occurs, I dont see a 9er in my future, ever.

So - now curious about 650b, and no peep of an XXL option; guessing the 29er is for tall guys idea isn't a touching point for 650b? I could use an XXL 26, but at least vanity thinks I'd look more 'to scale' on a larger wheel.

I dont have any complaints about my 4 26" bikes; at least not anything to do with the wheels. And they're all SC.
 

OGRipper

Turbo Monkey
Feb 3, 2004
9,703
139
NORCAL is the hizzle
More fuel for the fire over at pinkbike: http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Opinion-Mitch-Ropelato-Wins-Fontana-DH-on-a-29er-Trail-Bike.html

Perfect interweb fodder: Lots of opinions and no right answers. Was it the course? The bike? The riders? Lack of motivation/fitness/appetite for risk?

Love the rumor that Mitch lost a bet to Gwin so he had to ride the niner, and then took the win anyway. That kid has got the skills to pay the bills. Maybe he made a deal with the devil? How would Rock Jesus feel about that? :D

I'm also stoked that as riders, we have a ton of kick-ass options for the bikes we want to ride. The complaints seem to boil down to thinly-veiled fear of being off the back of the latest and greatest, even for people stoked with their current rides.
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,007
149
The Cleft of Venus
More fuel for the fire over at pinkbike: http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Opinion-Mitch-Ropelato-Wins-Fontana-DH-on-a-29er-Trail-Bike.html

Perfect interweb fodder: Lots of opinions and no right answers. Was it the course? The bike? The riders? Lack of motivation/fitness/appetite for risk?

Love the rumor that Mitch lost a bet to Gwin so he had to ride the niner, and then took the win anyway. That kid has got the skills to pay the bills. Maybe he made a deal with the devil? How would Rock Jesus feel about that? :D

I'm also stoked that as riders, we have a ton of kick-ass options for the bikes we want to ride. The complaints seem to boil down to thinly-veiled fear of being off the back of the latest and greatest, even for people stoked with their current rides.

Good stuff going on over one the Angel Fire FB page, where the dudes at AF told Mitch to leave his 29r at home for their course:
https://www.facebook.com/angelfirebikepark
 

Huck Banzai

Turbo Monkey
May 8, 2005
2,526
21
Transitory
Well, I wonder what it could possibly be that is making you think you might need something else then.......





:D
jokes are jokes, but those aside, why am I looking? because it's there, and it might be an improvement.

Sure there's a ton of marketing going on, but that same attitude disdained shocks, then full suspension, then discs, forks with more than 4" of travel....


I'm curious because while I dont 'have any complaints', that amounts to saying 'nothing has prooved itself better' - and now it's 650B's turn to try.



Also - mods - of ALL forums everywhere - NOTE: it is not useful to immediately tag a post as EDITED because someone went back in to expand or correct something *****UNLESS***** someone has made a subsequent post.

'catching people changing their story' seems to be some gotchas idea, but the problem is any edit is assumed to be a CYA/FixUp.

Try it, its called good moderation. (Hey GritHoagie, Im talkin to you!)
 
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Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
15,829
937
01776
Also - mods - of ALL forums everywhere - NOTE: it is not useful to immediately tag a post as EDITED because someone went back in to expand or correct something *****UNLESS***** someone has made a subsequent post.

'catching people changing their story' seems to be some gotchas idea, but the problem is any edit is assumed to be a CYA/FixUp.

Try it, its called good moderation. (Hey GritHoagie, Im talkin to you!)
uh, what?

if this is somehow targeted at me, I don't control anything. RM automatically tags a post as edited if you change it any more than like 30 seconds after you post it. I can't remove or change it. I can unedit it, if you said something really stupid, so that internerds can make fun of you. The only editing I actually do, however, is to reduce unhelpful cursing or aggressive behavior. Otherwise, have at it tools.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
15,829
937
01776
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?