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Wheel Trouble - What is Fair?

Discussion in 'The Shop' started by syadasti, Sep 9, 2005.

  1. syadasti

    syadasti i heart mac

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    I had a nice wheel build by a LBS:

    DT Swiss Hugi FR 135 QR
    Alpine III Spokes
    Brass Nipples
    Sun Singletrack Retail (welded and pinned)

    This wheel has last a bit and only need to be trued once in the riding I did for most of the season (less rocky area). I moved back to NJ and rode one of my favorite trails in PA which is like 15 miles of rock gardens and got the wheel out of true (only second ride back in the area - both rides were in rocky terrain).

    Wheels are about the only things I don't do myself since some people are far better at it than others (I've built one front wheel and rear, but they take me forever).

    Anyhow, I took the wheel in to get trued - they true it. I go to take it out of my car when I get home and I notice they cracked the hub shell when they trued it. I might be wrong, but I think I remember there being a problem with some of the hugi hub shells.

    The other thing is that the LBS moved and the mechanic I like to use moved to another shop during the move. The new mechanic isn't as good. He seems to do things the easy way when he knows better.

    Good example - I bring him a rear hub to build - I've had this shop build 5 singletrack rim wheels in the past few years - every single time they've used the retail (pinned and welded version), so I don't even bother to remind them again. He builds up the wheel with the crap OEM pinned only rim. The mechanic tells me he thought it was weird cause the price was different than what the rim normally cost but tells me its the only rim QBP sell - I call sun and they tell me QBP still sells the retail edition too - the mechanic was making sh*t up...

    I talk to the manager and the manager tell me to talk to the mechanic when he comes in. The mechanic tells me he sorry blah blah blah, more excuses and finally says he'll build/sell me the next rim for 10% over cost (which I don't think is that great but agree to it anyways).

    Next screwup - I call him up - I have some wheels for him to true. He say bring them in - I do. He trues them but half asses as these are big rims, big tires and he doesn't bother to take off or at least deflate the tires he bitches and whines while doing it cause its a big mtb rim and he's a roadie and hates big tires and 20mm adapters he has to use etc... He was nice enough though and only charges me for truing one rim cause the front isn't that off...

    Today - I bring in this wheel pictured (built by a different mechanic from the same shop - which I like much more than this guy). This time he says it would be good to true the wheel without the tire on and inflated - I say no problem - no big deal if you take it off... He's too lazy to take it off and trues it anyways. He notes that the other mechanic built the wheel almost to full lock on the nipples and its really tight. I get home and see the hub is cracked as I go to put it on my bike.

    To top it off, I came this afternoon from a job interview - in formal clothes etc - he charges me MORE than the normal wheel charge and this time he had less wheels to true...

    I called him about the cracking and all he said is that he can cut the hub out and send it to DT on Monday and I'll have to eat the true cost even though the wheel was never ridden and useless due to him truing it. DT will most likely not pay for a new rim (can't use this old one - not a good idea and the shop won't rebuild a used rim anyways) and my expensive Alpine III spokes - this wheel was probably good for at least a season more and now is toast due to this shops errors. What is reasonable to ask from the shop - what should I tell the manager?
     

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    #1 -   Sep 9, 2005

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  2. thaflyinfatman

    thaflyinfatman Turbo Monkey

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    Holy hell, they overdid it bad enough to crack the hub?! They should be eating ALL the costs involved in getting the wheel going again IMO (and to be fair, rebuild the old rim - refusing to rebuild one is freakin lame, a guy I know who is possibly THE best wheelbuilder in Australia is happy to do it). As far as the wheel true cost goes, well you might have to put up with that one, because regardless of other expenditures, you had agreed to pay for that. They should replace the hub, UNLACE the wheel (how freakin anal are these guys?!), then re-lace the old rim with the old spokes onto the new hub. That make sense? Had they trued your wheel for the price you paid and not stuffed up, that's what you would have ended up with, so it's fair to expect them to fix it to that point given that you have paid that much.

    Next question: why do you keep going back there? Screw putting up with crap like that! Get your wheel fixed (yes speak to the manager, by the sounds of it you're intelligent enough to be calm and reasonable about it) then go elsewhere.
     
  3. Wumpus

    Wumpus makes avatars better

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  4. sanjuro

    sanjuro Tube Smuggler

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    Hmm. I should point out that you do not need to remove the tire in order to true a wheel, but if the tire is too wide, you cannot get the guides next to the rim.

    However, doing it right it doing right. I would take the tire off and make sure I had the right adaptors for 20mm. I might also charge an extra $5-10 bucks if it took me 15-30 minutes to take off the tire.

    One problem with shop people is they have to act like they're the expert, even with people who know more then they do.

    I would have put the QBP catalog in front of you and let you pick out your own stuff. Even if I didn't have the Customer catalog (which does not have pricing), I would trust you that you could figure out that this is wholesale pricing.

    As for a hub break, I have not heard of DT having any problems, or any recommendations about spoke tension. Sh*t happens I suppose, but I would have DT take of it for you.
     
  5. syadasti

    syadasti i heart mac

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    I sent to to Dave at DT - He's going to take care of it - hopefully it gets there with enough time before Interbike. I sent it priority 2-day...

    If you see the thread linked above, there was an issue with these hubs. I inspected the hub further and found another crack at the flange too...

    15-30 minutes to take a tire off (I was telling him I would remove them if he wanted)? I could take the tire off, patch a flat and pump it back up with a hand pump on the trailside on a bike with a thru-axle system with 5 points to tighten in less time than that - who are you trying to rip off :p
     
  6. Repack

    Repack Turbo Monkey

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    I didn't bother to read the followups, but a shop should eat all of the cost. Its part of doing business. I'm saying this as a former 7-year mechanic. I can't believe that they would screw with you like that. They suck. And thats total BS about not being able to reuse a rim. Especially something as stiff as a DH rim that is going to be used with discr brakes. What will destroy the rim is them cutting out the hub. They sound like such hacks that they won't bother to detention it first. Hell, you can even reuse the spokes and nipples. What morons.
     
  7. Grizzle

    Grizzle Monkey

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    I have found that sometimes quality carries stuff that is not in their catalog, which doesn't make sense. They must think they get more traffic through their website. It could be that his QBP book actually didn't have the rim, but he could have been a lazy jerk as well. Just a perspective from the dude behind the counter.
     
  8. sanjuro

    sanjuro Tube Smuggler

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    Uh, ever try to put on a new wire bead 2.5 DH tire onto a XC rim? Give me a time check when you get it on the wheel...
     
  9. smedford

    smedford Monkey

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    Well, he actually said " He trues them but half asses as these are big rims, big tires and he doesn't bother to take off "
     
  10. Guntruck

    Guntruck Monkey

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    Damn thats pretty crazy. I'd have to say that it's a hub issue and not a lacing issue. I've laced alot of wheels and usually lace them about as tight as possible. I've managed to strip out lots of nipples but never cracked a hub. I've even laced up a few Hugi FR wheelsets and never had that problem!!
     
  11. sanjuro

    sanjuro Tube Smuggler

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    Tire size is all relative. I have a XC717/Mutanoraptor 2.4 Kelvar, D729/Timberwolf 2.5 DH wire, and a pair of D521/Kujo DH's. The Mutanoraptor was easy to install (2 minutes), the Timberwolf hard (10-20 min), and the Kujos in between (5-10 min).

    I don't charge extra if a flat fix takes 15 minutes because all the 5 minute changes paid for the extra 10 minutes. But dh tires are a pain to put on and off, and if takes 30-40 minutes, I will warn about the extra charge.
     
  12. Repack

    Repack Turbo Monkey

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    True, Their catalog is more like a tease. The website tells you availability etc. as well as current prices.
     
  13. caputo1989

    caputo1989 Turbo Monkey

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    Too many Tourists COLORADO the place being taken o
    I seen that before at my shop. Qowincidentialy (sp?????) my shop just moved.
     
  14. Bicyclist

    Bicyclist Turbo Monkey

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    Dude, that shop sucks ass. And people talking of 45 min. tire changes?!?
     
  15. ZachTheMech

    ZachTheMech Monkey

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    Dude i hope DT hooks you up, im sure they will, You need to find a new shop if the guys are gonna be like that. They dont even have to cut out the spokes, he coulda just loosend them and unlaced the whole thing. Time consuming yes, but the right thing to do, or better yet they should replace um for you at there expense. Most MTB wheels these days Freeride/DH anyway to properly true the wheel you need to take off the tire anyway, if there using a Park TS-2 the tire gets in the way. not sure what they charge, but we charge 8-15 bucks per wheel to true them. I love wheelbuilding so make sure its done right when we do it at our shop.
     
  16. syadasti

    syadasti i heart mac

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    DT replaced the hub and rebuilt the wheel for me - I got it back on Monday. They required proof of purchase for it (used my CC statement) otherwise they would have only done the hub swap I guess?

    DT is a great company and their products are generally top-notch. Too bad they had the defective shells, but glad they took care of it quickly (and they even pulled it off with Interbike right around the corner!)