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When Deer Hunters Attack

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
5 killed, 3 hurt in Wis. hunting dispute
AP | 22 Nov


This booking photo provided by the Sawyer County (Wis.) Sheriffs Department shows Chai Vang on Sunday, Nov. 21, 2004, at the Sawyer County Sheriffs Department in Hayward, Wis

BIRCHWOOD, WI (AP) -- A deer hunter killed five people and wounded three more in a dispute over a hunting platform on private property during the opening weekend of deer season, authorities said.

A 36-year-old man was arrested Sunday afternoon when he came out of the woods, sheriff's officials said.

Deputy Jake Hodgkinson identified the suspect as Chai Vang but would give no details. Vang is from St. Paul, Minn., said Paul Schnell, a spokesman for the St. Paul police department.

The shooting started when two hunters returning to their rural cabin on private land saw the suspect in one of their hunting platforms in a tree, Sawyer County Chief Deputy Tim Zeigle said. Hunters often build platforms in trees in order to be able to view prey and shoot from a high angle.

Both of those hunters were wounded and one of them radioed friends at the cabin a quarter-mile away. Other members of their group responded and they also were shot, he said.

"It's absolutely nuts. Why? Over sitting in a tree stand?" asked Zeigle.

Zeigle said the suspect was "chasing after them and killing them," with a SKS 7.62 mm semiautomatic rifle, a common hunting weapon. Wisconsin's statewide deer gun hunting season started Saturday and lasts for nine days.

About 20 shots were fired but it was unclear if any of the hunters had fired at the suspect or who might have shot first, Zeigle said. There was just one gun among the eight people killed or wounded, he said.

The dead included a a teenage boy and a woman, and a father and son, Zeigle said. Some of the victims were shot more than once. All five were from the Rice Lake area, about 15 miles southwest of Birchwood in the northwestern part of the state, he said.

Authorities found two bodies near each other and the others were scattered over 100 yards.

The suspect, who did not have a compass, got lost in the woods and two other hunters who didn't know about the shootings helped him find his way out, Zeigle said.

The man was arrested when he emerged from the woods and a Department of Natural Resources officer recognized the deer license on his back from a description given by one of the shooting victims, Zeigle said.

The man was out of ammunition, he said.

One of the injured hunters was in critical condition at St. Joseph's Hospital. Another was listed in serious condition and the third was in fair condition, both at Lakeview Medical Center.

Hunter Bill Wagner, 72, of Oshkosh, was about two miles away near Deer Lake with a party of about 20 other hunters when they heard sirens, planes and helicopters and discovered roads in the area had been barricaded.

"When you're hunting you don't expect somebody to try to shoot you and murder you," Wagner said. "You have no idea who is coming up to you."

"We're all old, dyed-in-wool hunters," he said. "We wouldn't go home because of this, but we will keep it in our minds. We're not forgetting it."
 

Lexx D

Dirty Dozen
Mar 8, 2004
1,480
0
NY
Chased down and shot 8 people(1 gun between all of them them), killed 5 of them...........Yeah I'd say whackjob sounds about right.
 

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
22,202
1,390
NC
Damn True said:
That seems to be the case dontcha think?
Yeah, I would suggest that the circumstances probably have no bearing on whether or not the guy is a whackjob.

Anyone who kills five guys who have one gun between them has some issues, even if there was more to the story...
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
Details about the shooter:

New details about Vang began to emerge Tuesday.

Military records obtained by The Associated Press show he spent six years in the California National Guard and earned a sharpshooter qualification badge. But his primary role during his time in the Guard, from 1989-95, involved clerical duties.

After his discharge, he spent two more years in the Individual Ready Reserve. His records also include a Good Conduct medal.
Accounts of shooting:

The man suspected of shooting six hunters to death and a survivor agree that the tragedy began with a confrontation on private land. But they sharply differ on what happened next.

Survivor Lauren Hesebeck told investigators Chai Vang, 36, of St. Paul, Minn., turned around after a verbal exchange and started shooting his rifle from 40 yards away.

But Vang told Sawyer County investigators he began firing only after one of Hesebeck's hunting buddies, Terry Willers, shot at him with a rifle from about 100 feet away and missed.

Vang, a Hmong immigrant from Laos, also claimed the hunters taunted him with racial slurs and warned him he would be reported to law enforcement for being on private land, according to a document filed Tuesday.

Hesebeck's version, contained in the same statement, makes no mention of that type of language or verbal hostility, other than saying Vang used profanity at one point.
 

BuddhaRoadkill

I suck at Tool
Feb 15, 2004
988
0
Chintimini Bog
Bummer, I was hoping this was a story about some rednecks getting their just deserts. Turns out this Vang fella is not only a sharpshooter [as stated above] but has some wife beating tendancies [predisposition to violence]... and is being investigated as a possible suspect in an earlier murder back in '02 as well.

Damnit!! I think it would have been much better if the story went:
"An attempt by cocky backwoods local boys to intimidate small statured asian immigrant backfires. Immigrant turns out to be a trained sharpshooter and opens can of whoopass, leaving 5 dead and 1 injured."

Normally I hate these tabloid crimes, but this one has my interest. If Vang really was shot at, why would he not shoot back? Where is the moral line here?
If a group of guys shoot at you and hurl verbal insults, isn't it justifiable self defense to get 'em before they get you - all of them? What would you do?
 

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
22,202
1,390
NC
BuddhaRoadkill said:
If a group of guys shoot at you and hurl verbal insults, isn't it justifiable self defense to get 'em before they get you - all of them? What would you do?
Um... There was one gun present. If a group of guys shot once at me, I'd sure as hell take a shot back over their heads, but this man slaughtered five people, only one of whom actually had a weapon. And he shot at and wounded three other people who were running away. Justifiable self defense? No way. If he thought his life was threatened, and had been shot at, justifiable self defense would have been to shoot the guy with the gun - preferably not actually killing him.

You think any one of those hunters would have dove for the gun of their fallen companion? Not a chance - they would have run like hell.
 

1000-Oaks

Monkey
May 8, 2003
778
0
Simi Valley, CA
My dad lives in Wisconsin and said an Asian guy killed a few hunters some years ago (other hunters saw an Asian male leaving the scene of the crime), but the cops never caught the killer or were able to determine who did it.

Wonder if it's the same psycho, maybe he figured he got away with it once...
 

1000-Oaks

Monkey
May 8, 2003
778
0
Simi Valley, CA
syadasti said:
Military records obtained by The Associated Press show he spent six years in the California National Guard and earned a sharpshooter qualification badge.
Any idiot can earn a sharpshooter qualification badge. If you suck but can pull a trigger you get "Marksman". If you're an average shot you get "Sharpshooter". If you're halfway good you get "Expert".

Comparing your typical "Expert" rifleman to a someone who has completed actual sniper school is like comparing a kid on a Big Wheel to a Formula 1 race car driver.

The DC Sniper was a hack too, anyone who hits the range on a regular basis could easily outshoot that guy. And what the heck was the DC Sniper thinking when he choose a Bushmaster M16? He would have been far more leathal with pretty much any bolt-action hunting rifle (more accurate and more powerful, so-called "assault-rifles" are usually low-power weapons), he was lucky he did as well as he did. As an ex-military guy, the M16 sure as heck wouldn't have been my choice.
 

Skookum

bikey's is cool
Jul 26, 2002
10,184
0
in a bear cave
1000-Oaks said:
Any idiot can earn a sharpshooter qualification badge. If you suck but can pull a trigger you get "Marksman". If you're an average shot you get "Sharpshooter". If you're halfway good you get "Expert".

Comparing your typical "Expert" rifleman to a someone who has completed actual sniper school is like comparing a kid on a Big Wheel to a Formula 1 race car driver.

The DC Sniper was a hack too, anyone who hits the range on a regular basis could easily outshoot that guy. And what the heck was the DC Sniper thinking when he choose a Bushmaster M16? He would have been far more leathal with pretty much any bolt-action hunting rifle (more accurate and more powerful, so-called "assault-rifles" are usually low-power weapons), he was lucky he did as well as he did. As an ex-military guy, the M16 sure as heck wouldn't have been my choice.
Along with your avatar your posts are beginning to scare me a little. :(

Little Bill said:
You be William Munny outta Missourah, killin wimmin an children.
 

Casey

Chimp
Nov 24, 2004
39
0
The SKS is cal. 7.62X39mm. It typically fires a 139 grain bullet at somewhere in the mid 2,000 fps range. Not a bad round, actually, and definitely superior to the 5.56mm .223 round of the M16. However, 1,000 Oaks is correct; "earning" the title Sharpshooter in the military is slightly more difficult than tying your shoes. It's not saying much.

As to your question, Buddha, no, it is absolutely, unquestionably NOT justifiable to "get 'em before they get you...all of them!" PERHAPS if one of them shot first, you'd be justified in returning fire. What is necessary to justify use of deadly force is a reasonable fear of imminent death or bodily harm, at least in the majority of jurisdictions. However, murder is not a suitable response to a racial slur!!! Gee whiz, man!

Now, as to your comments about rednecks getting their just desserts, I can only say that you need therapy. You're sick and that whole comment makes me ill.
 

llkoolkeg

Ranger LL
Sep 5, 2001
4,335
15
in da shed, mon, in da shed
Casey said:
The SKS is cal. 7.62X39mm. It typically fires a 139 grain bullet at somewhere in the mid 2,000 fps range. Not a bad round, actually, and definitely superior to the 5.56mm .223 round of the M16. However, 1,000 Oaks is correct; "earning" the title Sharpshooter in the military is slightly more difficult than tying your shoes. It's not saying much.

As to your question, Buddha, no, it is absolutely, unquestionably NOT justifiable to "get 'em before they get you...all of them!" PERHAPS if one of them shot first, you'd be justified in returning fire. What is necessary to justify use of deadly force is a reasonable fear of imminent death or bodily harm, at least in the majority of jurisdictions. However, murder is not a suitable response to a racial slur!!! Gee whiz, man!

Now, as to your comments about rednecks getting their just desserts, I can only say that you need therapy. You're sick and that whole comment makes me ill.
Take note, resident babblers of irrelevant bull$hit- this is how to make your first post. :thumb:
 

Casey

Chimp
Nov 24, 2004
39
0
Thank you very much. I try to be an example whenever possible, and to babble only relevant bull$hit.