[N8 v2.0]

When I say... "I am a Christian"
I'm not shouting "I'm clean livin."
I'm whispering "I was lost,"
Now I'm found and forgiven.

When I say..."I am a Christian"
I don't speak of this with pride.
I'm confessing that I stumble
and need CHRIST to be my guide.

When I say... "I am a Christian"
I'm not trying to be strong.
I'm professing that I'm weak
and need HIS strength to carry on.

When I say... "I am a Christian"
I'm not bragging of success.
I'm admitting I have failed
and need God to clean my mess.

When I say... "I am a Christian"
I'm not claiming to be perfect,
My flaws are far too visible
but, God believes I am worth it.

When I say... "I am a Christian"
I still feel the sting of pain,
I have my share of heartaches
So I call upon His name.

When I say... "I am a Christian"
I'm not holier than thou,
I'm just a simple sinner
who received God's good grace, somehow.

~Maya Angelou~

 

[Andyman_1970]

Well said.................N8 are you feeling ok posting something like that.......LOL

 

[Andyman_1970]

I'm not sure you're going to catch much that that bait.......LOL

 

[N8 v2.0]

Just a little gem my S. baptist pal (who prays for my soul weekly) sent me....

 

[Tenchiro]

Wow, she has low self esteem.

 

[Andyman_1970]

Just a little gem my S. baptist pal (who prays for my soul weekly) sent me....

Yeah I saw your deep sea fishing boat post.........before you deleted it.

 

[N8 v2.0]

Wow, she has low self esteem.

A common trait I should think....

 

[N8 v2.0]

Yeah I saw your deep sea fishing boat post.........before you deleted it.

Good. You were supposed to.

 

[Tenchiro]

A common trait I should think....

I dunno it just makes me feel sorry for the author, talk about a helpless mess who can't take responsibility for their own ife.

 

[fluff]

I dunno it just makes me feel sorry for the author, talk about a helpless mess who can't take responsibility for their own ife.

I don't like being responsible for ifes of any sort. Horrible messy things. Ugh.

 

[N8 v2.0]

I dunno it just makes me feel sorry for the author, talk about a helpless mess who can't take responsibility for their own ife.

'God's Will' or "Bush's fault"... either way its a lame excuse.

 

[Westy]

'God's Will' or "Bush's fault"... either way its a lame excuse.

Add Clintons fault up there and I will have to agree with you.

 

[H8R]

Maya Angelou is a stupid bitch.


Oh wait... that Maya Angelou.

Sorry. She's ok.

 

[fluff]

Maya Angelou is a stupid bitch.


Oh wait... that Maya Angelou.

Sorry. She's ok.

I thought Tomb Raider was rubbish.

 

[enkidu]

When I say... "I am a Christian"
I'm not shouting "I'm clean livin."
I'm whispering "I was lost,"
Now I'm found and forgiven.

When I say..."I am a Christian"
I don't speak of this with pride.
I'm confessing that I stumble
and need CHRIST to be my guide.

When I say... "I am a Christian"
I'm not trying to be strong.
I'm professing that I'm weak
and need HIS strength to carry on.

When I say... "I am a Christian"
I'm not bragging of success.
I'm admitting I have failed
and need God to clean my mess.

When I say... "I am a Christian"
I'm not claiming to be perfect,
My flaws are far too visible
but, God believes I am worth it.

When I say... "I am a Christian"
I still feel the sting of pain,
I have my share of heartaches
So I call upon His name.

When I say... "I am a Christian"
I'm not holier than thou,
I'm just a simple sinner
who received God's good grace, somehow.

~Maya Angelou~

How true. Not only as an individual, but also as a family, clan, nation and human species. In so many ways, we sin and falter again and again, but still are graced with His Love. . . i.e. even in the midst and after the unspeakably evil events something incredibly beautiful and creative happens . . throughout the history.

 

[Andyman_1970]

I dunno it just makes me feel sorry for the author, talk about a helpless mess who can't take responsibility for their own ife.

So admitting one's short comings renders one helpless and unable to take responsibility for oneself???

 

[kinghami3]

Well said N8 ...

For some odd reason this reminded me of a show I was watching the other day on DayStar (for sh*ts and giggles). They were trying to sell the actual "Armor of God," i.e. a real sword and shield. Somehow the well groomed host got onto the subject of drinking wine. Realizing that his 'sin' was laid out in the open he said, "Now, I want to make sure that you all understand that we only drink non-alcoholic wine."

This is just one of the examples of a misunderstanding of what Christianity is about. It's not about looking good, being holier than anyone else, or even having 'God moments'.

I dunno it just makes me feel sorry for the author, talk about a helpless mess who can't take responsibility for their own ife.

I guess Christianity just isn't for you then.

 

[Andyman_1970]

I guess Christianity just isn't for you then.

To be honest, what Christianity in the US (well protestant evangelical Christianity for the most part) has become, it isn't for me either. I know this may be semantics, but I would say "following Jesus just isn't for you....."

I'm not picking on you bro, I knew what you were trying to say.......

 

[Changleen]

So admitting one's short comings renders one helpless and unable to take responsibility for oneself???

Obviously not, but (I know it was just a song) she was basically saying she sucks at everything, not "I have a problem with drink" or something.

 

[Tenchiro]

I guess Christianity just isn't for you then.

Certainly not her brand of it.

I own my accomplishments as well as my mistakes.

 

[Tenchiro]

So admitting one's short comings renders one helpless and unable to take responsibility for oneself???

If you can't clean up your own mess or pick yourself up when you stumble, then you need to look into yourself and find out why.

I am a firm believer of sleeping in the bed you make and her form of christianity seems to embrace the opposite.

 

[Changleen]

Lack of personal responsibility is the new American way. (For a lot of people...)

 

[kinghami3]

To be honest, what Christianity in the US (well protestant evangelical Christianity for the most part) has become, it isn't for me either. I know this may be semantics, but I would say "following Jesus just isn't for you....."

I'm not picking on you bro, I knew what you were trying to say.......

Actually it was more of a vile form of deep sarcasm.

On a side note, as for modern evangelical protestantism not being for me, I have considered switching to Catholicism on multiple occasions. I'm going to have to put more research into Messianic Judaism and Orthodoxy too. I'm coming to the realization that I'm a purebred Scottish Presbyterian, and even somewhat of a Calvinist (lead by the HS rather than Scripture and all that).

 

[Silver]

Actually it was more of a vile form of deep sarcasm.

On a side note, as for modern evangelical protestantism not being for me, I have considered switching to Catholicism on multiple occasions. I'm going to have to put more research into Messianic Judaism and Orthodoxy too. I'm coming to the realization that I'm a purebred Scottish Presbyterian, and even somewhat of a Calvinist (lead by the HS rather than Scripture and all that).

God, I hate Calvinists...

 

[Reactor]

So admitting one's short comings renders one helpless and unable to take responsibility for oneself???

Unfortunately for a large segment of people this is true, they use it as an excuse for continuing their aberrant behavior instead of trying to correct their behavior and make amends for their mistakes.

In contrast during Kathina, monks (and some householders) actually hold the invitation ceremony. They invite other people to point out their flaws and misbehavior's, they aren't allowed to ignore, or to close off part of their life, it's all on the table. Afterwards they try to mend their behaviors and make amends for any harm they've caused.

 

[MudGrrl]

I think we should rename this the religion forum.

 

[MMike]

I think we should rename this the religion forum.

I prefer "Everyone is dumb but me, (and a small hanful of other people) forum"

 

[Old Man G Funk]

When I say... "I am a Christian"
I'm not shouting "I'm clean livin."
I'm whispering "I was lost,"
Now I'm found and forgiven.

When I say..."I am a Christian"
I don't speak of this with pride.
I'm confessing that I stumble
and need CHRIST to be my guide.

When I say... "I am a Christian"
I'm not trying to be strong.
I'm professing that I'm weak
and need HIS strength to carry on.

When I say... "I am a Christian"
I'm not bragging of success.
I'm admitting I have failed
and need God to clean my mess.

When I say... "I am a Christian"
I'm not claiming to be perfect,
My flaws are far too visible
but, God believes I am worth it.

When I say... "I am a Christian"
I still feel the sting of pain,
I have my share of heartaches
So I call upon His name.

When I say... "I am a Christian"
I'm not holier than thou,
I'm just a simple sinner
who received God's good grace, somehow.

~Maya Angelou~

Everyone should look at the third and fourth line of each stanza.

In the third line she talks about her shortcomings.

In the fourth she talks about the redeeming of those shortcomings.

Yet, notice how every single shortcoming is a statement about her, while each redemption must come from god (outside of her.) What she is doing here is placing all blame for everything bad about her on herself and attributing everything that is good to some other entity. Yes, that is the textbook case of low self esteem.

 

[enkidu]

I dunno it just makes me feel sorry for the author, talk about a helpless mess who can't take responsibility for their own ife.

I don't think the author is waddling in a helpless mess. She is energized in spite of the knowledge and acceptance of her own weakness and mistakes that she made. She took the responsibility to let the Goodness in her grow stronger, while being careful not to confuse her own superficial temporal desires and clouded will with what is truly Good. It takes a mature sober person to be able to listen to that deep gentle voice in the depth of one's soul.

 

[Old Man G Funk]

I don't think the author is waddling in a helpless mess. She is energized in spite of the knowledge and acceptance of her own weakness and mistakes that she made. She took the responsibility to let the Goodness in her grow stronger, while being careful not to confuse her own superficial temporal desires and clouded will with what is truly Good. It takes a mature sober person to be able to listen to that deep gentle voice in the depth of one's soul.

But, it's not necessarily mature to externalize that voice and create a separate entity so that the person can wallow in how bad they are and look to that external entity for comfort.

The author is basically saying that she sucks and that it's only through god that she is good. She has no means of being a good person except by allowing some outside force to basically force it on her (even through her acceptance.) It's a rather hateful and dim view of humanity.

 

[enkidu]

But, it's not necessarily mature to externalize that voice and create a separate entity so that the person can wallow in how bad they are and look to that external entity for comfort..

Not "externalizing" or "creating a separate entity", but rearranging one's own priorities and lifestyle to let the Goodness WITHIN oneself grow. To have "faith" in that Goodness and "hope" that we can transform ourselves and "charity" to act out of that Goodness on a daily basis. I see nothing "hateful or dim" about this transformed view and the way of life, Old Man GF.

 

[Old Man G Funk]

Not "externalizing" or "creating a separate entity", but rearranging one's own priorities and lifestyle to let the Goodness WITHIN oneself grow. To have "faith" in that Goodness and "hope" that we can transform ourselves and "charity" to act out of that Goodness on a daily basis. I see nothing "hateful or dim" about this transformed view and the way of life, Old Man GF.

So, enkidu, god is not an external entity?

 

[enkidu]

So, enkidu, god is not an external entity?

Here's an excerpt from Lorica (a prayer) of St. Patrick
. . . . . . . . . . . .

I arise today
Through the strength of heaven;
Light of the sun,
Splendor of fire,
Speed of lightning,
Swiftness of the wind,
Depth of the sea,
Stability of the earth,
Firmness of the rock.

I arise today
Through God's strength to pilot me;
God's might to uphold me,
God's wisdom to guide me,
God's eye to look before me,
God's ear to hear me,
God's word to speak for me,
God's hand to guard me,
God's way to lie before me,
God's shield to protect me,
God's hosts to save me
From snares of the devil,
From temptations of vices,
From every one who desires me ill,
Afar and anear,
Alone or in a mulitude.

. . . . . . . . . . . .

Christ with me, Christ before me, Christ behind me,
Christ in me, Christ beneath me, Christ above me,
Christ on my right, Christ on my left,
Christ when I lie down, Christ when I sit down,
Christ in the heart of every man who thinks of me,
Christ in the mouth of every man who speaks of me,
Christ in the eye that sees me,
Christ in the ear that hears me.
. . . . . . . . . . . .

(In other words, my understanding is that God is all around us and within us. . . and much more.)

 

[Andyman_1970]

I am a firm believer of sleeping in the bed you make and her form of christianity seems to embrace the opposite.

How so?

 

[Old Man G Funk]

Here's an excerpt from Lorica (a prayer) of St. Patrick.....
(In other words, my understanding is that God is all around us and within us. . . and much more.)

But, god is a separate entity, yes?
That prayer sounds a lot like the poem. God is responsible for all of those things, not the individual. I fail to see how you are advancing your argument here.

 

[fluff]

Here's an excerpt from Lorica (a prayer) of St. Patrick
. . . . . . . . . . . .

I arise today
Through the strength of heaven;
Light of the sun,
Splendor of fire,
Speed of lightning,
Swiftness of the wind,
Depth of the sea,
Stability of the earth,
Firmness of the rock.

I arise today
Through God's strength to pilot me;
God's might to uphold me,
God's wisdom to guide me,
God's eye to look before me,
God's ear to hear me,
God's word to speak for me,
God's hand to guard me,
God's way to lie before me,
God's shield to protect me,
God's hosts to save me
From snares of the devil,
From temptations of vices,
From every one who desires me ill,
Afar and anear,
Alone or in a mulitude.

. . . . . . . . . . . .

Christ with me, Christ before me, Christ behind me,
Christ in me, Christ beneath me, Christ above me,
Christ on my right, Christ on my left,
Christ when I lie down, Christ when I sit down,
Christ in the heart of every man who thinks of me,
Christ in the mouth of every man who speaks of me,
Christ in the eye that sees me,
Christ in the ear that hears me.
. . . . . . . . . . . .

(In other words, my understanding is that God is all around us and within us. . . and much more.)

So there really is no escape?

 

[Andyman_1970]

Actually it was more of a vile form of deep sarcasm.

Ah I gotcha……………..

On a side note, as for modern evangelical protestantism not being for me, I have considered switching to Catholicism on multiple occasions. I'm going to have to put more research into Messianic Judaism and Orthodoxy too. I'm coming to the realization that I'm a purebred Scottish Presbyterian, and even somewhat of a Calvinist (lead by the HS rather than Scripture and all that).

Messianic Judaism is a big step with the Torah observance and all, and while I’ve considered it at times, I’m not sure if that’s where I’m supposed to be. I’ve considered evangelical Anglicanism, NT Wright one of my favorite authors and theologians is an Anglican Bishop but is very evangelical in the lectures of his I’ve listened to.

You might try the book Generous Orthodoxy by Brian McLaren that might help you with where you think you belong.

I must admit I have a terrible bias against reformers such as Luther and Calvin, both were raving anti-Semites, not to mention that Luther totally misidentified what Second Temple Judaism was all about (with respect to salvation) which has lingered to this very day unfortunately.

 

[Tenchiro]

How so?

These lines would seem to indicate it; what she is saying is she is incapable on her own and only through god is she able to make it.

What she is saying is if she was a confident, capable person she would not need god.

When I say..."I am a Christian"
I don't speak of this with pride.
I'm confessing that I stumble
and need CHRIST to be my guide.

When I say... "I am a Christian"
I'm not trying to be strong.
I'm professing that I'm weak
and need HIS strength to carry on.

When I say... "I am a Christian"
I'm not bragging of success.
I'm admitting I have failed
and need God to clean my mess.

 

[enkidu]

So there really is no escape?

So you are asking me if there are ways to escape from the ultimate Goodness, Truth and Beauty? As long as the partial and the shadow of a little goodness, truth and beauty are around us, I can't see how we'll be totally severed with IT/HIM/HER or whatever.

If you kissed your wife goodnight last night, there you are, you've brought down a part of the infinite LOVE down to this world, breaching the 'escape route' so to speak.

 

[SK6]

nice.