[P.T.W]

Im not!!

My bike might leak oil out of the forks, and the shock might randomly explode, but it is sitting in my bike cave, not "waiting on parts" or waiting till the builder comes back to this planet from whatever one he was on during his latest P trip.lthumbsdown:

That may be true about you bike.....But what kind of drugs are you taking for your bung neck au

 

[Percy]

That may be true.....But what kind of drugs are you taking for your bung neck au

Doesnt start with "P" anyway!

And Im not sure smoking it would have the same effect.

 

[dowst]

I've been following this thread for a while and I can't believe the issue hasn't come to some sort of end. Totally ridiculous.

Best DH bike, my ass. Technology doesn't stand still. By the time these guys get their bikes (I'm sure they won't), do you really think it will be as much of a bike as it was when they payed for it? Regardless, it's hard for something to be "the best" if it doesn't exist.

Aaron obviously isn't worth the land he stands on.

 

[4speed]

To all who are involved with out standing bikes from Aaron Lloyd Franklin Lahar bikes.Lahar bikes has been struck off as a reg bussiness on 7 august 2007,and also has two other directors under lahar bikes aswell .Iam one of the people waiting for these bikes,and now dont hold much hope anymore,anless he is still going to finish the last few orders??But would advise no one to order anything from him.

 

[Damo]

But would advise no one to order anything from him.

Wow. Words of wisdom.

 

[Demomonkey]

To all who are involved with out standing bikes from Aaron Lloyd Franklin Lahar bikes.Lahar bikes has been struck off as a reg bussiness on 7 august 2007,and also has two other directors under lahar bikes aswell .Iam one of the people waiting for these bikes,and now dont hold much hope anymore,anless he is still going to finish the last few orders??But would advise no one to order anything from him.

For those of you who have bikes on order and have not received them, you can hold each Director personally liable. I suggest you all get together, hire a local (NZ) lawyer and get a claim in. If the company has folded the assets will be gone, however you can go for the personal assets of the directors.

http://www.companies.govt.nz/cms/banner_template/CNAME

Company Number 1809536
Company LAHAR DH BIKE LIMITED

 

[jeremyb]

That was the old Lahar when he had a business partner who was financing things but they had a falling out from what I've heard... I guess he's still trading as Lahar but not as a registered company??

 

[Transcend]

That was the old Lahar when he had a business partner who was financing things but they had a falling out from what I've heard... I guess he's still trading as Lahar but not as a registered company??

He's not "trading" as anything. He is taking people's money and running. A trade requires both parties to fulfill agreements of an exchange.

 

[konastab01]

so.....
Did anyone else hear anything.
I havent,but I was really expecting too...

 

[xy9ine]

so.....
Did anyone else hear anything.
I havent,but I was really expecting too...

what are you (cryptically) trying to say?

 

[4speed]

so.....
Did anyone else hear anything.
I havent,but I was really expecting too...

Aaron rang me lastweek to say my bike is ready,looks really awesome,putting the rest together today,aaron might be a slack ass,but the workmanship on the bikes is amazing looking forward to my first ride toady.

 

[fluider]

Aaron rang me lastweek to say my bike is ready,looks really awesome,putting the rest together today,aaron might be a slack ass,but the workmanship on the bikes is amazing looking forward to my first ride toady.

Post some pics then, looking for them ;-).

 

[MrPlow]

So who is still waiting?
Slackarse isn't the right term. Immoral slack b a s t a r d springs to mind. Is he refunding the $ value difference to his US customers? Lahar is doomed anyway I suppose, waste of some good molds there.

 

[bohorec]

Aaron rang me lastweek to say my bike is ready,looks really awesome,putting the rest together today,aaron might be a slack ass,but the workmanship on the bikes is amazing looking forward to my first ride toady.

So how does it ride? Is it worth 19 months of waiting?

 

[4speed]

So how does it ride? Is it worth 19 months of waiting?

Rides awesome,different feel to any of my old rigs,will put up a pic when i get a chance.

 

[Sandwich]

Did Ronson ever get his?

 

[konastab01]

what are you (cryptically) trying to say?

Nothing xy...

You know yourself that I love lahar as much as you.
4 speed I am glad you have you frame kit.

But as things stand I was before you in the q. And I ain't got a bike.
That does annoy me though. I am at 23 months

Workmanship and the quality of the bike don't come into it.
In person they are so nice it's unreal.

 

[General Lee]

So how does it ride? Is it worth 19 months of waiting?

probably a lot like buying a brand new 2006 frame in 2009. I'll hesitate to call it outdated, but it seems the rest of the bike industry has moved on in a new direction in that time.

of course if i waited 2 years for a frame i'd probably want to convince myself it's the mutt's nuts as well.

 

[konastab01]

Lee they are awesome. Even the old dhv m8 is still a brillant race frame.
I think you would be surprised.

 

[xy9ine]

imo, the bike is still cutting edge on a bunch of levels. ie, material utilization (some really trick carbon work going on, with proven strength & longterm durability), mass centralization & low unsprung weight (the swingarm / wheel assembly is the lightest out there), & gearbox utilization (proven longterm durability). the industry is still off the back on several levels. the geometry is about as radical as anything out there currently. so many neat details stuffed into that frame. i won't say it's the best in the universe for everyone (no one bike is obviously), but if it suits your style, it's an amazing go fast platform. granted, the lack of production make this kinda moot, but i think aaron has done great bit of work in advancing the state of the art, as it were. we need more free thinkers out there.

 

[dropmachine]

A ****ty KHS beats a non-tangible Lahar any day of the week.


Free thinkers are great, standard thinkers that produce are better.

 

[xy9ine]

A ****ty KHS beats a non-tangible Lahar any day of the week.


Free thinkers are great, standard thinkers that produce are better.

capitalist thoughts from a materialistic drone. embrace the idea, not the object, and you will be free! or something...

 

[dropmachine]

Cool. I got a mint idea that will revolutionize the biking industry. Gimme $3500 bucks, and in two years, I'll call you and tell you what it is.

 

[xy9ine]

Cool. I got a mint idea that will revolutionize the biking industry. Gimme $3500 bucks, and in two years, I'll call you and tell you what it is.

if it's got carbon &/or titanium, i'm in. will pm my account info.

 

[Old_Sckool]

Well, this will probably piss off the fan boys. But I just can't read another post about this AMAZING bike, without giving my 2 cents.

As a former owner of a Nicolai Nucleon. I have to say the Rohloff gearbox is hardly cutting edge. While a great idea in theory. I just didn't like it in real life. Its made for a rear wheel. Adapting it to a frame is really more Rube Goldberg, then cutting edge.

Frankly, it has WAY to many gears for a DH bike. Remember, although it is only 14 speed, that's the same amount of gearing available on a 27 speed, since the Rohloff does not have any redundent gearing overlap. You just plain don't need that many gear for DH. On a normal DH run, I use anywhere from 2-4 gears max. That's 10 left over folks.

Also you have a LOT of drive slack. If you think a 24pt engagement hub is bad, a frame mount Rohloff feels like about a 6 pt engagement.

While I'm on a roll. Am I the only one that thinks that frame looks like someone took a electric guitar and slapped a fork on the front, cranks and a couple wheels? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I hear all these people gushing about what a beautiful bike it is. But personally, I think its one of the ugliest bikes I've ever seen. Looks like something out of a Dr Seuss book.

The bike does have some cool features. But nothing that I can tell that would justify the statements from others who're saying "it will be worth the wait, it's so awesome!!!!) Sorry total BS.

Jeez, it's a linkage single pivot. Low unsprung weight or not, it's nothing ground breaking.


This whole thread reminds me of the story about the King with no clothes. Sorry, but NO bike is worth a 2 year wait, certainly not this one.

 

[Sandwich]

This whole thread reminds me of the story about the King with no clothes. Sorry, but NO bike is worth a 2 year wait, certainly not this one.

got to agree with you. Despite how amazing this bike was, and how awesome low unsprung weight sounds, I just don't buy that it's worth it. I do, however, think it's a worthy design and with some refining could be an extremely capable bike. I think it's a step in the right direction (internal gearbox) I think the process took two steps back.

 

[xy9ine]

(for my amusement i'll retain my lonely position as defender of the bike). i can't refute the ridiculousness of the current wait times; i'm frankly surprised he's still (apparently) building. thought he'd disappeared into the ether for good. no one currently in the cue put their $$ down with the knowledge that they'd have to wait this long. obviously no new orders have taken for a long time, so the 'is any bike worth waiting x amount of time' comment is moot.

re: scathing critique:

i'd have to say the rohloff is the most advanced bicycle transmission currently available for this application. it's not perfect, but makes much more sense than exposed to the weather dangly devices that drag chains laterally across a series of toothed cogs. the rohloff has a nearly unlimited lifespan & is ridiculously low maintenance. i've never had a drivetrain so maintenance free - ie, a full season (in crappy northwest conditions) of perfect shifting without a single adjustment. radness. i ride the thing on trails & occasionally uphill, so the full range gearbox is actually pretty handy. those who don't need the range can opt not to twist the shifter all the way. not detrimental imo. ideally i'd also like to see something like a lighter 7spd rohloff, but we've got to start somewhere.

before i got the bike i was also concerned with drivetrain slack (with two freewheels); in practice it's never been an issue, even on technical slower trails. guess if you're doing trials pedal kicks & sweet old school wheelie drops from a standstill, it wouldn't be optimum.

suspension stuff - these days, the number of pivots means nothing in itself. there's fantastic bikes of many configurations, and there's nothing really 'groundbreaking' about any one configuration generally speaking. the 'it's just a single pivot' arguments are silly.

aesthetics are of course totally subjective. i love the thing. granted, i think dr suessian design is pretty damn cool (i just finished reading green eggs & ham to my kid - classic!).

anyways... enough dorking about. it's a neat bike, but you can't buy one. rather futile equine flagellation i suppose. cheers & good luck to those still waiting.

 

[Old_Sckool]

re: scathing critique:

i'd have to say the rohloff is the most advanced bicycle transmission currently available for this application. it's not perfect, but makes much more sense than exposed to the weather dangly devices that drag chains laterally across a series of toothed cogs. the rohloff has a nearly unlimited lifespan & is ridiculously low maintenance. i've never had a drivetrain so maintenance free - ie, a full season (in crappy northwest conditions) of perfect shifting without a single adjustment. radness. i ride the thing on trails & occasionally uphill, so the full range gearbox is actually pretty handy. those who don't need the range can opt not to twist the shifter all the way. not detrimental imo. ideally i'd also like to see something like a lighter 7spd rohloff, but we've got to start somewhere.

before i got the bike i was also concerned with drivetrain slack (with two freewheels); in practice it's never been an issue, even on technical slower trails. guess if you're doing trials pedal kicks & sweet old school wheelie drops from a standstill, it wouldn't be optimum.

suspension stuff - these days, the number of pivots means nothing in itself. there's fantastic bikes of many configurations, and there's nothing really 'groundbreaking' about any one configuration generally speaking. the 'it's just a single pivot' arguments are silly.

aesthetics are of course totally subjective. i love the thing. granted, i think dr suessian design is pretty damn cool (i just finished reading green eggs & ham to my kid - classic!).

anyways... enough dorking about. it's a neat bike, but you can't buy one. rather futile equine flagellation i suppose. cheers & good luck to those still waiting.

Hmmmm?

Not sure I would regard my comments as "scathing". More of a reality check.

Maybe my comments about the aesthetics were somewhat scathing. Looks are of course, purely subjective. I can see how some would find its quirky looks appealing.

My comment about being a linkage single pivot wasn't meant as a knock. Hell, I have owned 2 Brooklyn Race Links and one is my current bike. I love 'em. My only point was, it isn't some super magical ride that "is so worth the wait, it rides AMAZING!!!!!!" Sorry, that's just silly justification.

As far as the Rohloff. To each his own. Remember I owned one 3 year ago. I wanted to like it more then anything. I was a notorious derailleur destroyer. Losing derailleurs cost me at least 2 races. While I admit, the slack drivetrain doesn't necessarily cause any real world problems, it just plain feels cheap and like something is wrong. My real reason for finally dumping it, was the enormous amount of gearing. Just impractical for DH. You have to bypass 4 to 6 gears to get the one you want. On a conventional setup, it would be like one or two at most. Bypassing all those gears, with a rotating shifter, while you are trying to pin it all the way, is a PITA. Also it probably adds 5lbs to the total weight.

Anyway. I wasn't really trying to bash the bike. It is cool. Just got sick of all the justification going on here, with so many sounding like it was some kind of magic carpet ride. I feel bad for all those being screwed over, especially if they finally get the bike and find out, Hell, its just a bike. I waited 2-3 years for this?

 

[StyledAirtime]

dont forget you have to back off all power to shift ,cant have any power down or the thing will grind and creek.

 

[General Lee]

Am I alone in thinking that the gearbox bike is going the way of the 24" wheel?

 

[Sandwich]

Am I alone in thinking that the gearbox bike is going the way of the 24" wheel?

You might be. The 24" wheel for DH was hindered in the fact that it was inferior in rolling ability and the increase in strength wasn't necessary as people stopped hucking xteen feet to flat.

The gearbox, on the other hand, is a great idea that has a lot of potential. The problem is that you've got hokey experimental designs like the lahar, gt, and nicolais, bad internally geared hubs that aren't designed for DH and either weigh a ton or break easily, and forced standard parts that limit design and are very cumbersome.

If Shimano or SRAM jumped on the bandwagon and made a decent gearbox, I think the benefits would be huge. If they made a decent IG hub, that would help too. If any of the manufacturers could get it right, I think they'd have a hit. Unfortunately, the lahar is the lahar, the GT had bad geometry, the Nicolais weigh a ton and are simply so german, and no other GB bikes have reached our shores yet.

I find it hard to believe that the *theory* of a gearbox bike done right wouldn't be a huge asset for DH racing or riders.

 

[General Lee]

You might be. The 24" wheel for DH was hindered in the fact that it was inferior in rolling ability and the increase in strength wasn't necessary as people stopped hucking xteen feet to flat.

The gearbox, on the other hand, is a great idea that has a lot of potential. The problem is that you've got hokey experimental designs like the lahar, gt, and nicolais, bad internally geared hubs that aren't designed for DH and either weigh a ton or break easily, and forced standard parts that limit design and are very cumbersome.

If Shimano or SRAM jumped on the bandwagon and made a decent gearbox, I think the benefits would be huge. If they made a decent IG hub, that would help too. If any of the manufacturers could get it right, I think they'd have a hit. Unfortunately, the lahar is the lahar, the GT had bad geometry, the Nicolais weigh a ton and are simply so german, and no other GB bikes have reached our shores yet.

I find it hard to believe that the *theory* of a gearbox bike done right wouldn't be a huge asset for DH racing or riders.

that is exactly where i disagree. to each his own i suppose, but i don't subscribe to the idea that the standard drive system can be improved on so substantially. and i certain;y don't buy the idea that they are as 'fragile' or maintenance intensive as some people claim. of all the components of my bike, and it's pretty much top-on-the-line everything, the drivetrain is possibly the most reliable and low-maintenance. sorry, but it takes about a minute or less every few runs in the mud to keep a drivetrain happy, modern derailleurs are pretty durable and could be made more so if weight wasn;t such a priority (think dh specific x0), shifting is incredibly precise, freewheel reponse is almost instantaneous. . . and i could go on. a proper gear box might offer shelter from the elements and lessen the chance of failure due to impact but i do not consider those to huge risks with modern components.
i've destroyed exactly zero derailleurs in the past 5 seasons, but i've bend almost a dozen brake rotors. maybe i'm missing something, but i just don;t hear people at the races or in liftlines at the bike park wishing they had gearbox bikes.

 

[demo 9]

gearbox brakes? am i onto something?

 

[Sandwich]

inboard brakes are a great idea but would be tough to implement. you'd have to compensate for slack in the chain, worry about chains snapping (no brakes) and strengthen all of the components to get it fixed.

As far as people clamoring for GB bikes, first off, they all have sucked so far, and second, nobody is going to worry about something that doesn't exist yet. Do you really think anybody said "i wish I had jet turbine engine" when they hadn't been designed yet? The only people who said that were the ones who created it, implemented it, and bettered the industry. My argument is that's the same case with gearbox bikes. They can be done right, they just aren't. Can you really say that having better mass centralization, faster shifting, and a zero maintenance drivetrain would be worse?

I agree that derailleurs are great, they work great, and they've been around for so long that people have it down to a science. Heck, half the existing GBs are derailleurs in a box. My argument is that getting that off the rear wheel, reducing its size, and tucking it away is a very good thing. Heck, if you've got less chain slapping around, you can run a shorter cage, and make it stronger without a weight penalty. Adding mechanical gears CAN be a good thing when the science is ready.

This is really an argument for another thread though....

 

[dump]

how about a picture of that lahar that recently got "delivered"

 

[no skid marks]

Oh God, enough Lahar bashing FFS, it's **** the bikes aren't all there yet, OBVIOUSLY, this thread has in no way helped, and Sandwich, your just an idiot, shut up. Everything you say, you then state why it's wrong at the end. You even commented a while back, that it's not helping and you shouldn't comment, so why don't you take your own advice, drag your little wooden high pony on wheels to the top of the nearest hill and f*** off.
For all the stupid arguments made of late.
You can shift a Rohloff while pedalling, even if it does grind, it is best to back off a touch as it's much more efficient. You do have to back off for longer with a deraileur.
The Rohloffs gearing I'm fairly sure is the most evenly spaced gearing there is.
Big deal if it has 14gears, hardly a handycap when the bikes still 40lb ish. Yes 5,6 or7 would be ideal, and there is a 7 being tested. and you can dump several gears in one hit any time anyway.
I'm not riding my Lahar at present, and the gearbox was definatly missed greatly going back to a mech.
Most DH races I see, someone comes down with a mech ripped off.
The Nexus hubs I think are working alright as internal gearboxs in the GTS, their weekness is their axles, the axles aren't under heavy load in the GT.
The Lahar is still up to date with current geo, it was that far ahead when it was made. I personally would rather shorter stays, but I don't ride as fast as the pros, and that's what the bike was buit for. The MK8 had shorter stays, and everyone prefered the longer Mk9. With the light rear and low centralized COG it does counter balance it a touch in tight corners.
Looks, pffft, see one in the flesh, they look rad, and who cares if they don't, I'm yet to pick up a chick because of how my DH bike looks, and I'm not gay, so frame looks don't bother me.
It is **** the frames aren't out, but the design really is still ahead of every other bike in lots and lots of ways.
Lightest rear end, good for riding and gret for suspension.
Integrated headset and BB with easy to get sealed bearings.
Gearbox with all the great bennefits from shifting to a zillion times less maintanence than anything else.
Low COG and centralized weight.
Cooling tunnel for shock.
Active when pedalling or braking.
Quiet.
For now, without a lighter Rohloff available, it's as good as it can be. I think a nexus can be made to fit if you only wanted 8 gears.
Please make sure your retorts are valid, and not just hollow chest beating bullsh1t like most of it has been, as I don't wish to encourage sh1t talk in this thread.
I am still doing all I can to help those waiting.

 

[General Lee]

Oh God, enough Lahar bashing FFS, it's **** the bikes aren't all there yet, OBVIOUSLY, this thread has in no way helped, and Sandwich, your just an idiot, shut up. Everything you say, you then state why it's wrong at the end. You even commented a while back, that it's not helping and you shouldn't comment, so why don't you take your own advice, drag your little wooden high pony on wheels to the top of the nearest hill and f*** off.
For all the stupid arguments made of late.
You can shift a Rohloff while pedalling, even if it does grind, it is best to back off a touch as it's much more efficient. You do have to back off for longer with a deraileur.
The Rohloffs gearing I'm fairly sure is the most evenly spaced gearing there is.
Big deal if it has 14gears, hardly a handycap when the bikes still 40lb ish. Yes 5,6 or7 would be ideal, and there is a 7 being tested. and you can dump several gears in one hit any time anyway.
I'm not riding my Lahar at present, and the gearbox was definatly missed greatly going back to a mech.
Most DH races I see, someone comes down with a mech ripped off.
The Nexus hubs I think are working alright as internal gearboxs in the GTS, their weekness is their axles, the axles aren't under heavy load in the GT.
The Lahar is still up to date with current geo, it was that far ahead when it was made. I personally would rather shorter stays, but I don't ride as fast as the pros, and that's what the bike was buit for. The MK8 had shorter stays, and everyone prefered the longer Mk9. With the light rear and low centralized COG it does counter balance it a touch in tight corners.
Looks, pffft, see one in the flesh, they look rad, and who cares if they don't, I'm yet to pick up a chick because of how my DH bike looks, and I'm not gay, so frame looks don't bother me.
It is **** the frames aren't out, but the design really is still ahead of every other bike in lots and lots of ways.
Lightest rear end, good for riding and gret for suspension.
Integrated headset and BB with easy to get sealed bearings.
Gearbox with all the great bennefits from shifting to a zillion times less maintanence than anything else.
Low COG and centralized weight.
Cooling tunnel for shock.
Active when pedalling or braking.
Quiet.
For now, without a lighter Rohloff available, it's as good as it can be. I think a nexus can be made to fit if you only wanted 8 gears.
Please make sure your retorts are valid, and not just hollow chest beating bullsh1t like most of it has been, as I don't wish to encourage sh1t talk in this thread.
I am still doing all I can to help those waiting.

are you an Avy owner too, because you sound like one?

and a cooling tunnel for the shock you say? well that just sealed the deal, where do i sign up to get one in time 2012.

 

[Sandwich]

I am still doing all I can to help those waiting.

by defending this retard to the death, you're helping? Really man, who's the idiot? I wondered when you would come back to say how great the bike is, how great aaron is, and how, in just a few days, everything will be peachy again.

This thread has turned into a discussion about gearbox bikes, which is why I started posting again. I'd happily move that into another thread, which is why I suggested it.

As for my commentary, I try to see both sides of the coin. I think derailleurs are an excellent way of shifting gears, but they can be made better by moving them inboards into a "container" which isn't exposed to the elements. I think mechanical gear like the rohloff internals have potential, but little is being achieved in the way of making one that's great for DH (like the G-boxx is) without being cumbersome and awkward to work with (like the G-boxx is).

What's so hard to understand about that?

 

[no skid marks]

by defending this retard to the death, you're helping? Really man, who's the idiot? I wondered when you would come back to say how great the bike is, how great aaron is, and how, in just a few days, everything will be peachy again.Don't put words into my mouth. I'm not defending any person, I've commented on comments about a bike that are WRONG. You are the idiot, but idiots can't see that. Talk facts, not theories that you've heard and twisted to suit your means.

This thread has turned into a discussion about gearbox bikes, which is why I started posting again. I'd happily move that into another thread, which is why I suggested it.

As for my commentary, I try to see both sides of the coin. I think derailleurs are an excellent way of shifting gears, but they can be made better by moving them inboards into a "container" which isn't exposed to the elements. I think mechanical gear like the rohloff internals have potential, but little is being achieved in the way of making one that's great for DH (like the G-boxx is) without being cumbersome and awkward to work with (like the G-boxx is).The Rohloff is lighter than a G-Box, having extra gears is hardly relivent or a curse if you're still lighter and can be used with more variety of designs.

What's so hard to understand about that?

Your still wrong, no matter how you try to package it to make yourself sound all polliticaly or technicly correct, you are wrong, have nothing to do with Lahar, have no experience with any gearbox bike, and are incorrectly regurgitating moot points for the sake of argument and pride.
You have taught me one thing though.
Never argue with an idiot, because they'll beat you down to their level ,and then beat you with experience.
I believe the Lahar is still the best bike available, unless the geo doesn't suit you.
Ride one, or STFU.
I'll have a go. 24" wheels get looser spokes because they are shorter and have less elasticity, so they have less give. 24" wheels were largely made from chunky rims, so......
Did I leave any doors open for a stupid debate there?
Must be something, go with the 24" wheel one, you'll be on a winner there.

 

[no skid marks]

are you an Avy owner too, because you sound like one?

and a cooling tunnel for the shock you say? well that just sealed the deal, where do i sign up to get one in 2012.

Pffft new someone would have to chime in on that(cheap shot).

Yeah I've owned an Avy and thought it was great.
The Lahar makes sense. The Lahar rides really well.
Don't be scared to step out side from the herd, there's good things to be found in thinking and experiencing for yourself.