[eater]

yesterday i ride hard at Verbier Bikepark and i happy now with the v10c this bike is now adjusted like i dreamed all the past...
no time for pictures it was so sick to ride there!

http://www.verbierbikepark.ch/

 

[norbar]

Probably because so much weight so high is more unstable (that zerode has a LOT of weight concentrated very high off the ground), hence more unstable like a lighter bike.

I thought we were past that ancient idea that frame weight distribution has any relevance to riding outside of the parts when you unweight your bike.

 

[Kntr]

Probably because so much weight so high is more unstable (that zerode has a LOT of weight concentrated very high off the ground), hence more unstable like a lighter bike.

When I say it feels lighter, I mean when jumping and cornering. The bike is super plush in the rough stuff and rolls over everything, even when I'm going slower than I should. I find myself sitting more, even when I'm following my friends who are standing. The bike is crazy smooth.

Have you had any time on one yet?

 

[Huck Banzai]

My V10c is amazing; it blows away most bikes Ive ridden by a lot, and the rest by a little less.

I rode a Zerode today. It was too small for me, and setup much firmer than I like.


I am definitely getting the Large ASAP.


Mind^%#$*# blown.

 

[Tomasz]

So you're saying the Zerode blows away the V10.4?

 

[demo 9]

So you're saying the Zerode blows away the V10.4?

& he was saying it with a **** eating grin! Zerode got the old dog pretty excited today


Edit, while we are on the weight subject.

just a hair under 44, no Ti springs.

 

[Tomasz]

That's awesome to hear. Like him, I much love my V10.4, and would be thrilled to find something which is even more awesome. Any chance on an in depth review comparing the two? Jumping, turns, rough stuff, etc?

And that thing is f*cking heavy!

I'm at 38lbs with boat anchor wheels, boat anchor cranks, and no Ti spring!

 

[demo 9]

That's awesome to hear. Like him, I much love my V10.4, and would be thrilled to find something which is even more awesome. Any chance on an in depth review comparing the two? Jumping, turns, rough stuff, etc?

And that thing is f*cking heavy!

I'm at 38lbs with boat anchor wheels, boat anchor cranks, and no Ti spring!

gunna have to get him to write that review, its "heavy" but it doesnt ride like it, he thought it felt lighter than his V10, which was about 40. I will try to pester him to get on here.

 

[Huck Banzai]

That's awesome to hear. Like him, I much love my V10.4, and would be thrilled to find something which is even more awesome. Any chance on an in depth review comparing the two? Jumping, turns, rough stuff, etc?

And that thing is f*cking heavy!

I'm at 38lbs with boat anchor wheels, boat anchor cranks, and no Ti spring!

My initial response could use a grain of salt; I am coming back off of an injury and hardly able to push a bike.

What I noticed:

My V10c is a lively and fun bike, however in this comparison, it is the plow bike. It is responsive, but can hold a line and run just about anything down with it without it being a pig or hard to handle at all. A very well behaved, confidence inspiring ride. Sometimes you have to muscle it to change lines.

The Zerode was able to erase the trail yet felt lighter than my v10 (despite being 4lbs heavier) and it could hold a line about as well as the V10, but also change lines or correct for error intuitively.

Part of the 'issue' was my V10 is so plush it takes your energy - and so I upped compression, and it helps - but at the same level of 'flickability' (or as close as I was able to get it in a days tweaking) the Zerode was easier on the rider.

Jumping: Im no jumper, and generally a pretty agressive rider, but jumps as well as open high speed stuff and hi speed berms are not my favorite. That said, from my perspective it feels like it needs a different technique to really pop it off of things, ti sort of wants to slow you down on lips and out of berms, but at the same time its more predictable so you can be more agressive in your attack of the big bumps; when in the air from a jump, drop, or berm to berm transfer, the bike goes exactly where you want it to, no trying to 'make' it happen.

Turns: Stuck, great traction and feel, easy to push into the ground, but even when plowing, can be picked up and put where you need it and it will stay calm and predictable. This bike does not feel long at all, even compressed.

Rough stuff: What rough stuff? (Same for V10)

Now get on a large as soon as they make them; the ride was great, despite being too short for me, another 1" or so in the cockpit and I can only imagine my next 'review'


I am 6'8" and quirky, especially about bikes, I rarely find something that fits to try properly, and my first response when checking out other peoples bikes is egotistical flaw finding (mines better this way, that way, la la laaa) - I was too busy enjoying myself and actually riding hard(ish for a gimp) and those thoughts never came. (Actually, I thought the brakes stunk, but I didnt seem to need them as much...)

Lateral discovery: My brakes are too strong; I need more modulations!

 

[Sandwich]

I am 6'8" and quirky

 

[UiUiUiUi]

did you try a small or the supposedly large zerode?

 

[JD Risk]

Last time I had the shock off my jedi, I cycled through the travel and seem to remember most of the rearward travel occurring towards the beginning of the wheel path. This was a while ago so I could be way off but it had me thinking. How much advantage can rearward travel offer if a good deal of it is taken up in sag?

I have zero complaints with my jedi and it does plow through rough stuff like nothing else, but I'm wondering how much of its plowability can be attributed to rearward travel.

 

[Sandwich]

Last time I had the shock off my jedi, I cycled through the travel and seem to remember most of the rearward travel occurring towards the beginning of the wheel path. This was a while ago so I could be way off but it had me thinking. How much advantage can rearward travel offer if a good deal of it is taken up in sag?

I have zero complaints with my jedi and it does plow through rough stuff like nothing else, but I'm wondering how much of its plowability can be attributed to rearward travel.

keep in mind that while the zerode may have rearward travel up to sag, it has near rearward up to vertical travel beyond that. The swingarm never really goes above the pivot. IE, you never get forward travel. Most bikes on the market, up until pretty recently, had pivots below the chainring or even just in line with it. Even most dual link bikes have some degree of forward travel. It's been my experience that those bikes ride harsher than comparable bikes with higher pivots.

So, tl;dr, very pivot bikes still have more rearward travel than most bikes on the market even after sag.

 

[demo 9]

Last time I had the shock off my jedi, I cycled through the travel and seem to remember most of the rearward travel occurring towards the beginning of the wheel path. This was a while ago so I could be way off but it had me thinking. How much advantage can rearward travel offer if a good deal of it is taken up in sag?

I have zero complaints with my jedi and it does plow through rough stuff like nothing else, but I'm wondering how much of its plowability can be attributed to rearward travel.

Comparing it to my jedi, i would say that the zerode has to have more after sag, and more in general. The feeling from a jedi to a zerode, was very similar to the feeling i had when i came off a demo to a jedi. (and i was happy as all hell on that decision)

-1 of the things i have always wanted to know is how much rearwards a zerode actually has, the jedi we know is 2.5, but if i had to compare it to a zerode, id say the zerodes got 5. (it obviously doesnt) That gives me the impression that its rearwards is more defined throughout the travel rather than right off the bat. (not that you dont use the "sag" travel on almost every bump you hit)

 

[norbar]

keep in mind that while the zerode may have rearward travel up to sag, it has near rearward up to vertical travel beyond that. The swingarm never really goes above the pivot. IE, you never get forward travel. Most bikes on the market, up until pretty recently, had pivots below the chainring or even just in line with it. Even most dual link bikes have some degree of forward travel. It's been my experience that those bikes ride harsher than comparable bikes with higher pivots.

So, tl;dr, very pivot bikes still have more rearward travel than most bikes on the market even after sag.

That's one thing that makes me wonder since in the very rough stuff you are almost always beyond sag so bikes that never go forward should excel in hairy situations. Could it explain Yeti's "speedtrap abilities"?

 

[saruti]

what about the ghost DH bike?
it has also a very high pivot. and it works like FSR... should be good. no?

 

[eater]

wich is the best HA setting for the v10c? how works the v10c with a angelset like 62.5° i rode it now with 64°.

 

[norbar]

what about the ghost DH bike?
it has also a very high pivot. and it works like FSR... should be good. no?

The pivot isn't zerode high but it should be good, what makes me wonder is CS length. 17.5'' on a very rearward bike may be overkill

 

[Mo(n)arch]

Already 445mm according to their homepage. That's huge!
That thing will need a lot of body english in the tights.

That's one thing that makes me wonder since in the very rough stuff you are almost always beyond sag so bikes that never go forward should excel in hairy situations. Could it explain Yeti's "speedtrap abilities"?

Really? I am not sure about that. At certain speeds you are going to hopp from one obstacle to another. So the suspension gets unweighted and re-weighted frequently. In this case the rearward travel before sag-point makes totally sense to me. And in the steeps your Sag point won't be at I'd say 33%, but on let's say 20%, right? SO you get some thing like a "bonus" in rearward travel.

Correct me if I'm wrong, I am just thinking out loud.

 

[norbar]

Already 445mm according to their homepage. That's huge!
That thing will need a lot of body english in the tights.



Really? I am not sure about that. At certain speeds you are going to hopp from one obstacle to another. So the suspension gets unweighted and re-weighted frequently. In this case the rearward travel before sag-point makes totally sense to me. And in the steeps your Sag point won't be at I'd say 33%, but on let's say 20%, right? SO you get some thing like a "bonus" in rearward travel.

Correct me if I'm wrong, I am just thinking out loud.

Yes you are weighted and unweighed but when you git a rock or a root on a weighted bike (and you will for considerable % of time) it will feel harsh since the travel goes forward. You can also just point and shoot easier if the bike never goes rearward all the time. The way I see it would tire you more since it would require less body english when instead of skipping you can plow.

As for steeps yes the sag will be lower but how many rockgardens and rough sections you've seen on the steeps?

 

[Mo(n)arch]

Well we have a few tracks with steep rockgardens.
I see you have some points right there. I did make that expirience often on my Session, although that thing has only forward travel...´I almost got bucked a few times when hitting certain lines in the rough or heard a ping from the rearwheel, due to the amount of force on the rearwheel.

Something to consider for plowing rock gardens is also the leverage ratio of the bike.
For example in the case of the Session88 vs. 9.9. They changed the leverage ratio a fair bit, but not the pivot point. According to dirtmag and other reviews the bike is now a much better plower than the old Sessions.

 

[eater]

is the zerode not a single point designs with bunch of chain and pulleys ?

 

[ianjenn]

is the zerode not a single point designs with bunch of chain and pulleys ?

2 chains, no pulley a gearbox instead. There is NO CHAIN GROWTH. Yes it is a single pivot.

 

[Owennn]

2 chains, no pulley a gearbox instead. There is NO CHAIN GROWTH. Yes it is a single pivot.

No chain growth? that's wrong and would pedal badly.

It does have chain growth. Just about every bike does.

 

[norbar]

No chain growth? that's wrong and would pedal badly.

It does have chain growth. Just about every bike does.

Nope and nope.

 

[ianjenn]

No chain growth? that's wrong and would pedal badly.

It does have chain growth. Just about every bike does.

It literally has very little growth....I'll quote RC on it I don't do that often. The chain going from box to rear sprocket may move but it is much smaller than others....

"Ride a high-pivot swingarm DH or AM bike like the Orange and you'll discover that the rearward axle path and strike angle that the configuration produces dominates over the rocks and roots. Unfortunately, chain-torque issues caused by the conventional chain-line of a derailleur bike defeat any advantages of the high-pivot suspension design. Chain growth is a huge negative factor with conventional high-pivot design - to the point that most bike makers have long abandoned the concept. Zerode, however, has taken a different, more successful tack on the matter. By placing a gearbox high in the frame, aligned with the swingarm's pivot, the Zerode G-1 circumvents the chain-growth problem entirely. In fact, the Zerode gearbox design only requires a minimal chain take-up device on the rear and a single guide mounted near the upper side of the gearbox drive sprocket to manage a whopping, 9.25 inches of travel."

 

[Owennn]

Nope and nope.

Yes and yes. 10 - 14mm of growth on a Zerode depending on where the Alfine is adjusted to vertically.

Your Banshee Legend - about 30mm or so at the end of its travel.

Never said it is a bad thing, just that it is there. The only bikes that don't have growth are concentrics like the old school Rotec, BMW's, Pace prototype etc.

It literally has no growth....I'll quote RC on it I don't do that often. The chain going from box to rear sprocket may move but it is TINY....

"Ride a high-pivot swingarm DH or AM bike like the Orange and you'll discover that the rearward axle path and strike angle that the configuration produces dominates over the rocks and roots. Unfortunately, chain-torque issues caused by the conventional chain-line of a derailleur bike defeat any advantages of the high-pivot suspension design. Chain growth is a huge negative factor with conventional high-pivot design - to the point that most bike makers have long abandoned the concept. Zerode, however, has taken a different, more successful tack on the matter. By placing a gearbox high in the frame, aligned with the swingarm's pivot, the Zerode G-1 circumvents the chain-growth problem entirely. In fact, the Zerode gearbox design only requires a minimal chain take-up device on the rear and a single guide mounted near the upper side of the gearbox drive sprocket to manage a whopping, 9.25 inches of travel."

Your quote is correct, it isn't a problem. But it is there.

 

[no skid marks]

Yes and yes. 10 - 14mm of growth on a Zerode depending on where the Alfine is adjusted to vertically.

Your Banshee Legend - about 30mm or so at the end of its travel.

Never said it is a bad thing, just that it is there. The only bikes that don't have growth are concentrics like the old school Rotec, BMW's, Pace prototype etc.



Your quote is correct, it isn't a problem. But it is there.

If you want to get into minute detail, then all of the bikes you listed also have chain growth depending on what gear they're in on the rear.
1 cm of chain growth spread over 9.25" of super plush square edge eating travel still makes them probably the smoothest bikes at the pedal. A touch of chain induced anti squat aids the Zerodes great pedaling ability.

 

[Owennn]

1 cm of chain growth spread over 9.25" of super plush square edge eating travel still makes them probably the smoothest bikes at the pedal. A touch of chain induced anti squat aids the Zerodes great pedaling ability.

Yes I know, I take mine on XC rides. Bit heavy and probably should get some lighter tyres but alot of fun.

 

[Udi]

No, I think Owen means there is no suspension travel induced chain growth (which by most people's definition would be what chain growth is, really). So concentrics don't have any.

For whatever it's worth, Owen is right on all counts IMO.

 

[no skid marks]

No, I think Owen means there is no suspension travel induced chain growth (which by most people's definition would be what chain growth is, really). So concentrics don't have any.

For whatever it's worth, Owen is right on all counts IMO.

I thought that(for the sake of argument like pointing out 1cm of chain growth)that a concentric pivot with different sized sprockets front and back would get chain growth. I think smaller front than back(rare occurrence, but for arguments sake). Is that incorrect?
From memory the Zerodes chain growth is mainly before sag point anyway.
Can anyone with a concentric pivot bike put it in granny gear on front and back, and sit on it and see if cranks backpedal at all please.
Pretty sure if you had somone standing on the end of a seesaw holding a rope above their head, with the other end tied to the seesaw pivot, and they went up on seesaw(swingarm), the rope(chain) would get tighter as they stay upright (same as non moving cassette).

 

[Owennn]

I thought that(for the sake of argument like pointing out 1cm of chain growth)that a concentric pivot with different sized sprockets front and back would get chain growth. I think smaller front than back(rare occurrence, but for arguments sake). Is that incorrect?

Yes. Concentric is concentric, no growth no matter what. It is also why concentric bikes pedal badly.

From memory the Zerodes chain growth is mainly before sag point anyway.

About half up to sag, other half in the rest of the travel.

Growth is good wherever in the travel you expect to be pedalling. I remember DW saying a few years ago it is surprising where people pedal in relation to the wheel in its travel though.

And I wasn't trying to be argumentative, just correcting something that was wrong.

 

[ianjenn]

Growth is good wherever in the travel you expect to be pedalling. I remember DW saying a few years ago it is surprising where people pedal in relation to the wheel in its travel though.

And I wasn't trying to be argumentative, just correcting something that was wrong.

Okay thanks for clarifying. Here is a video to show just how fast.... I mean slow those gearbox bikes make you go!

 

[Kntr]

Great video. Manuals just fine.

Such a great bike. I just want an AM Carbon version now.

 

[norbar]

Yes and yes. 10 - 14mm of growth on a Zerode depending on where the Alfine is adjusted to vertically.

Your Banshee Legend - about 30mm or so at the end of its travel.

Never said it is a bad thing, just that it is there. The only bikes that don't have growth are concentrics like the old school Rotec, BMW's, Pace prototype etc.



Your quote is correct, it isn't a problem. But it is there.

Well my second nope was to your claim that zero to minimal chain growth = bad pedalling so you can't say you "never said it's a bad thing" and start your post by disagreeing with it.

Second lets not nitpick. Im there with Udi over what you've seen in Linkage

 

[no skid marks]

I wish to keep nit picking. On a concentric setup, with a larger sprocket at one end. The larger sprocket will pull more chain as more chain will be needed to roll onto it as the suspension uses it's travel. In most cases, as the only time you'd notice is with a say 38 front, and say an 11 rear, this would make the concentric squat when pedalling even on a Brooklyn with a high pivot and pretty good pedaling characteristics.
Sorry for the derail, just dislike being called wrong by a nitpicker when I'm not.

 

[eater]

i 178cm have ride today a zerode M/L bike from the mechanic man how support greg minnaar... a friend have buy this frame.... this frame is on parking lot super heavy but than on the freeride trail in crans montana, it surfs the berms like nothing else i now.. brake bumps i do not notice... man that bike rails... and i think the hole morning my v10c is the best... the only thing i notice is the wight when you keep the frame from left to right on the track "short corners"
there where no click clack on the frame... sick rig!!!!

 

[ianjenn]

i 178cm have ride today a zerode M/L bike from the mechanic man how support greg minnaar... a friend have buy this frame.... this frame is on parking lot super heavy but than on the freeride trail in crans montana, it surfs the berms like nothing else i now.. brake bumps i do not notice... man that bike rails... and i think the hole morning my v10c is the best... the only thing i notice is the wight when you keep the frame from left to right on the track "short corners"
there where no click clack on the frame... sick rig!!!!

Yeah Minnar's mechanic is on it. He has been giving a lot of input into the bikes. It is for sure something that needs to be ridden to be understood. They have some tweaks coming for the next version that will be good. Glad to hear you liked it.

 

[eater]

and mine is inn next weekend "Woohuuuuuuu" i ride it yesterday with my 5ten flat shoes on a cb click pedal...
friend tell me you are just with this combo faster than before--- think now when i ride my amp pedal ...

 

[UncleHowie]

and mine is inn next weekend "Woohuuuuuuu" i ride it yesterday with my 5ten flat shoes on a cb click pedal...
friend tell me you are just with this combo faster than before--- think now when i ride my amp pedal ...

Did you order it from the guys from the guys from zerodeeurope.com ? Because i'm from switzerland too and i'm thinking about buying one over the winter. You ordered the M/L size ? I'm on a medium M9 at the moment, I think I also need the bigger frame.