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demo 9

Turbo Monkey
Jan 31, 2007
5,911
45
north jersey
first off sorry about the pinkbike post but i dont know much

i blew out my manipoo for the 5th time and i am guna just replace it at this point

the bike is a demo 9 from 2005.

canecreek double barrel is NOT an option.

i was thinking about the DHX air but it is expensive and i heard it rides well but will blow out really easy.

the 5.0 is the cheapest and although i dont like it on my other bike it gets thejob done.

now comes marzocchi, there is the roco world cup and the roco TST r
what is the TST r and what does it do, also anybody with opinions please list them because i dont know much about this type of thing.


*i am 160 pounds with gear
*its a racing DH bike setup and thats what i am going to use it for
*the front is rocking a fox 40
 

jonKranked

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Nov 10, 2005
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i'd say the dhx 5.0. would probably feel better paired with your fork.

that being said, you'd be fine with either option.
 

bikenweed

Turbo Monkey
Oct 21, 2004
2,435
0
Los Osos
Would that new Rock Shox Vivid be a viable option? They're cheap, and SRAM (besides Tony, apparantly) has a pretty good warranty department. Plus Chicago is closer than CA if you need to send things back for some work.

Buying stuff hot off the press has never gone well for me, but it is another option.
 

Damo

Short One Marshmallow
Sep 7, 2006
4,604
20
French Alps
i'd say the dhx 5.0. would probably feel better paired with your fork.

I'm not taking the piss here, but can you really 'match' a rear shock to a set of forks?

Surely the bike's suspension design has more input than brand-name matching...?

Or does a fox/fox or marzocchi/marzocchi setup feel more balanced?
 

Poindexter

Chimp
Dec 25, 2007
48
0
The Roco TSTR and World cup are'nt that much different from each other, just more adjustments on the world cup.
 

William42

fork ways
Jul 31, 2007
3,706
342
I'm not taking the piss here, but can you really 'match' a rear shock to a set of forks?

Surely the bike's suspension design has more input than brand-name matching...? ?
totally true.

anyway, i got a tst r on my glory 0 and i'm not a fan. pretty much the only feature i like is the tst, (which is similar to fox's propedal but it doesn't have so much of a stiff platform feel), but as far as how the shock feels up, its just never felt smooth across all the travel. it either packs slightly to much, or it bottoms out to easy. i'm running about 30% sag because the bike feels like crap if i run less, i have rebound super fast because otherwise i have no midstroke support and it packs up on harder or consecutive hits if i run to bottom out with enough pressure to actually prevent me from bottoming out 60 times a ride, and if i dont, well then i bottom out all the time. been playing around with the settings for a while now, run their recommended settings, tweaked, etc, and its just never felt right. I will probably be getting a vivid if i start hearing good reviews of them. Otherwise a DHX
 

Poindexter

Chimp
Dec 25, 2007
48
0
totally true.

anyway, i got a tst r on my glory 0 and i'm not a fan. pretty much the only feature i like is the tst, (which is similar to fox's propedal but it doesn't have so much of a stiff platform feel), but as far as how the shock feels up, its just never felt smooth across all the travel. it either packs slightly to much, or it bottoms out to easy. i'm running about 30% sag because the bike feels like crap if i run less, i have rebound super fast because otherwise i have no midstroke support and it packs up on harder or consecutive hits if i run to bottom out with enough pressure to actually prevent me from bottoming out 60 times a ride, and if i dont, well then i bottom out all the time. been playing around with the settings for a while now, run their recommended settings, tweaked, etc, and its just never felt right. I will probably be getting a vivid if i start hearing good reviews of them. Otherwise a DHX
WOW, exactly what I'm experiencing it seems like it just blows right thru the stroke and the rebound is for ****. I thought I was goofy.
 

jonKranked

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Nov 10, 2005
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WOW, exactly what I'm experiencing it seems like it just blows right thru the stroke and the rebound is for ****. I thought I was goofy.
how long have you been riding the shock? have you changed the oil yet? this is crucial to performance on these shocks. its recommended after every 50 hours of riding. another critical thing i've discovered is re-setting the piston for the air chamber to the proper depth, otherwise everything feels all fvcked up like you're describing.
 

Poindexter

Chimp
Dec 25, 2007
48
0
how long have you been riding the shock? have you changed the oil yet? this is crucial to performance on these shocks. its recommended after every 50 hours of riding. another critical thing i've discovered is re-setting the piston for the air chamber to the proper depth, otherwise everything feels all fvcked up like you're describing.
ITS been ridden twice once at snowshoe and once at wisp. But what do you mean by re-setting the piston for the air chamber to the proper depth, is this something that I can do and do I have to take the shock completely apart.
 

jonKranked

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Nov 10, 2005
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ITS been ridden twice once at snowshoe and once at wisp. But what do you mean by re-setting the piston for the air chamber to the proper depth, is this something that I can do and do I have to take the shock completely apart.
yea you have to take the schraeder valve out of the reservoir to access the air chamber piston. its something you do during the bleeding process. there's a floating piston with a bleed valve on it that separates the hydraulic part of the shock from the air chamber. this is how you adjust your BOR, and also affects when the shock ramps up.

are you running it with enough air pressure? my world cup needs at least 180 psi or it doesn't work properly.


if you've only ridden it twice, maybe it needs some oil (the common marzocchi problem; i had to do this to my world cup when i got it).

what weight spring are you using? are you sure its not oversprung for your weight?
 

Poindexter

Chimp
Dec 25, 2007
48
0
yea you have to take the schraeder valve out of the reservoir to access the air chamber piston. its something you do during the bleeding process. there's a floating piston with a bleed valve on it that separates the hydraulic part of the shock from the air chamber. this is how you adjust your BOR, and also affects when the shock ramps up.

are you running it with enough air pressure? my world cup needs at least 180 psi or it doesn't work properly.


if you've only ridden it twice, maybe it needs some oil (the common marzocchi problem; i had to do this to my world cup when i got it).

what weight spring are you using? are you sure its not oversprung for your weight?
I know for sure its not oversprung, I'm running about 125 psi in the shock but I don't have a world cup I have the tst r, should of got the wc I don't care about the platform, How many cc of oil are you running. I really appreciate the help thank you.
 

SK6

Turbo Monkey
Jul 10, 2001
7,596
0
Shut up and ride...
God, I hate to sound like a duschebag BUT, if you search the DH forums, you will get a sh!tload of information. You'll even find a link to a site with a spring weight calculator.....
 

jonKranked

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Nov 10, 2005
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I know for sure its not oversprung, I'm running about 125 psi in the shock but I don't have a world cup I have the tst r, should of got the wc I don't care about the platform, How many cc of oil are you running. I really appreciate the help thank you.
ok there's the problem. I checked the spec's on marzocci's website, the TST R needs 180 psi in the air chamber as well. bump it up to that and let me know how it feels.


for cc's of oil, it depends on where you set your floating piston in the reservoir. i never measure because when i change oil I do it in a full submersion bath (takes a lot more oil than you need [it can be re-used if you're careful], which is pricey - I have a gallon of Redline superlight - ran me about $70) , its the easiest way to ensure that you don't get any air in the shock when you bleed it.
 

Poindexter

Chimp
Dec 25, 2007
48
0
ok there's the problem. I checked the spec's on marzocci's website, the TST R needs 180 psi in the air chamber as well. bump it up to that and let me know how it feels.


for cc's of oil, it depends on where you set your floating piston in the reservoir. i never measure because when i change oil I do it in a full submersion bath (takes a lot more oil than you need [it can be re-used if you're careful], which is pricey - I have a gallon of Redline superlight - ran me about $70) , its the easiest way to ensure that you don't get any air in the shock when you bleed it.
Sweet, mind if I pm you on some more info. I like full submersion.
 

demo 9

Turbo Monkey
Jan 31, 2007
5,911
45
north jersey
im still riding the 303 but i am not going to throw the demo 9 away because of a blown shock. so i am not guna get a roco TST and DHX air

its a roco world cup or DHX 5 and preferences
 

bushrider

Monkey
Jul 4, 2006
147
0
NYC
Simple solution here.
No one has ever blown an Avalanche.
I have the same bike (05 Demo9) with an Avalanche DHS and its totally rips.
Everyone who sits on my demo says the same thing, this bike is so freakin plush.

The Avalanche Montie shock costs $399 about the same as a DHX or Roco and is about 1000X more durable.

http://www.avalanchedownhillracing.com/monotube.html

I would also check your bearings.
On a demo end of the shock runs without shock eyelet bushings and instead rotates on a bearing. If this bearing has seized it may be causing the shocks to fail prematurely.
 

dhkid

Turbo Monkey
Mar 10, 2005
3,359
0
Malaysia
how did your shox blow up?

i would go with the dhx because it has a much bigger adjustment range then the roco. i say that because i have already re shimmed a couple of rocos to suit different bike from its stock settings. with a dhx you dont have to open it up.
 

jonKranked

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Nov 10, 2005
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how did your shox blow up?

i would go with the dhx because it has a much bigger adjustment range then the roco. i say that because i have already re shimmed a couple of rocos to suit different bike from its stock settings. with a dhx you dont have to open it up.
in regards to shimming the roco, what changes to the shim orientation brings about what results? this is one thing i haven't touched in my roco and i've been curious to try it. would like to get some insight as to what effects to expect based on the changes.
 

dhkid

Turbo Monkey
Mar 10, 2005
3,359
0
Malaysia
umm, the most simple way i can put it is more shims=more damping. big shims at the bottom of the stack affect low speed damping and smaller shims at the top of the stack effect high speed damping. also another thing is to watch out is the thickness of the stack, thinner will give less damping.

try and think of it as a leaf spring on a car. otherwise just do some reading on the net, there is loads of info.

one thing you might want to do before you changed anything is note the orientation of the stock shims stacks so if you mess up you can always go back to that setting. also try to change one thing at a time otherwise you wont know what change does what.

otherwise, have fun and post back your findings. :thumb:
 

jonKranked

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Nov 10, 2005
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umm, the most simple way i can put it is more shims=more damping. big shims at the bottom of the stack affect low speed damping and smaller shims at the top of the stack effect high speed damping. also another thing is to watch out is the thickness of the stack, thinner will give less damping.

try and think of it as a leaf spring on a car. otherwise just do some reading on the net, there is loads of info.

one thing you might want to do before you changed anything is note the orientation of the stock shims stacks so if you mess up you can always go back to that setting. also try to change one thing at a time otherwise you wont know what change does what.

otherwise, have fun and post back your findings. :thumb:
cool beans thanks for the heads up. its more of a rule of thumb when it comes to the shim stack eh?
 

demo 9

Turbo Monkey
Jan 31, 2007
5,911
45
north jersey
well the shock is kinda odd, it blows out but wont spill and oil i just loose all dampin and it recoils like a jackhammer, what do u guys think about DHX air
 

dhkid

Turbo Monkey
Mar 10, 2005
3,359
0
Malaysia
thats the control valve not operating properly. most of the time its just because the air pressure is too low. what kinda pressures do you run and what was actually done to fix it 5 times? otherwise the control valve is stuck down.

pelo, i remember going through this thread when i was started off. cant remember whats it about anymore, but hopefully you learn something from it. http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=159472&highlight=shim

jon, unless you have a nice shiny dyno you will never know precisely what is going on. one thing that i did when i started is try one extreme then go to another, that way you will get a good feel of whats does what. makes for a good laugh too. i shimmed my shox to have no low speed compression at all. took the bit hits well, absorbed every tiny bump and was butter, but come high speed sections it would sit so low in its travel is was horrendous.
 

Poindexter

Chimp
Dec 25, 2007
48
0
umm, the most simple way i can put it is more shims=more damping. big shims at the bottom of the stack affect low speed damping and smaller shims at the top of the stack effect high speed damping. also another thing is to watch out is the thickness of the stack, thinner will give less damping.

try and think of it as a leaf spring on a car. otherwise just do some reading on the net, there is loads of info.

one thing you might want to do before you changed anything is note the orientation of the stock shims stacks so if you mess up you can always go back to that setting. also try to change one thing at a time otherwise you wont know what change does what.

otherwise, have fun and post back your findings. :thumb:
Damn dhkid you really are a Turbo Monkey. Quick ? when you said you don't have to open up the DHX for I assume shimming does that mean the fox does'nt have a shim stack?
 

jonKranked

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Nov 10, 2005
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Damn dhkid you really are a Turbo Monkey. Quick ? when you said you don't have to open up the DHX for I assume shimming does that mean the fox does'nt have a shim stack?
the shim stack he is referring to is for the roco. IIRC all dampers have a shim stack. i just wouldn't open up a DHX. not to mention it voids the warranty.

the roco was designed to be user serviceable, and there are exploded diagrams floating around the internet too.
 

dhkid

Turbo Monkey
Mar 10, 2005
3,359
0
Malaysia
Damn dhkid you really are a Turbo Monkey. Quick ? when you said you don't have to open up the DHX for I assume shimming does that mean the fox does'nt have a shim stack?
i work from a computer, i get distracted easy. :)

the dhx has a shim stack and a variation of the control valve. this makes it both speed sensitive and position sensitive. this makes the dhx very adjustable from the external adjustments.

the roco on the other hard has kinda weird tuning range, the rebound adjuster doesn't make much difference till the last few clicks. and for the bike i re shimmed the roco, it had way too much compression. the compression adjuster does work well, but it is a compression adjuster more then just a low speed adjuster.



jon- the dhx is as easy to work on as any other shox. yea it voids the warranty, but it's only for a year anyway.
 

jonKranked

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Nov 10, 2005
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somewhere....
somewhere out there,
you have just made a marketing guys day. :)
as a designer, marketing is the bane of my (work) existence :disgust1:


but yea, you're right. at least there's no "planned obsolescence" when it comes to shocks. that i'm aware of that is.