[sanjuro]

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/06/29/business/AP-US-SupremeCourt-Fire.html?_r=1&hp

Justices Rule for White Firefighters in Bias Case

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Supreme Court ruled Monday that white firefighters in New Haven, Conn., were unfairly denied promotions because of their race, reversing a decision that high court nominee Sonia Sotomayor endorsed as an appeals court judge.

New Haven was wrong to scrap a promotion exam because no African-Americans and only two Hispanic firefighters were likely to be made lieutenants or captains based on the results, the court said Monday in a 5-4 decision. The city said that it had acted to avoid a lawsuit from minorities.

One thing I never fully understood is how standardized tests are biased against minorities, since Asians are well-known to ace these kinds of tests.

Supposedly, there are several questions on the exam which might be biased, so I am going to read the text of the decision to see how biased these questions were.

 

[jonKranked]

The only kind of question that could be biased on a written test for a firefighter would be something like this:

"In a burning building, you spot a collapsed white woman and a collapsed <insert minority here>. You can only save one. Which one do you choose to save, and why?"

 

[jimmydean]

Black guys know better than to run INTO a burning building.

 

[BurlyShirley]

This type of racial discrimination infuriates me, so Im happy with the ruling.

Though I fundamentally disagree with AA as it is practiced now, Im willing to live with race being a consideration for a certain amount of entry level hires in any industry, not because I necessarily believe diversity is good in the workplace, but because it does help some folks out and really doesn't affect me.

But anyway, after you're already in the work force... Im sorry but the playing field is then effectively leveled. People are making the same salary, working the same hours and reaping all the same benefits. The best qualified workers should be promoted, particularly in fields like firefighting where human lives are at stake.

 

[jonKranked]

This type of racial discrimination infuriates me, so Im happy with the ruling.

I agree. Its fundamentally the same thing as the whole "no child left behind" thing. When you set the bar low enough, everyone is a winner.

 

[dante]

Except you *can* design a test to weed out your undesirable elements without being specifically racist / misogynist. In particular, the Supreme Court ruled that height/weight requirements for prison guards discriminated unfairly against women (although they ruled that the prison system could just bar women from serving in male prisons). So if a municipality came up with a test that could weed out the particular group that they wanted excluded (there was a *spelling* portion of the firefighters exam in question??), it would still have been illegal under previous court rulings since it had the outcome of being racially selective (only white firefighters passed, black firefighters didn't). The Supreme Court had ruled previously that the test in question didn't have to have the intention of being racist, only that the *outcome* was racially selective. In the case linked to above, the outcome was that women were excluded or faced additional hurdles to become prison guards while men weren't. So even though it wasn't specifically exclusionary, the result was what mattered.

This recent ruling is pretty notable since it somewhat overturns the previous ruling by adding a "you have to be worried that you'll get sued by the minorities in question" notion which is a little bizarre. But still, this is just another right-wing opinion that is overturning established precedent and legislating from the bench. Wonder where all the criticism is from the righties about this ruling?

 

[dhmike]

This type of racial discrimination infuriates me, so Im happy with the ruling.

 

[manimal]

So if a municipality came up with a test that could weed out the particular group that they wanted excluded (there was a *spelling* portion of the firefighters exam in question??), it would still have been illegal under previous court rulings since it had the outcome of being racially selective (only white firefighters passed, black firefighters didn't).

isn't this veiled racism at it's core? not the exam but the assumption by the court that minorities would be less capable of taking a standardized test than their white counterparts?
The test would be discriminatory if it required knowledge outside of the job description. a spelling test would be entirely necessary as firefighters complete reports. however, if the test included a question about NASCAR trivia then that would be out of line.

 

[stgil888]

The test would be discriminatory if it required knowledge outside of the job description. a spelling test would be entirely necessary as firefighters complete reports. however, if the test included a question about NASCAR trivia then that would be out of line.

Agreed. Previous to this ruling, most of this controversy seemed to be to be related to the fear of being sued either way this went. Let's say the test were changed so that all the black applicants were promoted. What happens if, in ten years, white and black applicants are being promoted but Norwegian-Hawaiian transgenders are not passing? Just a fictional example, but the knowledge and skills pertinent to firefighting can't be changed to modify the outcome of the exam.

I'm taller than average and would benefit it if automobile manufacturers were required to build cars that fit me comfortably, but that would not make sense. Let the manufacturers build the cars they want to build, and I'll buy the one that works best for me if I can. All these types of issues can turn into slippery slopes, so I'm going to stay out of this.

 

[X3pilot]

You can trust the government.

Ask any Indian.

 

[Westy]

White people always win.

 

[chicodude]

white people always win.

ftmfwpw

 

[DaveW]

ftmfwpw

Stop mumbling, I can't understand a word of that???

Take the ball gag out of your mouth and say it again would ya.