[ghostrider]

I've figured out the problem. The country is split about 50-50 between liberals and conservatives (see the last election). Democracy doesn't work so well when the country is divided like this - you end up with 49% of the population that doesn't support the president. Luckily, I have a solution:

Split the country in two: 'US East' and 'US West'. Put the dems in the west and the conservatives in the east. Everybody would be happy. Only problem is, I give it less than two years before the US East starts bombing our asses here in CA.

 

[ghostrider]

Originally posted by Silver
All Bush has shown me is that I will never ever vote for a fundamentalist Christian ever, for any position, even if it's fvcking kindergarten class president. Now, before you think I'm bashing Christians, sure, I am. I also won't vote for a fundamentalist Muslim, or a fundamentalist Jew either. I don't like it when politicians get to appeal to their imaginary friend for justification for thier actions.

I can't vote yet though, not a citizen.

You said it dude. If you run in 2004, you gots my vote.

 

[Sideways]

Originally posted by LordOpie
Do you really believe the war was about oil for the USA?

If so, go check past threads here to educate yourself.

How about you do some research?

Project for the New American Century
Check out he names at the bottom, research their background and tell me what you find.

 

[LordOpie]

Originally posted by Sideways
How about you do some research?

Project for the New American Century
Check out he names at the bottom, research their economic background and tell me what you find.

yeah, i read that... like a year ago. And if you had checked any of the threads here, you'd have seen I kept asking people to visit that site.

So many of them have economic ties, big deal. But you're focusing on one tiny piece of the big picture. That site stresses expanding the American Empire and positioning ourselves throughout the world for our expansion and protection of our way of life.

I'm surprised you glossed over all that and went for the tiny emotional piece being oil

Also, lesser known and far more terrifying is the idea that they're furthering their religious agenda. From what I understand of thier religous beliefs, the state of Israel must occupy Jerusalem for Jesus to return. Since Iraq consistently had no problems dropping SCUDs on Israel whenever there was a conflict and since the USA had a "reason" to invade Iraq, that was a no-brainer for this Administration... eliminate one threat to Israel while expanding the Empire.

 

[Sideways]

Yeah, its not just oil...its religion and defense spending as well...
For those who don't care to research on their own:

Elliott Abrams, a former Reagan-era Assistant Secretary of State for Inter-American Affairs. During the Iran/Contra scandal, Abrams pleaded guilty to two misdemeanor counts of lying to Congress but was later pardoned by the first Bush administration. He subsequently became president of the Ethics in Public Policy Center. He is currently a member of Bush's National Security Council.

Gary Bauer, a Republican presidential candidate in 2000, who currently is president of an organization named American Values.

William J. Bennett, who served during the Reagan and first Bush administrations as U.S. Secretary of Education and Drug Czar. Upon leaving government office, Bennett became a "distinguished fellow" at the conservative Heritage Foundation, co-founded Empower America, and established himself as a self-proclaimed expert on morality with his authorship of The Book of Virtues.

Jeb Bush, the son of former President George Herbert Walker Bush and brother of current President George W. Bush. At the time of PNAC's founding, Jeb Bush was a candidate for the Florida governor's seat, a position which he currently holds.

Dick Cheney, the former White House Chief of Staff to Gerald R. Ford, six-term Congressman, and Secretary of Defense to the first President Bush, was serving as president of the oil-services giant Halliburton Company at the time of PNAC's founding. He subsequently became U.S. vice president under George W. Bush.

Eliot A. Cohen, a professor of strategic studies at John Hopkins University

Paula Dobriansky, vice president and director of the Washington office of the Council on Foreign Relations. Currently Dobriansky serves in the Bush administration as Undersecretary of State for Global Affairs.

Steve Forbes, publisher, billionaire, and Republican presidential candidate in 1996 and 2000. Forbes has also campaigned actively on behalf of the "flat tax," which would reduce the federal tax burden for wealthy individuals like himself.

Aaron Friedberg, professor of politics and international affairs; Director, Center of International Studies; Director, Research Program in International Security, Woodrow Wilson School, Princeton University.

Francis Fukuyama, author of The End of History and the Last Man; Dean of the Faculty and Bernard L. Schwartz Professor of International Political Economy at the Paul H. Nitze School of Advanced International Studies (SAIS) at Johns Hopkins University.

Frank Gaffney - conservative columnist; founder and president of the Center for Security Policy in Washington, D.C. Web-site: http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/

Fred C. Ikle, "distinguished scholar" at the Center for Strategic and International Studies

Donald Kagan, professor of history and classics at Yale University and the author of books including While America Sleeps: Self-Delusion, Military Weakness, and the Threat to Peace Today; A Twilight Struggle: American Power and Nicaragua, 1977-1990"; and The Origins of War and the Preservation of Peace.'' Kagan is also a senior associate at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, a contributing editor at the Weekly Standard and a Washington Post columnist, a member of the Council on Foreign Relations and the Alexander Hamilton fellow in American diplomatic history at American University. Past experience includes: Deputy for Policy in the State Department's Bureau of Inter-American Affairs (1985-1988); State Department's Policy Planning Staff member (1984-1985); speechwriter to Secretary of State George P. Shultz (1984-1985); foreign policy advisor to Congressman Jack Kemp (1983); Special Assistant to the Deputy Director of the United States Information Agency (1983); Assistant Editor at the Public Interest (1981).

Zalmay Khalilzad, an Afghan-American who was the only Muslim among the group's original signatories and the only signatory who was not a native-born U.S. citizen. Khalilzad has became the Bush administration's special envoy to Afganistan after the fall of the Taliban as well as is special envoy to the Iraqi opposition to Saddam Hussein. Khalilzad has written about information warfare, and in 1996 (in pre-Taliban days), he served as a consultant to the oil company Unocal Corporation (UNOCAL) regarding a "risk analysis" for its proposed pipeline project through Afghanistan and Pakistan.

William Kristol, PNAC's chairman, is also editor of the Weekly Standard, a Washington-based political magazine. His past involvements have included: lead of the Project for the Republican Future, chief of staff to Vice President J. Danforth
Quayle, chief of staff to Secretary of Education William J. Bennett under the Reagan administration, taught politics at the University of Pennsylvania and Harvard's Kennedy School of Government.
I. Lewis Libby, who later became chief of staff for Vice President
Dick Cheney.

Norman Podhoretz, a senior fellow at the Hudson Institute and author of works such as Patriotism and its Enemies.

J. Danforth Quayle, former vice president under President George Herbert Walker Bush and a presidential candidate himself in 1996.

Peter W. Rodman, who served in the State Department and the National Security Council under Presidents Ronald Reagan and George Herbert Walker Bush, became the current Bush administration's Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security affairs in 2001.

Stephen P. Rosen, Beton Michael Kaneb Professor of National Security and Military Affairs at Harvard University.

Henry S. Rowen was president of the RAND Corporation from 1967-1972. He served under former presidents Reagan and Bush as chairman of the National Intelligence Council (1981-83) and Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security Affairs (1989-91). He currently holds the title of "senior fellow" at the Hoover Institute

Donald H. Rumsfeld served former President Gerald R. Ford as chief of transition after Richard M. Nixon's resignation, later becoming Ford's chief of staff and secretary of defense from 1973-75. He subsequently served from 1990-93 as CEO of General Instrument Corporation and later as Chairman of the Board of Gilead Sciences, a pharmaceutical company. In 1998 he served as chairman of the bi-partisan US Ballistic Missile Threat Commission. Under President George W. Bush, he once again assumed the post of Secretary of Defense.

Vin Weber, a former Republican congressman from Minnesota, is now a well-connected lobbyist who has represented such firms as AT&T, Lockheed Martin and Microsoft. Veber is also vice chairman of Empower America and a former fellow of the Progress and Freedom Foundation.

George Weigel, a Roman Catholic religious and political commentator, is a "senior fellow" at the Ethics and Public Policy Center.

Paul Dean Wolfowitz, formerly Dean and Professor of International Relations at the Paul H. Nitze School of Advanced International Studies at Johns Hopkins University, became Undersecretary of Defense for President George W. Bush in 2001.

 

[LordOpie]

Originally posted by Sideways
Yeah, its not just oil...its religion and defense spending as well...

ah, so you agree with me that oil is way down the agenda for most of these people. Cool.

 

[partsbara]

opie and sideways, your both wrong

the war was about the liberation of iraq

I R A Q I F R E E D O M



'not about oil', try telling that to the remainded of the world... it s as obvious as the nose on ya face...

sideways - 1
lord opie - 0

partsbara (the official scorekeeper and freedom toast eater)

 

[Sideways]

WhatHuh?

Not quite getting what was just said in the previous two posts...sorry if the rolly eyes didn't communicate....

My take on it:
Afganistan was entirely about oil.
Iraq is half oil, half religion. They've got oil and are within striking range of Isreal.
The Bush administration has its intrests in oil, religion, and war....lotsa big money in war...check where daddy's got major economic holdings!

I'm not sure what was said above.
LordOpie: no, oil is a big concern...its the basic economic funding for everything else on their agenda.
Parts: I really didn't catch that....I sincerly hope you don't beleive the conservative right actually gives a hoot about downtrodden, disenfranchised, underprivledged individuals!
Freedom = glitering generality.

 

[partsbara]

Originally posted by Sideways
WhatHuh?

Not quite getting what was just said in the previous two posts...sorry if the rolly eyes didn't communicate....

My take on it:
Afganistan was entirely about oil.
Iraq is half oil, half religion. They've got oil and are within striking range of Isreal.
The Bush administration has its intrests in oil, religion, and war....lotsa big money in war...check where daddy's got major economic holdings!

I'm not sure what was said above.
LordOpie: no, oil is a big concern...its the basic economic funding for everything else on their agenda.
Parts: I really didn't catch that....I sincerly hope you don't beleive the conservative right actually gives a hoot about downtrodden, disenfranchised, underprivledged individuals!
Freedom = glitering generality.

understood mate... large portion sarcasm

parts

 

[TCoop924]

I'm with you Sideways. Even with all the dispute about what the war was "really" about, it seems painfully obvious that Iraqi "freedom" was not a top priority. Hell, I'm not even sure it ever was a concern really. Probably just some White House Aide telling Bush that the American people probably wouldn't go along w/ a war if it was for oil and religion...."Uh, ok...yeah, let's free the Iraqi's. That's what the war will be about...oh yeah...and terrorism." Sorry for the excessive sarcasm, but W. pisses me off.

 

[partsbara]

Originally posted by TCoop924
I'm with you Sideways. Even with all the dispute about what the war was "really" about, it seems painfully obvious that Iraqi "freedom" was not a top priority. Hell, I'm not even sure it ever was a concern really. Probably just some White House Aide telling Bush that the American people probably wouldn't go along w/ a war if it was for oil and religion...."Uh, ok...yeah, let's free the Iraqi's. That's what the war will be about...oh yeah...and terrorism." Sorry for the excessive sarcasm, but W. pisses me off.

exactly

it really isn t that hard to see is it ?... 'iraqi freedom' what a joke - biggest PR stunt ever

parts

 

[RockTumbler]

moi

 

[shocktower]

Originally posted by Silver
All Bush has shown me is that I will never ever vote for a fundamentalist Christian ever, for any position, even if it's fvcking kindergarten class president. Now, before you think I'm bashing Christians, sure, I am. I also won't vote for a fundamentalist Muslim, or a fundamentalist Jew either. I don't like it when politicians get to appeal to their imaginary friend for justification for thier actions.

I can't vote yet though, not a citizen.

In a MTB bro way ,I just can`t believe in any thing thats not hear and now or ever ,btw ,if I win the lotto today ,I will open my own church of fornication ,and that`s all we`ll do ,and of course help sick kid`s

 

[Certified Drunk]

How did this turn from; who did you vote for to war for oil? that another debate all toghter!

NOT GET YOUR DEBATES MIXED UP! this should have been a poll!
Who want's some Bush?
Gore?
Tree hugger?
Liberal?
Who eles was on the ballet? SORRY, I forgot

Dont blame Bush for the way things are today, Clinton started the down turn. Sh1t started to go down in early 1999 as Monica was going down on Bill.

enough said!

 

[shocktower]

If georgie has his way there will be no more fricking trees to hug ,welcome to the real world

 

[shocktower]

If georgie has his way there will be no more fricking trees to hug ,welcome to the real world