[LordOpie]

Going back to the movie itself...

Meanwhile, it was reported that Gibson has apparently cut a scene from the film that many Jewish leaders found offensive.

According to a close associate, Gibson has excised the passage in which the Jewish high priest Caiaphas demands Jesus' crucifixion and says, "His blood be on us and on our children."

"It didn't work in the focus screenings," the associate was quoted Wednesday in the online Drudge Report.
link

Which is more acceptable to you... that Gibson appeased Jews or he changed it because of a focus group.

...
This is very interesting because one of the common defenses of things in the film which might appear "antisemitic" has been that the film is merely depicting what is found in the gospels - nothing more, nothing less. That is a completely falsehood, of course, but that hasn't stopped anyone from using it. Now we hear that Gibson will deliberately excise something from the film that obviously and unquestionably occurs in one of the gospel accounts of Jesus' crucifixion. Now, it will be even more plain that his movie isn't simply a visual depiction of the events in the gospels; rather, it's a depiction of some of the events in the Gospels - the events that Mel Gibson wants to depict, based upon social, political, religious, and artistic considerations.

Any decision of what to include or exclude - not to mention of how all of the gaps in detail will be filled in - is an interpretative act. What we are getting is Mel Gibson's interpretation of the story of Jesus crucifixion. Unfortunately, as has always been the case with Passion Plays, people will get the idea that they are seeing it "as it was" - the raw, real story unencumbered without anyone's personal interpretation or personal agenda.

That's a serious problem because Mel Gibson's personal beliefs can become fused with people's perceptions of reality - art becomes reality, in a sense. People forget that what they have seen is a series of scenes pasted together - scenes that have been chosen over other scenes and other ways of depicting what occurred or what is believed to have occurred. Things are left out. Things are left in. Things are invented in order to make a transition from one scene to another. This is a movie, not reality.

But how many viewers will consciously realize that ...
link

 

[Evel Monkey]

What the hell?? This whole time I thought the Terminator movies were actually about a real android who time travels . I say if people make life decisions based on this, or any other movie, they can follow the rest of the lemmings.

 

[Evel Monkey]

I should add: It's ok to get inspiration (religious, mental, physical, etc.) from a movie, just go and find out things for yourself afterwards and make decisions based on your own effort.

 

[CRUM]

I would say that anyone who takes most anything they read view or hear literally may deserve the delusions they base their life on. As Evel Monkey states in the follow up post, inspiration is what we should be getting from artistic renditions, not literal truth. We need to filter the influx of sensations and information to come up with the truth that fits our lives. Some folks are comfortable taking things literally, i.e., the Bible, the Constitution, speed limits, etc. While others look at these as nothing but good suggestions.

 

[BurlyShirley]

I think its kind of retarded to take any sort of information from another person, book, bible, movie as literal truth...as its only perspective you're seeing, not actual fact. Even if the movie went line for line with the book it was based on...the book was still only written by a man, and hence, not absolute fact. Did Mel Gibson come out and say "This is the exact story of what happened to Christ" ? If not, then why complain about what he cuts and doesnt cut. Its a movie, not a historically correct documentary...as if there ever were such a thing.

 

[LordOpie]

yes, but many churches around the US are using this as an evangelical tool. Some churches are buying out entire theaters for their churches. In those some of those cases, a discussion probably takes place afterwards, which is a good thing, but there are lots of sheep who will see the movie and believe it exactly frame for frame.

So while you few are spouting off about how stupid it is to believe everything you see and hear, well, good for you, but there's lots of people who do believe it.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Originally posted by LordOpie
yes, but many churches around the US are using this as an evangelical tool. Some churches are buying out entire theaters for their churches. In those some of those cases, a discussion probably takes place afterwards, which is a good thing, but there are lots of sheep who will see the movie and believe it exactly frame for frame.

So while you few are spouting off about how stupid it is to believe everything you see and hear, well, good for you, but there's lots of people who do believe it.

Yes, and churches also sponsor guys who say they can "heal" people with their bare hands, while at the same time taking donations on T.V. and believe it frame for frame. About the only discussion that goes on afterward, much like after this movie will be something like "Praise the lord" countered by "Amen Brother" and Jesus will still be dead and the collection plate might be a little heavier for the next few sundays.
When 'The Fast and the Furious' came out, it wasnt an exact depiction of what racing ricers was all about...but Im sure every ricer you see on the street went to watch it, and while some parts were not even beleivable, it likely still prompted some people to build ricers of their own and other already-ricers to be amped up about ricing. Big deal.
I guess my point is that its just a movie, and the type of people who will take such things as gospel are zealots and there's not much your or I can do in the way of changing that line of thinking anyway. Its like a vegan rally or something. When they all sit around and yell about how much meat sucks, mostly they're just convincing themselves more and more to stick to that lifestyle...it doesnt much affect the rest of us.

 

[ummbikes]

Originally posted by BurlySurly

I guess my point is that its just a movie, and the type of people who will take such things as gospel are zealots and there's not much your or I can do in the way of changing that line of thinking anyway.

Good point.

 

[LordOpie]

Originally posted by ummbikes
Good point.

Gonna disagree...

(what a surprise, eh?)

Originally posted by BurlySurly
...it doesnt much affect the rest of us.

you really believe that? What about the teenage ricers who went out, street raced, and killed a family of four. That used to happen 2-3x a year in S.FL when I was growing up. Or the small children who died attempting to roll under a garage door after watching Indiana Jones. Or what about those vegans who join PETA or another group and then we discuss how CBS won't show PETA ads. Everything builds on everything else. Granted, much of this is just "darwinism"... the weeding out of the stupid, but there's a fair amount that is reasonable to the point of having a discussion like this.

Shouldn't we hold film makers, TV evangelists, politicians, whomever for blantant disregards accountable for their actions? And no, I don't think Indiana Jones or 2Fast should be held accountable, those were the only (weak?) examples I came up with.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Originally posted by LordOpie
Gonna disagree...

(what a surprise, eh?)


you really believe that? What about the teenage ricers who went out, street raced, and killed a family of four. That used to happen 2-3x a year in S.FL when I was growing up. Or the small children who died attempting to roll under a garage door after watching Indiana Jones. Or what about those vegans who join PETA or another group and then we discuss how CBS won't show PETA ads. Everything builds on everything else. Granted, much of this is just "darwinism"... the weeding out of the stupid, but there's a fair amount that is reasonable to the point of having a discussion like this.

Shouldn't we hold film makers, TV evangelists, politicians, whomever for blantant disregards accountable for their actions? And no, I don't think Indiana Jones or 2Fast should be held accountable, those were the only (weak?) examples I came up with.

What is your worry with this film Opie, out of curiosity...because it seems like the parts they'd need to be held accountable for were edited out so as not to lead to events like those just described. I thought we were arguing whether or not this film should be taken as literal truth by the masses after the edits, not whether the producers should be held accountable for the actions of individuals who watch it and get an idea. I can see where the two ideas would become intertwined.

 

[LordOpie]

Originally posted by BurlySurly
What is your worry with this film Opie, out of curiosity...because it seems like the parts they'd need to be held accountable for were edited out so as not to lead to events like those just described. I thought we were arguing whether or not this film should be taken as literal truth by the masses after the edits, not whether the producers should be held accountable for the actions of individuals who watch it and get an idea. I can see where the two ideas would become intertwined.

You brought up other movies and whether people would believe 'em or not, so you lead me on a tangent. Are you of all people disappointed that we went a bit off topic? Ok fine, we'll stick to just this movie and the editing and such.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Originally posted by LordOpie
You brought up other movies and whether people would believe 'em or not, so you lead me on a tangent. Are you of all people disappointed that we went a bit off topic? Ok fine, we'll stick to just this movie and the editing and such.

Jeez Ope!

Dont get all mad and stuff. I just wasnt sure...I wasnt critisizing you.

 

[Tenchiro]

I can't wait until Jesus totally smashes the dudes head with the big spiked mace, while he is sleeping!

 

[LordOpie]

Originally posted by BurlySurly
Jeez Ope!

Dont get all mad and stuff. I just wasnt sure...I wasnt critisizing you.

sorry, i was trying to tease you, especially with the off topic comment... it's this darned first order linear differential equation stuff. I get the mechanics of it, but I had to google to figure out what it means cuz the materials don't explain it at all I finally got a url of something that suggested the left hand side of y' + p(t)y = q(t) is the internal dymanics and the q(t) is external. I do soooo much better when I understand the concepts... the mechanics is easy.

ok, back to your regularly scheduled thread...

 

[CRUM]

Originally posted by LordOpie
So while you few are spouting off about how stupid it is to believe everything you see and hear, well, good for you, but there's lots of people who do believe it.

The fact that many people might take this movie, or anything else they read, see, or hear as literal truth does not diminish the stupidity and ignorance of such a viewpoint.

 

[JRogers]

Originally posted by Tenchiro
I can't wait until Jesus totally smashes the dudes head with the big spiked mace, while he is sleeping!

Word. Or when his arm gets run over by that motorcycle but he gets up and continues to kick a$$.

 

[jdcamb]

Originally posted by JRogers
Word. Or when his arm gets run over by that motorcycle but he gets up and continues to kick a$$.

I heard that BMW made a special car for Jesus just for this movie. And that he did almost all of the stunts himself. Jesus is way cool! ......jdcamb

 

[JRogers]

A buddy of mine wants to make his own movie about Jebus. He would concentrate more on the Jebus of John, the badass we all love. The movie would follow what we know pretty closely except that every, oh, say minute, Jebus gets pissed and flips a table over. Maybe "Jesus: The Rage"?