Same here
Who Killed Jesus?
- Thread starter N8 v2.0
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I may not be a religious scholar, but I did a research paper on hell for my English 101 class 15 yrs ago and I found all sorts of references that the hell people believe you go burn in is questionable in it's actual existence. I won't do the research again, but if I come across my paper, I'll post it. As for interpretation, don't go spouting that the bible is 100% crystal clear, for then you ignore all the major religions and somehow profess to being all knowing.
Damn you and other people here. I'm agreeing with fluff way too much lately and I don't want to
What rock have you been living under. Don't you dare claim to know another person unless you truly try to live their life. When I moved to North Carolina in 1990, I met some of the nicest, yet most ignorant people in the world. I also met some intelligent nice people. And I also met some mean ignorant people. I received a fair amount of prejudice and some people actually told me they were mad at me for killing jesus. So, crawl back under your rock and continue living your imaginary existence.
I am happy for you tho that you believe there is no hate in the world.
No one would take you
:devil:PS: Zod, I won't be reading your ignorant black and white posts in the future. You obviously believe what you believe and believe others are wrong. That's cool, but this is a discussion forum and you just want to preach. Read Andyman's posts and follow his example if you actually want to have a discussion.
Me neither, but I know a bit about a few of 'em. Enough to know interpretation is endemic.
My question is still valid whether you affiliate with any denomination or not. I will rephrase it in light of your response though; do you know much about the faiths of the various denominations that you are not affiliated to?
Sorry if this comes across as combative, it's not meant to.
Awwwwwwwwww how sweet, bless your little heart!!!
As a sidebar, that's a jackass statement on numerous levels, the first being the assumption that the left-wing universally supports extreme measures such as reparations, the second being the assumption that if you're not Christian, you're godless.
The last is the irony of being a judgemental and hateful "Christian."
Don't fall of that horse; he's awfully tall.
And I was beginning to like you, even when we disagreed (which seems to be in one area only if my memory serves me well).Originally posted by LordOpie
Damn you and other people here. I'm agreeing with fluff way too much lately and I don't want to
You've just lost 2 points for making me feel like I have been categorised with N8 and BS.
Aww, I like you too
But you're no where near the same category as either of them. BS is way more funny than you (and weird) and N8 is far more evasive. You're just our little fluffy.
ok, no more for me... off to school. Gots me a Calc3 mid-term today.
LordOpie, settle down there bud...I was not attacking you. The fact is the Bible is 100% crystal clear and I guess I should have said to a Christian. Christian's are not concerned with what other major religions say, or what your 101 paper says, they draw all they believe from the Bible......yes it's blind faith, as it is supposed to be.Originally posted by LordOpie
I may not be a religious scholar, but I did a research paper on hell for my English 101 class 15 yrs ago and I found all sorts of references that the hell people believe you go burn in is questionable in it's actual existence. I won't do the research again, but if I come across my paper, I'll post it. As for interpretation, don't go spouting that the bible is 100% crystal clear, for then you ignore all the major religions and somehow profess to being all knowing.
Once again, chill dude. Where the hell did I say that prejudice didn't exist?? Please don't put words in my mouth. Believe me I live in the Bible Belt.....I know all about prejudice. Prejudice towards Jew, Black, Hispanics, etc. It is rampent here. What I was stating is that Jews should not be up in arms against Mel Gibson, HE IS ONLY MAKING A MOVIE BASED 100% ON WHAT THE GOSPEL SAYS. Why as a Jew would you get mad at him?? Are there people who are going to hate Jews after seeing this movie? YES Are there people who are going to hate Jesus after seeing this movie? YES Are there Jews who are going to hate Jesus after seeing this movie? YES Are there people who are going to hate Romans after seeing this movie? YES...
Should we shelter ourselves from the Gospel and alter the movie to be more politically correct for the sake of those who can't comprehend that Jews as a people are not responsible for death of Jesus? NO.
Your attacking me and telling me to crawl back under my rock is off base. You don't even know me, and are acting no better than the person you are judging me to be.
Once again, where the hell do you get this. Calm down.
Actually I attend a Baptist church, it happens to be Southern Baptist, but it's not your traditional Bible Thumping....you're go to Hell if you don't walk the line stereotypical oneOriginally posted by LordOpie
No one would take you
I simply don't affiliate with a denomination because I find that silly. All that should matter is if I believe and TRY to follow the Word. I try not to get wrapped up in the denominational side.
LordOpie, add me to your ignore list if you wish then, I promise not to lose sleep but you are still reading me all wrong and letting emotions get the best of you.
I'll never under stand the whole, "You obviously believe what you believe and believe others are wrong" argument. If I didn't believe in my convictions 150% what kind of believer would I be. If I believed there were other ways then I would be denying the Word of God.
I expect you to feel the same about your faith, if you don't then I question your walk in it and your convictions.
Wasnt Jesus killed by the Romans?
Someone who read that one book should know, you know the Bybil.
Someone who read that one book should know, you know the Bybil.
No you fluff do not come across as combative, thanks for that....
I know a good bit about other faiths, as an agnostic teen I studied them quite well. I'd be lying if I said I knew them as well as I know my own of course.
The point is that if I knew absolutely nothing about other world religions it wouldn't even matter. What would it matter to a Christian? That's what I ask you.
Christians are on a path of faith so world enlightenment is a moot point for it's followers.
Yes, but only after diplomatic pressure was put on them by Caiaphas (Jewish high priest).....
The trouble is the Bible is not 100% crystal clear and it never could be becase of the limitations of:
Ancient Hebrew
Ancient Greek
Translation
It is therefore open to interpretation. Not all Christians agree on what all of it means hence we have Catholicism, the Anglican church, Baptists, Methodists, Episcopalians (dunno if I spelt that right), Seventh Day Adventists et al.
And out of interest the old Hebrew word sheol means 'a covered place' and is almost exactly translated as hell in old English (some researchers state that the word hell is derived from sheol and is the Anglicized version of sheol).
And other researchers say that nothing in the bible is true, and other researchers say that everything in the bible is true. I just dont understand how people are expected to beleive what's in there. Who killed Jesus? Who knows? The thing that doesnt make sense to me is, if god is jesus and jesus is god, and god controls all that happens. Than god made whoever killed him do it. Not only does that exonerate (sp?) whoever did it, but it also means god committed suicide. Something that's supposedly wrong. So how is he a martyr?
I just cant make heads or tales of it.
I'm suprised DamnTrue hasn't gotten in on this?
Jesus is the Son of God...
God does not "control" man... man has free will. we can choose to believe or not believe in God. We can choose to do or not do something. God did not make Adam and Eve sin in the Garden of Eden, it was their choice.
But as with all things in this Forum, there will be people who will debate this and have their own interpretations.
Jesus is the Son of God...
God does not "control" man... man has free will. we can choose to believe or not believe in God. We can choose to do or not do something. God did not make Adam and Eve sin in the Garden of Eden, it was their choice.
But as with all things in this Forum, there will be people who will debate this and have their own interpretations.
Heck, it's not even universal amongst Catholics. (filioque)
The bible is not crystal clear. You have to stop saying that, because it makes you sound less than intelligent or at very least like someone who hasn't done very much independent research.
I would be interested to hear what you mean. Maybe you're saying it's 100% crystal clear to you that the bible is the word of G-d. That is a statement with which I wouldn't argue. But it is vastly different from the bible is clear to understand.
Please define the difference between 100% of belief in your convictions and 150%. I've never understood this exaggeration. (I'm not being sarcastic, btw).
And you are wrong -- it's not supposed to be blind faith. I do not know exactly what you meant to say by your phrase "blind faith". As a standard, however, it would lead to corruption. You are supposed to question your faith and seek out answers.
OK, I find it very easy to understand, maybe all people don't, but those who have spent time in it (reading it) shouldn't have trouble understanding the content. It's kind of like Shakespear.....hard to follow at first but after you read enough of it you follow it without issue. I gues I shouldn't generalize my comfort level in understanding the Bible.
What do you mean by independent research?
see above
It's an expression of the English language...an exaggeration as to say more than 100%. But I have a feeling you already knew that.
Blind faith was a bad choice of words, I should say unquestioning faith in God and the Bible....easier said that done but that is what is wished of us by God according to the Bible.
I disagree with you on the idea that we are supposed to question our faith (if you are referring to Christians), I can not think of ever seeing such a reference. We are not supposed to ever doubt God, although we will as imperfect beings....
Wow, you must be like super genius or something, because there are those that devote their entire lives to learning and understanding the bible, and still on their deathbeds struggle to interpret it. Somehow you managed it in the first crack, and probably hold down a day job. Maybe I should put you in touch with them, so you can clear up all their questions.
edit: I should make clear my point that, unless you already have a preconcieved notion of the meaning of every passage you read, it is impossible that you "understand" everything in the bible. Your particular notion may make 100% sense to you, but to believe that your interpretation IS Gospel is, well, like LordOpie said, a God complex.
A few years ago my church was pastored by the former head of our denomonation (Free Methodist). The mans name was Dr. Les Whitehead. He lived to be an old man and still didn't have a total understanding of the bible. I would ask this guy question after question and most he could answer and some he would honestly say he had no clue about.
It seems like it would be impossible to do so.
The good book says:
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him" (John 1:1-3)
To say you understand the bible 100% would also indicate that you know God 100% which I do not believe is possible while we are on earth.
This document, the Bible, is so vast and so comlicated that even today schools like Harvard and Yale offer Phd. programs in the study of it.
So shoot I have no idea what I'm even responding too any more...
It seems like it would be impossible to do so.
The good book says:
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him" (John 1:1-3)
To say you understand the bible 100% would also indicate that you know God 100% which I do not believe is possible while we are on earth.
This document, the Bible, is so vast and so comlicated that even today schools like Harvard and Yale offer Phd. programs in the study of it.
So shoot I have no idea what I'm even responding too any more...
Zod, your email reminds me of someone I met who told me, after she visited Germany she was able to understand German -- without ever studying it, and being there about a week.
That aside, you find it easy to understand and it is clear to you? I think, yet again, there is a differing of definitions. Do you mean to say you can understand all the words? Good job, I'm glad you're literate.
Zod, I am not sure why you feel a need to say you understand it completely. The statement seems to have a certain bravado flair. Your masculinity (look at me assuming your male) is not in question.
The fact is the OT is vague and ambiguous in many passages on purpose. Although there are many reasons for this one reason was to ensure that a student would discuss the passages with a teacher (the explanation for this is actually longer, but this is the simplified version).
Oh I don't understand everything completely right when I read it and don't mean to put on like I do, some things take time, especially parts of the Old Testiment. I think having a preacher who is well versed certainly helps me greatly. I KNOW I would not be as comfortable trying to follow the Book without a lot of what is taught in Church but I guess that is why God says that we are to congregate.
Most of the time I have something in my mind that I question or am unsure of but in time I (usually) find an answer I am comfortable with. But once again these are all things of faith. There are many things I will never be able to prove.....especially in this forum
Most of the time I have something in my mind that I question or am unsure of but in time I (usually) find an answer I am comfortable with. But once again these are all things of faith. There are many things I will never be able to prove.....especially in this forum
jehovah's witness.
essentially, the New World translation (which i believe they use to exclusion) states john 1:1 as "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was a god." The addition of the indefinite article is wreckless.
from the greek:
en arche en ho logos (in the beginning was the word)
kai ho logos en pros ton theon (and the word was with God)
kai theos en ho logos (and God was the word, or correctly translated: "the word was God")
check out http://www.carm.org/jw/john1_1.htm for full explanation.
JW=Jehovah's Witnesses
Among other things, they also believe Jesus was not God in the flesh but the angel Michael.
holy cow! That's the funniest thing I've read in quite a while. I'm in the university's computer lab laughing and people are looking at me!
The oral torah. just being helpful
wow, power-geek at it's finest
I know that didn't sound like a compliment, but it actually is.WTF? Ok, who's using zod's acct? Cuz that was way too reasonable for his recent patterns. If I'm understanding you correctly, you're saying that you do your best to understand what G-d's trying to tell you? And that you're comfortable with your understanding? That's a far far far faaaaaaarrrrrgg! cry from 100% crystal clarity. Welcome to enlightment :devil:
Just trying to open it up a little bit Lord Opie, I certainly don't find it to be the enigma that people are making it out to be....but maybe that's just me. I think you will find that people who spend daily quiet time in the Bible come to greatly feel comfortable in it. I am not trying to make myself out to be some genious as you are assuming. I also assume that it is easier for a follower to understand the Book than one who does not believe, when I read it as a young doubter I took little from it and understood little. Granted reading the Bible at 30 as opposed to 16 I am bound to grasp it all better.
Maybe the deal is that a Christians lets the Bible speak to them where a scholar only tries to interpret? Surely the one who's listening is going to be delivered a (devine)message/teaching that the critic will not receive from God...unless he surrenders to Him. Of course this is once again from the view of a believer.....but seeing that I have been on both sides of the fence I see it this way. Certainly there is no real answer to this though
Maybe the deal is that a Christians lets the Bible speak to them where a scholar only tries to interpret? Surely the one who's listening is going to be delivered a (devine)message/teaching that the critic will not receive from God...unless he surrenders to Him. Of course this is once again from the view of a believer.....but seeing that I have been on both sides of the fence I see it this way. Certainly there is no real answer to this though
Uhhh not me.....I was at work surfing the Monkey.....Only kidding, cool thread.....jdcamb
I believe that no man that ever has walked the Earth can be held in the same light as God. Not even Jesus. God is not of this world and I believe that we as Humans can't even begin to understand what God is. We can only marvel at the greatness God embodies and all that God has created. I think we spend way to much time trying to understand God, work it out in our minds, try to explain our faith, and for some try to convince others that our definition is the correct definition of God. I don't understand this... It is such a personal thing.... Why can't we just except Gods existence instead of defining it. Why do we fight wars over the definition that we have for God? I mean just look at your children or a child you love and thank God for the miracle of that child. What am I saying?....well not much I just felt compelled to express myself. Now back to your regularly scheduled program...
God is great.....jdcamb
Man, the one good thing this thread has done is remind me to go back and check on the Brick Testament.
It's coming along nicely...
http://www.thereverend.com/brick_testament/
It's coming along nicely...
http://www.thereverend.com/brick_testament/
*yawn*
That website is fantastic!