[fluff]

What benefit does the common man reap from the presence of the Olympics in his nation?

As far as I can see the taxpayer stumps up the funds to get the infrastructure into place and big business reaps the benefits of the increased trade.

I hope Paris gets 'em.

 

[reflux]

As far as I can see the taxpayer stumps up the funds to get the infrastructure into place and big business reaps the benefits of the increased trade.

Please tell me just how this exactly differs from my everyday life as a middle-class taxpayer?

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

Wow the economic forethought in this thread is mind blowing

 

[Archslater]

If we were to choose a city in the U.S. for the Olympics, seems like it should be a city that needs the economic boon that the Olympics supposedly supplies. New York definitely doesn't need any help.

 

[fluff]

Wow the economic forethought in this thread is mind blowing

Please expand on your statement and enlighten us all.

 

[SkaredShtles]

Denver doesn't want 'em.

We told 'em to pound sand once, and we'll do it again if we have to. :angry:

 

[Changleen]

Fluff is talking about London vs. Paris.

Fluff, as an ex-London commuter, I see very clearly the need for a drastic overhaul of the public and private transport systems in Greater London. If the Olympics mean this overhaul takes place, then I for one am for it. London needs to double the capacity of it's tubes, buses, and arterial roads, and probably need some innovative thinking about other ways for people to effeciently get in and out. It takes 1.5 hrs to cover the 15 miles from the 'burbs to the center presently. That's ridiculous.

 

[MMike]

See my avatar. I'm pretty sure we're still paying for it... and it needs to be torn down.

You can keep yer stinkin' Olympics.......

 

[valve bouncer]

When it's done right, it's definitely a winner for the city. Sydney and Athens seemed to do a prety good job (Sydney especially), Atlanta was a bit of a clusterf*ck.

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

i was wondering the same too..
i recall reading an article about the ecomical impact of the fifa world cup *which aparently is much more profitable and less infraestructure-demanding than the olympics* on the host country.. and it seems that in the last WC all the hosts ended up in deficit....

 

[mack]

My uncle's store took a devastating blow when the Olypics came to Salt Lake. Ever since then buisness has been bad and he has had to close his Park City Store on main street, a building he and my family have leased for 50+ years.

 

[fluff]

Fluff is talking about London vs. Paris.

Fluff, as an ex-London commuter, I see very clearly the need for a drastic overhaul of the public and private transport systems in Greater London. If the Olympics mean this overhaul takes place, then I for one am for it. London needs to double the capacity of it's tubes, buses, and arterial roads, and probably need some innovative thinking about other ways for people to effeciently get in and out. It takes 1.5 hrs to cover the 15 miles from the 'burbs to the center presently. That's ridiculous.

I too am an ex-London commuter and I agree that the infrastructure could do with some work (though where you got the 1.5 hours figure is a mystery to me, it never took me anywhere near that, unless driving in which case why?)

However, what will be done will be paid for by the national taxpayer and the financial benefits will be reaped by a select few oligarchs. It benefits me (and most of the population) not a jot.

 

[N8 v2.0]

Who cares about a bunch of professional amature athletes anyhow. If countries wanna show who's the baddest, then duke it out with some military technology and not some dudes in speedos.

 

[fluff]

Who cares about a bunch of professional amature athletes anyhow. If countries wanna show who's the baddest, then duke it out with some military technology and not some dudes in speedos.

Care to offer a level playing field?

 

[N8 v2.0]

Care to offer a level playing field?

Nope.

 

[MMike]

Who cares about a bunch of professional amature athletes anyhow. If countries wanna show who's the baddest, then duke it out with some military technology and not some dudes in speedos.

Ah the TRUE test of manhood......

 

[Changleen]

I too am an ex-London commuter and I agree that the infrastructure could do with some work (though where you got the 1.5 hours figure is a mystery to me, it never took me anywhere near that, unless driving in which case why?)

However, what will be done will be paid for by the national taxpayer and the financial benefits will be reaped by a select few oligarchs. It benefits me (and most of the population) not a jot.

Except that you'd be able to spend less time sweating on a tube and more time with your family?

 

[Changleen]

Nope.

That's because basically, you're a scared little coward. Perfect foder for the republican propaganda you are too gutless to look beyond.

 

[fluff]

Except that you'd be able to spend less time sweating on a tube and more time with your family?

Did you miss the ex prefix? I no longer live or work in London. And if it took you 1.5 hrs by tube, why did you get on the wrong train?

 

[Changleen]

Nah, I lived in Hampton and worked in Victoria. That's just how long it takes. You have to get a bus to Twickenham or Richmond, then the train to Clapham junction, then train or tube to Victoria.

I was using the royal 'you' - 'one' whatever - 'a person'.

 

[fluff]

Nah, I lived in Hampton and worked in Victoria. That's just how long it takes. You have to get a bus to Twickenham or Richmond, then the train to Clapham junction, then train or tube to Victoria.

I was using the royal 'you' - 'one' whatever - 'a person'.

Given that particular commute would you expect any improvement as a result of work done for the Olympics?

 

[Changleen]

Yes, all the equestrian stuff and a bunch of the Tennis and field sports would probably be be out that way. Secondly any relief in the centre of town would be a help to everyone.

 

[fluff]

Yes, all the equestrian stuff and a bunch of the Tennis and field sports would probably be be out that way. Secondly any relief in the centre of town would be a help to everyone.

OK. Now read the Plans

Quote:
Transport is one of the key strengths of London's Olympic Bid


Transport is one of the real strengths of London's bid for the 2012 Olympic Games and Paralympic Games. The Olympic Park will be the most accessible in the history of the Games with the jewel in the crown of transport plans undoubtedly being the Olympic Javelin.

The Olympic Transport team at Transport for London have been working for two years to give London a strong plan that will deliver excellent Olympic transport.

Speaking to the IOC Evaluation Commission today about the Bid's transport plans Hugh Sumner, Director Olympic Transport at Transport for London said: "Olympic transport is always a challenge but we are confident, though not complacent, that London can deliver a spectacular Games.

"Every day 12 million journeys are made on London's public transport network. Daily spectator demand during the Games will be around 5% of this level at a time of year when 20% of commuters are on holiday. The net result is that London will have an effective 15% spare capacity for the Games."

"London's unique public transport culture will not only allow, but also encourage every spectator to either use London's public transport system, walk or cycle to the Games."

The site of the Olympic Park at Stratford is one of the best connected public transport centres in the world. It currently has nine separate railways lines that serve the Olympic Park and the tenth the Channel Tunnel Rail Link (CTRL) is already undergoing construction and due for completion in 2007. At Games time it will deliver 240,000 passengers an hour with a train arriving every 15 seconds.

The 12-carriage Olympic Javelin, which can travel at up to 225km/hr, will link the Olympic Park with King's Cross/St Pancras in the heart of London in just seven minutes. The shuttle will also connect the Olympic Park with Kent in 10 minutes. A train will arrive every three minutes from either Kent or the centre of London. However, the Javelin is just a small part of what's happening in transport across London.

London's transport infrastructure is undergoing major improvements. A total of $30 billion is committed to be spent on transport in the capital between now and the Games.

Tony McNulty, Transport Minister: "The money that will be spent on improving and operating London's public transport infrastructure is not dependent on winning the bid but is almost entirely already planned and committed. In addition to the £17 billion to be invested between now and 2012 a further £4.5 billion is being invested in over 2000 new carriages on regional rail services into London. As a combined package, this represents one of the largest transport investment programmes in the world."

Investment has already provided new buses, new or refurbished tube trains and the extensive Docklands Light Railway. Almost all the transport infrastructure related to the Games is underway and will be completed by mid 2010. This includes:

Upgrading the DLR with trains being lengthened by 50% and the service extended to City Airport
The Jubilee Line, London's most modern Underground will have its capacity increased by 45%
Extension of the East London Line

- ENDS -

Care to re-think your answer?

 

[Changleen]

No. Why? The Olympic park is not the only venue! Have you ever seen the Olympics? and maybe you missed this bit:

"London's transport infrastructure is undergoing major improvements. A total of $30 billion is committed to be spent on transport in the capital between now and the Games."

" In addition to the £17 billion to be invested between now and 2012 a further £4.5 billion is being invested in over 2000 new carriages on regional rail services into London. As a combined package, this represents one of the largest transport investment programmes in the world."

Money it needs.

 

[fluff]

No. Why? The Olympic park is not the only venue! Have you ever seen the Olympics? and maybe you missed this bit:

"London's transport infrastructure is undergoing major improvements. A total of $30 billion is committed to be spent on transport in the capital between now and the Games."

" In addition to the £17 billion to be invested between now and 2012 a further £4.5 billion is being invested in over 2000 new carriages on regional rail services into London. As a combined package, this represents one of the largest transport investment programmes in the world."

Money it needs.

Money it is getting anyway, not because of the Olympics. The only Olympic specific part will help you only if you wish to go to Docklands and the Olympic park. Furthermore the regional rail services have been privatised so why is the taxpayer funding investment that the directors cream off?

 

[Changleen]

Money it is getting anyway, not because of the Olympics. The only Olympic specific part will help you only if you wish to go to Docklands and the Olympic park. Furthermore the regional rail services have been privatised so why is the taxpayer funding investment that the directors cream off?

Are you utterly cynical and pedantic about everything?

 

[fluff]

Are you utterly cynical and pedantic about everything?

Yes, I am especially pedantic about facts.

 

[Changleen]

The fact that if you ease the pressure on some routes, it will clearly help other routes nearby?

 

[fluff]

The fact that if you ease the pressure on some routes, it will clearly help other routes nearby?

Into Stratford, 'Already one of the best served areas in London' ?

A quote from the earlier posted plan:- It currently has nine separate railways lines that serve the Olympic Park and the tenth the Channel Tunnel Rail Link (CTRL) is already undergoing construction and due for completion in 2007.

 

[Damn True]

If we were to choose a city in the U.S. for the Olympics, seems like it should be a city that needs the economic boon that the Olympics supposedly supplies. New York definitely doesn't need any help.

Well it's a lot easier to get visitors to come to a place like NYC, Sydney, LA than it is to Little Rock Arkansas or Athens.

 

[Transcend]

What benefit does the common man reap from the presence of the Olympics in his nation?

As far as I can see the taxpayer stumps up the funds to get the infrastructure into place and big business reaps the benefits of the increased trade.

I hope Paris gets 'em.

Right - the 50 million tourists cannot possibly bring any wealth to small business owners, restaurant owners, parking valets, hotel chambermaids etc etc right?

 

[valve bouncer]

Well it's a lot easier to get visitors to come to a place like NYC, Sydney, LA than it is to Little Rock Arkansas or Athens.

Athens? Athens, Greece not Athens, Georgia right? Are you kidding?

 

[Damn True]

The olympics in greece was one of the most poorly attended in recent history. Most likely because of the expense of getting there and unfounded rumors of slipshod security. Point is that the host city has to have transportation infrastructure, other attractions beyond the olympiad and good security.

 

[Roasted]

What benefit does the common man reap from the presence of the Olympics in his nation?

As far as I can see the taxpayer stumps up the funds to get the infrastructure into place and big business reaps the benefits of the increased trade.

I hope Paris gets 'em.

I didn't want them, but we got them. Market will explode than in 2012 just like in calgary, the market will die and I will be able to afford a house. I will never understand the blind optimism of pro-olympic tax payers. I don't see how they are ever worth it.

 

[MMike]

I didn't want them, but we got them. Market will explode than in 2012 just like in calgary, the market will die and I will be able to afford a house. I will never understand the blind optimism of pro-olympic tax payers. I don't see how they are ever worth it.

At least the Sea to Sky is getting fixed up!

(Of course that road isn't as fun as it used to be)

 

[Roasted]

At least the Sea to Sky is getting fixed up!

(Of course that road isn't as fun as it used to be)

There are definately some bonuses, don't get me wrong. I just don't believe the plusses outweight the costs. An example of what will happen to whistler

We are building like mad to make enough hotels to meet the min required to receive the olympics. We have promised to do this and I am sure it will happen. However, Whistler can't sustain a 100% occupancy year round (most hotels can't maintain 100% in the winter let alone spring/fall and summer) so the costs of maintaining this many rooms drives rev-par down the tubes. Meaning until 2009 all of the hotels total profit per room stinks. In the meantime rent is being driven through the roof (this is a big roof, rent was already steep enough) and lots of businesses are closing. Small business is replaced by bigger business (we are still hoping on this one but whistller muni wants to keep the small business feel putting a stop plug on anything bigger than an ants butthole, which just causes other problems) and bigger business can afford the losses incured over the next few years.

For a 2 year period (being generous) we are at 100%. All of 2009 will see olympic commitee etc being in whistler. Wohoo rich times, hotels full, we are slammed. Every business is booming, all those new toys on the mountain are getting used, yeah...

Post olympics. We have more hotels than we do guests. Guests are in charge of how much they can pay and drive the overall cost of whistler down. This has a multifold affect. Rich clients stop coming here and big good paying hotels go to the pooper. Some of the hotels get converted to staff accom. Thats ok but I doubt whistler muni will drop property costs so most will stay empty.

I don't see much positive about the olympics coming here. I think the people that are all for it can't see past the glitter of the olympics and don't see how it will affect long term sustainability. Or maybe I am just a grouch and post olympics tourism will maintain a high enough tourist influx that we can maintain the hotels and clientelle while keeping a high enough revpar to keep some of the larger hotels open, which is key to maintaining long term locals interested in living here and not visiting.

But yeah the highway kicks butt, much needed improvement with or without the olympics. Like I said, there are some bonuses, I just don't think Vancouver 2010 looked past the end of their noses. I guess on the positive side, if the area the olympics is going to invade can maintain or increase the tourist level it had previous to the olympics arriving then it will do well and the olympics will have been a full success. But I don't think this actually happens often. (not 100% on that but I am pretty sure besides sal lake city, olympics haven't proven themselves to be a long term money maker.

 

[valve bouncer]

The olympics in greece was one of the most poorly attended in recent history. Most likely because of the expense of getting there and unfounded rumors of slipshod security. Point is that the host city has to have transportation infrastructure, other attractions beyond the olympiad and good security.

]Yeah, that Acropolis thing they have there is nothin'. Should tear it down. Old piece of crap it is.

 

[Damn True]

]Yeah, that Acropolis thing they have there is nothin'. Should tear it down. Old piece of crap it is.

Listen closely now.

"the host city has to have transportation infrastructure , other attractions beyond the olympiad and good security ."

Athens had one of three. Which is why it was so poorly attended.

Do try to offer something beyond just being contrary.....it gets rather boring.

 

[Silver]

And the security at Athens was so bad that a bomb went off.

Oh wait, that was Atlanta. Oops...

 

[valve bouncer]

unfounded rumors of slipshod security.QUOTE]
2 out of 3? Don't be stupid just for the sake of being stupid.
You're just sore because Sydney and Athens showed what a hack job Atlanta did. "Surely non-Americans can't do anything as good as we can". Cue DT spluttering with outrage into his latte.