Those of you with experience in setting them up...how tough should it be to get one for the courier company I work for? We have Timbuk2 and Chrome accounts already. BTI and QBP are both rather anal about their dealer requirements (you know, you have to actually be a retail bike shop), but SBS looks a little more lax. Still trying to convince my boss that it will be okay to put down the bank account info on the application. Are there other wholesalers that cover a broad spectrum of parts out there?
Wholesale accounts
- Thread starter blue
- Start date
Seems like SBS has the same requirement on the app.
SBS dealer app said:
Huh, your trying to set up a bikeshop wholesale account on something that isnt a bike shop?
If so, can you swing me some deals?
I love these incredibly outdated, and close minded ideas of what a business is that many of the wholesalers maintain. They are all afraid that internet based business will piss off some of their BM customers. Of course, the BM clients are losing customers by the hundreds due to being overpriced and providing lousy service for the most part.
The bike industry is the only one I have been involved in that pride's itself on have horrid shop service. There are some small ones that are great, but for the most part, they suck. Shop employees seem to have contempt for their own customers. "what, you can't setup a derrailleur? ugh, give it to me, I'll do it, it'll cost $25."
The bike industry is the only one I have been involved in that pride's itself on have horrid shop service. There are some small ones that are great, but for the most part, they suck. Shop employees seem to have contempt for their own customers. "what, you can't setup a derrailleur? ugh, give it to me, I'll do it, it'll cost $25."
Hmm.. Ive never had that happen, but i guess I don't bring my bike in to get the derailleur setup. If I ever bring my bike in, its mostly to REI because its down the street, and the are happy to fix my problems, and ussually for free. I have come in there to get a cable, when I snapped one on my ride. They just asked if I wanted them to do it, so I said sure. They took my bike into the shop, I went back there, looked around, they took my bike off the stand, and said "here ya go". I asked how much it was, and they said "dont worry about it". They seem like good peeps.
How did this turn into "I hate the lbs"? And when was the last time you stepped into a shop?
I know a few people with wholesaler accounts. While I don't care about my friends who have one, I rather not see the nail salon or the cigarette shop selling XT derailleurs.
BTW, if someone rolls into the shop with an armload of parts from mailorder, I will be glad to put them on for normal service charges. But don't expect any special treatment which a regular customer would receive, like while you wait service. You get put on the queue right behind the Huffy tuneup or flat tire repair.
Hey Sanjuro, did it ever occur to you that this "special treatment" of the in-clique is a major reason why people hate LBS's to being with? I only want fair treatment and decent prices, personally. Since the LBS's around here seem to have trouble with both of those concepts, I'll stick to M.O. for most my major purchases. Im willing to bet most feel the same way.
Do you not get the overhead that BM shops have vs a warehouse that doesn't have a bunch of bikes tying up cash? I personally don't have contempt for folks, until they deserve contempt. It's amazing that someone that has been around the industry is blind.
Anyway - the point is, blue is not a shop, he's a consumer trying to get sh*t on the cheap. It's not about a messenger service, it's about being cheap. Besides, aren't messengers cyclists, making them consumers? Having a business license doesn't make you a bike shop, no more than having a camera making you a photographer. You'll jump around when someone takes advantage of a photograph, but not when someone takes advantage of an industry.
You're a simple little man.
But see, Jason, if you buy your bike from me, along with parts, is it not fair for me to jump you in the queue? I don't put bikes off, but I'll support those supporting me whole heartedly first. That's just good business sense.
I just dont feel that as a consumer, it's my duty to support anyone but myself. Is that selfish? Not when you consider that the only reason an LBS gives you better treatment is because they make more off you in the longrun. I like small businesses. I like having reliable locals who can help me out. But Id rather it just be fair all around instead of more and less fair to select individuals.
It oisn't an I hate LBS thread, I am just pointing out the sad truth. The wholesale to shops with a BM storefront only method is old, and they are clinging to it for what little time they can.
Most of the high end bike shops I have been in have this exact attitude. There is nothing but contempt for a customer. If you don't know bikes, live bikes and abide by their bike culture, you are a lowly customer and will be treated like swine.
Hell, even bicycle retailer has run stories on the lack of customer service in this industry at the shop level.
I completely get the overhead a shop runs, and guess what, it isn't worth paying the extra money to get parts from them just so they can keep their lights on. Especially when as a customer, you get treated like crap. If they offerred exceptional customer service, it would be worth it. Also, most of those warehouse sites carry a HUGE amount of inventory, more than most shops could ever dream of.
As sanjuro said, many "friends" have wholesale accounts, I have a few friends like this too, some of which post on this very site. This just proves that the "in-crowd" concept is running strong. If anything, i think that giving a bike messenger company a wholesale contract fvor their own employees is more than acceptable.
Most of the time they are far more worthy of said parts than the shop rats who work at their shops simply for cheap parts...which is nearly all of them.
Most of the high end bike shops I have been in have this exact attitude. There is nothing but contempt for a customer. If you don't know bikes, live bikes and abide by their bike culture, you are a lowly customer and will be treated like swine.
Precisely.
Hell, even bicycle retailer has run stories on the lack of customer service in this industry at the shop level.
I completely get the overhead a shop runs, and guess what, it isn't worth paying the extra money to get parts from them just so they can keep their lights on. Especially when as a customer, you get treated like crap. If they offerred exceptional customer service, it would be worth it. Also, most of those warehouse sites carry a HUGE amount of inventory, more than most shops could ever dream of.
As sanjuro said, many "friends" have wholesale accounts, I have a few friends like this too, some of which post on this very site. This just proves that the "in-crowd" concept is running strong. If anything, i think that giving a bike messenger company a wholesale contract fvor their own employees is more than acceptable.
Most of the time they are far more worthy of said parts than the shop rats who work at their shops simply for cheap parts...which is nearly all of them.
Everyone person who walks into a shop with a fancy bike expects "special" treatment, whether they bought it from us or not.
Regular treatment means into the queue and standard markup based on the wholesale prices every shop pays.
I dont want anything special at all. If I need something fixed and the guy can get to it soon, fine, great. If he cant and I have to wait, just give me a ball-park date so I can decide whether or not I want the work done.
As far as "standard markup" goes, anything beyond MSRP is simply unacceptable in my book and I'll find the best price I can. I realize that my experiences are probably not typical, and that people usually only hear the bad stuff, but if I can do most my own work and find my parts cheaper, why on earth would I pay more? I dont just have extra money to be giving away. Sometimes, for convenience sake, Ill make an LBS run for parts, but thats about it. For some specialty stuff, like getting a BB shell retapped, the LBS is great. But that's all I need it for and all I plan on using it for. If a business cannot adjust, it becomes obselete. That's not my fault or problem, its theirs. If the LBS goes bybye, I guess I'll be buying some more tools. No emotional or philosophical connection there for me. I just like to ride my bike.
Precisely...I've got friends with wholesale accounts or access to them, none of whom actually work for or run a shop. I have heard of some messenger companies on the east coast having wholesale accounts, hence my asking.
I should mention that technically we do sell Timbuk2 and Chrome bags retail, however, that happens maybe three times a year.
I didn't see that fine print on the app, loco. I suppose we do have a "storefront" with a sign...
When I ran a shop I thought I had equal contempt for all customers.
This is the common rebuttal to what you just said: "we need shops for stuff like specialty tools, frame realignment etc. What would you do without them?"
The answer...nut up and buy more tools. I am not in the business of keeping the shop in the black, it's the shops problem. If they can't keep their head above water due to the change in business practices, this isn't my problem. Shops will alway sbe around because their will always be people who don't know how/care to work on their kids bike, or who have more money than they know what to do with.
People who push the shops are necessary spiel usually feel like they are some part of the community or something. They are a business, plain and simple. If you can't adapt, you become obsolete as Burly said.
Hell, one shop i am aware of no longer sells anything but tubes, cables, housing etc. They rent people tools by the hour, or charge for the use of a qualified mechanic. They have no real inventory, limited overhead and are quite successful because of it. They encourage people to buy their stuff as cheap as they can online, and then bring it in and learn to do their own work.
Actually, I respect your attitude quite a bit, and you don't whine about how the shop ripped you off because they charged $20 more than Cambria.
There are people who come in the shop semi frequently, act nice, ride frequently, and buy most of their stuff through mailorder. I treat the differently because they are regulars, and I try to make them a nice deal when I can.
The shop, even for the owner and the full time employees, is still a fun place to be. As long as you go along with that, we will make it right with anyone.
Im sure if I lived in a more bikey area, my views would probably be different. When I lived in Hawaii, most my friends worked at the LBS and it was great to hang out there. I realize their value and all.
I think the hardest part is when you really like mountain bikes. Disc brake and suspension technology is the big difference between bike retail in the 90's and now. A lot of old timers know zero about this kind of stuff, and their shops are a reflection of that.
Even in Norcal, 95% of the shops I would not go to with a mountain bike.
Blue,
I think the responses to your original question have run aground.
I don't know of any company that is like that. I will say that a few of the messenger companies from around here (2 of which went out of business a few years back) had accounts with (I think) QBP. I think you should investigate it with them personally on the phone and explain the situation, and talk to SBS the same way. Maybe even work through the scenario that your "shop" is a repair shop for messenger bikes etc. Not really selling parts etc. but repairing bikes.
Good luck!
I think the responses to your original question have run aground.
I don't know of any company that is like that. I will say that a few of the messenger companies from around here (2 of which went out of business a few years back) had accounts with (I think) QBP. I think you should investigate it with them personally on the phone and explain the situation, and talk to SBS the same way. Maybe even work through the scenario that your "shop" is a repair shop for messenger bikes etc. Not really selling parts etc. but repairing bikes.
Good luck!
Not being a bike shop, you certainly aren't entitled to a wholesale account. Any place that grants you a wholesale account is doing so strictly on good will. You're essentially abusing the system trying to get these wholesale accounts. You're not a bike shop - the accounts are not designated for anyone whose business involves a bike, they're for retailers.
What you should be doing is talking to the local bike shops in your area. "We're a bike courier service and we are looking for a local bike shop to do all of our business with. We currently have a fleet of <X> bikes and anticipate spending <X> per month on replacement or new parts, what kind of deal can you cut us?"
What you should be doing is talking to the local bike shops in your area. "We're a bike courier service and we are looking for a local bike shop to do all of our business with. We currently have a fleet of <X> bikes and anticipate spending <X> per month on replacement or new parts, what kind of deal can you cut us?"
Exactly - I would do a deal with him for 10% over cost or something of that effect.
[QUOTE.
What you should be doing is talking to the local bike shops in your area. "We're a bike courier service and we are looking for a local bike shop to do all of our business with. We currently have a fleet of <X> bikes and anticipate spending <X> per month on replacement or new parts, what kind of deal can you cut us?"[/QUOTE]
Partner up with a shop
What a good biz concept.
good luck
Victor
What you should be doing is talking to the local bike shops in your area. "We're a bike courier service and we are looking for a local bike shop to do all of our business with. We currently have a fleet of <X> bikes and anticipate spending <X> per month on replacement or new parts, what kind of deal can you cut us?"[/QUOTE]
Partner up with a shop
What a good biz concept. good luck
Victor
agreed, and very good point!
Probably not such a hot idea. I think the shops in the immediate locality are already drowning in their own inventory. One kind of gives me a discount, but it always comes with a lecture on what I should be riding with, and how I need to live the "dirtbag lifestyle" because I'm a bike messenger. We work on all of our own bikes, all we need is a dirt cheap source for replacement parts like cables, tubes, and tires - not a place for me to get big ticket items at cost.
The idea was floated to open a shop in the space next door a couple years ago...I guess that tanked. One that operated on straight repairs would make a whole ton of sense.
I wouldn't call what I'm trying to do abuse anymore so than what it seems like the entire bike industry does at present (see Transcend).
So take it online if you don't need local service. Maybe a place like Go-Ride or someone would work out a deal with you.
Everyone else doing it is not, never has been, and never will be a valid excuse for dishonesty. I'm not preaching at you from the pulpit, as I've used someone else's hookup before too, but don't try to justify it just because others are dishonest as well.
The whole bike industry would go under if everyone did it.
We're not saying we're a shop or a retailer...I don't get what's so dishonest here?
I would think a shop would be willing to sponsor a messenger service the way they sponsor a team.
I am slow as hell, but my lbs gives me great deals because I wear the jersey when I race and I pimp the shop when I'm in public. I would think if you sported a shop logo or something, that a shop would give you a deal like Bogey said (cost + 10% or something).
For small items, I would say that is about as good as direct prices from BTI + shipping. Maybe is you buy in bulk, the shop would make a better deal too.
I am slow as hell, but my lbs gives me great deals because I wear the jersey when I race and I pimp the shop when I'm in public. I would think if you sported a shop logo or something, that a shop would give you a deal like Bogey said (cost + 10% or something).
For small items, I would say that is about as good as direct prices from BTI + shipping. Maybe is you buy in bulk, the shop would make a better deal too.
No chance of a "sponsorship"- period. Sadly.
Meh, sorry, was getting dragged into the thread rather than referring to the original post.
As I said in my earlier post, it would be "good will" if a wholesaler would offer you an account, because you are not even close to the intended target of those accounts.
My point about the dishonesty was just that if you use these accounts under false pretenses (getting stuff from a friend, claiming you're a retailer, etc.) it's not okay just because "everyone does it." Ya' know?
No experience here, but I bet someone at the IFBMA forums does.
Actually, I have to agree with you on this point. I don't like to have discussions about the stuff I buy, and I enjoy the privilege of ordering stuff directly from the wholesalers without the owner's explicit approval.
Why don't you open your own "pseudo-shop"? You can probably generate enough sales to justify an account.
I do agree whole hartedly with BV and what he is saying..any sales would be above and beyond any expectation....but I am willing to bet if you approached these guys openly and honestly, you might be able to get something set up. I know for a fact that these wholesalers mentioned have many many relationships with non-bike shops. They have recriprical accounts with the majority of their own suppliers (ie someone from brand X carried by BTI can order stuff from brand Y through BTI). You are 'in the biz' just as much as a kid packing boxes at some wharehouse.
At the very least, you will need to provide some info to them (banking info, business liscense, etc) and this will require the help of the owner/boss to do. Never hurts to ask. In my experience, most of the bike biz is still fairly approachable.
At the very least, you will need to provide some info to them (banking info, business liscense, etc) and this will require the help of the owner/boss to do. Never hurts to ask. In my experience, most of the bike biz is still fairly approachable.
How many times are we even going to have this discussion on RM?
Here is a crazy idea...What if a LBS wasn't trying to get rich off of you by selling a seatpost at MSRP, what if they were just trying to generate enough profit off the sale to pay their full time mechanic a decent salary so he or she can support their family?
Do you people ever buy "fair trade" coffee? Its the same principal.
So before people stop buying from their LBS, maybe they should think that the high prices are not for getting rich, or paying the light bill, or keeping nice bikes on the showroom floor......maybe its just about keeping knowledgeable friendly people around as staff.
Here is a crazy idea...What if a LBS wasn't trying to get rich off of you by selling a seatpost at MSRP, what if they were just trying to generate enough profit off the sale to pay their full time mechanic a decent salary so he or she can support their family?
Do you people ever buy "fair trade" coffee? Its the same principal.
So before people stop buying from their LBS, maybe they should think that the high prices are not for getting rich, or paying the light bill, or keeping nice bikes on the showroom floor......maybe its just about keeping knowledgeable friendly people around as staff.
Blue, I doubt that going for a wholesale account will work like you want it too. Even if you could get one of the wholesalers to allow you to have an account, there is usually a buy-in that would either leave you with thousands of tubes, or it would prevent you from ever establishing the account.
The items you mentioned are extreemly high margin items, whe bought it bulk tubes are dirt cheap as are cables, what I would do is contact a few of the mail-order companies that also do bake repair in-store and see what sort of a discount they can work for you if you buy in bulk. At the shop I used to work for we had a guy who ran a repair service in Costa Rica do essentialy the same thing, he would order a box of 50 brake cables and we would sell tham at about a 30% margin, instead of the usual price of $4/each wich was about a 200% margin. Tubes are the same way, a larger shop sells them for anywhere between a 200% and a 1000% margin, depending on their discount, so if you bought a brick of 50 tubes you mite be able to get the shop to go for a 100% mark-up and save a bundle. There's not quite as much profit in tires, but you still mite be able to pull a good deal buying 10 or 220 at a time.
The items you mentioned are extreemly high margin items, whe bought it bulk tubes are dirt cheap as are cables, what I would do is contact a few of the mail-order companies that also do bake repair in-store and see what sort of a discount they can work for you if you buy in bulk. At the shop I used to work for we had a guy who ran a repair service in Costa Rica do essentialy the same thing, he would order a box of 50 brake cables and we would sell tham at about a 30% margin, instead of the usual price of $4/each wich was about a 200% margin. Tubes are the same way, a larger shop sells them for anywhere between a 200% and a 1000% margin, depending on their discount, so if you bought a brick of 50 tubes you mite be able to get the shop to go for a 100% mark-up and save a bundle. There's not quite as much profit in tires, but you still mite be able to pull a good deal buying 10 or 220 at a time.
I disagree, maxyedor. If Blue can get his own account, he could save $4-6 a tube. Even if a shop sold him bulk for 30%, he would still save $1-2 a tube.
And he is getting harassed because he is a dirtball messenger, why would any shop give him a 100% discount?
And he is getting harassed because he is a dirtball messenger, why would any shop give him a 100% discount?
im just lucky my work already has accounts at BTI and QBP .... Screw my health insurance, my wholesale hookup is what its all about.....
Well if you read the rest of what I wrote, most wholesalers will require some sort of a buy-in, so unless they needs a couple thousand tubes, they'll have to find a couple frames and a few forks just to get the buy-in taken care of, then probably have to ddo it again in a years time. Wholesalers sell to shops, so even though the messenger service is a bike based industry, it's not a shop, I doubt that a wholesaler would be willing to let them set up an account for the same reason they wouldn't let a local bike club or a race team have an account. The messenger service needs to structure their buisness to cover the retail cost of the parts they need, and then any generosity a shop has toward them id gravy.
Also I realize the local shops don't like the messengers, hence my recomendation to find mail-order company willing to make a deal. Also it's not a 100% discound, it's a 100% margin, so if the tubes cost the shop $1 they sell to Blue for $2 instead of $6 as long as they order in bulk. The main reason tubes have a huge mark-up is because they are very labor intensive to sell, most customers do not go over to the rack and grab the one they need, you have to talk to them for a few minutes to try and figure out what type of tube they need, that labor isn't needed if somebody just calls up and says "I need 50 700c presta valve tubes" all of a suden it takes 5 minutes to sell 50, vs. 15 minutes to sell 1 or 2. Most of mail-order companies will be happy to make a deal because they still make plenty of money on the sale.
Blue, another question for you, when you are at the local shops asking for a discount, are you buying in bulk at that time, or are you buying 3 tubes and a brake cable and asking for the discount then? Reason I ask is that, in general shops don't appreciat being nickle and dimed on a $15 sale, but if you make a somewhat routine $100 purchase they see that you are more serious, not just some asshat who wants a handout.
I am not sure why you want to throw a monkeywrench into Blue's plan. Would you like me to name 3 wholesalers that don't require a "buy-in"?
I think as long it is bike related and does not affect my business, I think it is a good idea. Ultimately, it is up to whatever wholesaler Blue contacts if they want his business or not.
Just tell me what advantage of Blue's is it to create a middleman for his product?
Not trying to throw a monkey wrench in anybodies plans, and I am aware that there are wholesalers that do not require a buy-in. All I'm saying is don't be shocked when it doesn't work, and that when and if his plan of establishing a wholesale account doesn't work, going through a mail-order company and purchasing in bulk would still save him a boatload of cash.