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Who's to Blame for High Oil and Gas Prices?

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
Who's to Blame for High Oil and Gas Prices?
Ben Stein
Monday, March 20, 2006


Executives of the big oil companies have been hauled before the U.S. Senate recently to defend their industry's recent mergers and record profits as American consumers face high oil and gasoline prices. I'm going to defend the big energy companies in this case, since I think they're not the reason for high prices.

Before you write me angry e-mails, dear reader, let me first lay down some street credibility. Yes, I'm a gray-haired guy now. But I've spent a lot of time in my life as an antipoverty lawyer in New Haven, Conn., and in Washington, D.C., helping very poor people with their legal woes. I also spent years as a lawyer working on prosecuting false and deceptive advertising.

Probably the lion's share of my adult life was spent writing about financial fraud for financial publication Barron's, and I helped put a number of fraudulent entities out of business. I also testified against a number of fraudulent managements in lawsuits, both state and federal, and I still often write about injustice in the boardroom.

That being said, I also know how a lynch mob operates. After all, if there's a problem, some cause has to be found. And it's really lovely if the cause can be someone rich and powerful so that we can work off our envy and also take the intoxicating drug of anger. Anger organizes our emotions, lines them up, removes ambiguity, and feels good.

Urge to Crack Down

So, the mob goes after someone to lynch, even if that person is innocent. After all, as the immortal Bob Dylan sang long ago, "A lot of people have knives and forks, and they don't have nothing on their plates, and they have to cut something."

This comes to mind because of the recent actions in the U.S. Senate that attempt to "crack down" on energy companies because the price of oil is so much higher than it used to be and because one large oil concern, Exxon (XOM), is reporting very large profits (after many years of modest earnings).

The crackdown takes the form of preventing oil companies from merging or at least making it much harder for them to merge. The idea is that the energy companies have been fixing prices at artificially high levels, and if they merge, they'll just do it more.

This idea is apparently backed even by someone as wise as Senator Arlen Specter (Rep.-Pa.), Chairman of the Judiciary Committee and a fellow graduate of Yale Law School.

No Conspiracy

The only problem with this idea is that it's based on a totally false premise. The energy companies don't set the price of oil or of gasoline. The prices you pay for heating oil or gasoline aren't set in boardrooms in Texas but in trading rooms at commodities markets all over the world.

Gas prices aren't set in shadowy conferences in shooting lodges, but in rooms of people shouting or punching computer keys in London, New York, and Tokyo. Oil is a world commodity like tin or copper or rubber or coffee. The price is set by traders anticipating supply and demand.

Rumors of war in the Mideast, terrorism against oil platforms in Nigeria, warmer weather in New England, bitter cold in London -- these are what set energy prices. Even the biggest U.S. energy companies are tiny pawns in the game compared with the world market, flotsam and jetsam in the ocean of world oil trading.

So, when prices go up or down, it's not a conspiracy. It's panic or confidence in the market. It's just like what happens on the stock markets every trading day -- greed or fear at work, not at the companies being traded but on the exchanges. The oil companies can either lose or gain from this trading.

Hobbling the Oil Companies
I know this is hard news to digest because who do we hate then?

Well, some think we solve the problem by just hating and blaming the innocent -- in this case, the oil companies, dragging them from their beds, and lynching them. So what if they're innocent? Someone's got to pay.

The only problem is that if we keep punishing the companies that in good faith give us the energy we need to power our lives at market prices -- which sometimes give them a big profit and sometimes give them a small one -- eventually, they'll go away. Or they won't have the ability to do their jobs as well because of all the restrictions we've put on them.

Never mind, some think. A lot of people have knives and forks, and they don't have nothing on their plates, and they have to cut something.
 

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,022
3
Denver
gas is borderline monopolistic... remember when they split up AT&T into small companies? Why allow gas giants (spaceGeek++;) to merge only to force them through what AT&T went through?

But I don't think gas prices are too high, so I'm not really complaining.
 

Echo

crooked smile
Jul 10, 2002
11,819
15
Slacking at work
This guy is so full of crap I don't even know where to start. He's trying to say that Exxon is just some little pawn who buys oil at market prices and sells it at a fair markup? If that was the case their profits would remain (sort of) constant, right? He proved himself wrong. I thought even N8 could figure out something this blatantly simple.
 
Total BS.
Under the inferred logic of the aricle's author, big oil companies would make roughly the same margin of profit as supply and demand fluctuates.

We all know that that big oil has posted banner profits the last few years so lets look at an anolgy.

Let say McDonald's cost of overhead goes up due to increases in hamburger buns, lettuce and tomatoes and that the increase is .25 a burger.
Okay, they raise the cost of a BigMac by .25.
Thats is fair.

What is suspect is when the cost of overhead goes up by .25 and they increase the burger price by $1.25.

Hey all business is certainly allowed to make a profit but price gouging is something else.

Okay, so if big oil is having record years of profits under this scenario then i have a hard time beleving that it is not collusion to raise the prices and never look back.
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
0
SF
I always liked to point out how I used to work for an oil company, and when the price of oil was $12 a barrel, it was necessary to close my entire office, about 500 people.

If oil companies had such power over the price of oil, why didn't they raise it then?
 

Echo

crooked smile
Jul 10, 2002
11,819
15
Slacking at work
sanjuro said:
I always liked to point out how I used to work for an oil company, and when the price of oil was $12 a barrel, it was necessary to close my entire office, about 500 people.

If oil companies had such power over the price of oil, why didn't they raise it then?
Obviously they didn't think keeping the people in your office was worth it.
 

Toshi

butthole powerwashing evangelist
Oct 23, 2001
40,250
9,126
sanjuro said:
I always liked to point out how I used to work for an oil company, and when the price of oil was $12 a barrel, it was necessary to close my entire office, about 500 people.

If oil companies had such power over the price of oil, why didn't they raise it then?
i bet the number of pirates and ninjas worldwide was at an all-time low then, as well. your story doesn't prove squat in terms of causation vs. correlation/association.
 

Serial Midget

Al Bundy
Jun 25, 2002
13,053
1,897
Fort of Rio Grande
I blame myself. The oil companies have got me by the balls and I am unwilling to cut them off. I should drive less and conserve the natural gas I use to heat my home. But I won't. :oink:
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
0
SF
Echo said:
Obviously they didn't think keeping the people in your office was worth it.
Thanks for the 411. Do you think the oil companies tried to keep prices under $15 for 2 years as well?
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,649
26
SF, CA
sanjuro said:
I always liked to point out how I used to work for an oil company, and when the price of oil was $12 a barrel, it was necessary to close my entire office, about 500 people.

If oil companies had such power over the price of oil, why didn't they raise it then?
Hey, I'm fine with oil companies making tons of money by intelligently and legitimately competing in the futures market, especially if it helps them float tougher times. What I'm not okay with, is them utilizing political connections to create uncertainty to drive up oil futures artificially. On the NYSE this would be insider trading.
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
0
SF
Toshi said:
i bet the number of pirates and ninjas worldwide was at an all-time low then, as well. your story doesn't prove squat in terms of causation vs. correlation/association.
Hmm, price of oil at low, slump in industry, oil company layoffs, # of pirates and ninjas. Which one is not related to all the others?

American oil companies control a small amount of the supply. Americans in particular control much of the demand.

Is someone going to benefit from high oil prices? Yes the oil companies. Are they in collusion to keep them high? Well, if they were, they have should have prevented the multiple oil busts in the last 30 years.
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
0
SF
ohio said:
Hey, I'm fine with oil companies making tons of money by intelligently and legitimately competing in the futures market, especially if it helps them float tougher times. What I'm not okay with, is them utilizing political connections to create uncertainty to drive up oil futures artificially. On the NYSE this would be insider trading.
I agree fully. I like to think my old company is run ethically. High oil prices is not proof that they are ripping people off.
 

noname

Monkey
Feb 19, 2006
544
0
outer limits
LOOnatic said:
Total BS.
Under the inferred logic of the aricle's author, big oil companies would make roughly the same margin of profit as supply and demand fluctuates.

We all know that that big oil has posted banner profits the last few years so lets look at an anolgy.

Let say McDonald's cost of overhead goes up due to increases in hamburger buns, lettuce and tomatoes and that the increase is .25 a burger.
Okay, they raise the cost of a BigMac by .25.
Thats is fair.

What is suspect is when the cost of overhead goes up by .25 and they increase the burger price by $1.25.

Hey all business is certainly allowed to make a profit but price gouging is something else.

Okay, so if big oil is having record years of profits under this scenario then i have a hard time beleving that it is not collusion to raise the prices and never look back.
Mark ups are usually set in percentages. If I pay 100 dollars for something and then mark it up 10%, the selling price is 110 dollars, if my cost goes up 10%($10), I am paying 110 dollars, and my profit has gone up 1 dollar.
It is true that the oil companies posted the highest profits on record, but what was the profit margin of the product? Oil has one of the lowest profit margins in the corporate world. The huge profits they make come from the incredible volume of product they sell. The average oil company profit from a gallon of gas is literally only a few cents, but when you sell millions of gallons...........(BTW the federal government makes a hell of a lot more off of the sale of a gallon of gas than the oil company or the station, just check the part of the pump that tells you how much of the price is the included gas tax, around here it's near 40 cents a gallon.)
 

rooftest

Monkey
Jul 10, 2005
611
0
OC, CA
narlus said:
i wanna hear Kimmel's perspective.
Don't tell me Jimmy Kimmel's another comedian turned political philosopher... Funny as he is, I thought there was something I didn't like about him... tell me I've got the wrong Kimmel
 

dan-o

Turbo Monkey
Jun 30, 2004
6,499
2,805
noname said:
(BTW the federal government makes a hell of a lot more off of the sale of a gallon of gas than the oil company or the station, just check the part of the pump that tells you how much of the price is the included gas tax, around here it's near 40 cents a gallon.)
But gov't fuel taxes don't fluctuate week to week for no apparent reason.
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,649
26
SF, CA
sanjuro said:
I like to think my old company is run ethically.
In my experience, there are very very few companies in very very few industries that I would truly say are ethically run. If the friggin' apparel industry has a hard time maintaining ethical standards, it's not surprising that the oil industry is less than clean.

Check out a book called "Hardball" if you get a chance...
 

dan-o

Turbo Monkey
Jun 30, 2004
6,499
2,805
noname said:
it's only unapparent to you because you don't understand how the futures market operates.
Explain how futures markets effect fuel taxes please.
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,649
26
SF, CA
noname said:
Oil has one of the lowest profit margins in the corporate world. The huge profits they make come from the incredible volume of product they sell. The average oil company profit from a gallon of gas is literally only a few cents, but when you sell millions of gallons.
DRB will probably ownerize me on this one, but what you just wrote is not really accurate at all, and fails to take into account the entire value chain or the nature of a futures market. Think of it like another commodity market, say oranges (I love Trading Places). What you described above is accurate for the farmer and the grocery store. In between them however is someone playing the futures on oranges and capturing HUGE margin on the volatility of the market (see greedy old men in Trading Places).

However, unlike growing oranges, there is actually very little volatility in pumping oil out of the ground unless a major outlet (or set of reserves) are suddenly taken off the map, as in the case of a war, or hurricane, or embargo. Barring those events, oil prices are fairly steady and margins are not particularly high at any point along the chain as one would expect for any commodity. Also unlike oranges, the first world economy cannot survive without oil, so reactions to volatility tend to be pretty wild and OPEC has considerable room to fack with the system.
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
0
SF
ohio said:
In my experience, there are very very few companies in very very few industries that I would truly say are ethically run. If the friggin' apparel industry has a hard time maintaining ethical standards, it's not surprising that the oil industry is less than clean.

Check out a book called "Hardball" if you get a chance...
Like I said, "I like to think my old company..."

Compared to Enron, we are tops for ethics...
 

fluff

Monkey Turbo
Sep 8, 2001
5,673
2
Feeling the lag
ohio said:
In my experience, there are very very few companies in very very few industries that I would truly say are ethically run. If the friggin' apparel industry has a hard time maintaining ethical standards, it's not surprising that the oil industry is less than clean.

Check out a book called "Hardball" if you get a chance...
Can you remember the author?
 

noname

Monkey
Feb 19, 2006
544
0
outer limits
dan-o said:
Explain how futures markets effect fuel taxes please.
futures markets affect fuel prices, which is why to someone that isn't familiar with them it would seem that prices fluctuate "for no apparent reason". I was assuming you were referring to the fluctuations with fuel costs compared to taxes.
Quick (and simple) futures example:
I grow corn. Corn is how I make my money so until the corn is ready for market I am essentially without income but still have expenses to cover. A futures trader comes along and, after analyzing the weather expectations, amount of corn to bge planted by myself and others, as well as many other factors, decides that the market value of my corn will be $55 dollars a bushel. We agree and I am paid for the estimated amount of corn to be produced at the preset price. If the market value of corn skyrockets, the trader has made a serious profit, if
the value plummets, he takes a loss and I make off better than if I had waited.
The rub comes from the fact that in the oil market these estimates take place on a daily, weekly, monthly, and yearly basis. They are heavily influenced from natural, poliltical, and cyclical usage estimates. That is why the prices can seem to fluctuate so much.
The futures price goes up when a perceived threat is seen, and if it turns out to be false the prices drop just as fast.
If I am not mistaken a large part of the oil futures are traded as crude, then you still have to add in to the price the refinement and transport. If you look at what it takes to produce a summer blend of gas for, say, New Jersey, then look at what you pay for a gallon of gas, it's actually pretty impressive that it can be had that cheap.
 

narlus

Eastcoast Softcore
Staff member
Nov 7, 2001
24,658
65
behind the viewfinder
rooftest said:
Don't tell me Jimmy Kimmel's another comedian turned political philosopher... Funny as he is, I thought there was something I didn't like about him... tell me I've got the wrong Kimmel
it was a joke, hingeing on the Ben Stein connection (remember 'win ben stein's money'?).

at least someone commented on it, if not laughed. :D
 

biggins

Rump Junkie
May 18, 2003
7,173
9
i read something at the begining of the year that the USA actually made more money in fuel tax than the oil companies actually made in profits last year.
 

narlus

Eastcoast Softcore
Staff member
Nov 7, 2001
24,658
65
behind the viewfinder
that could be true, if the tax rate (based on costs added after it leaves the MFG) is higher than the MFG profit margin. it's probably true of things like cigs and alcohol too.
 

noname

Monkey
Feb 19, 2006
544
0
outer limits
biggins said:
i read something at the begining of the year that the USA actually made more money in fuel tax than the oil companies actually made in profits last year.
should we call that a windfall tax profit?
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,649
26
SF, CA

DRB

unemployed bum
Oct 24, 2002
15,242
0
Watchin' you. Writing it all down.
The short answer, which is all you get today because its Friday and I've had a week of this crap, are as follows.

What ohio is saying would be correct for 5 years ago. Noname is basically correct for what is happening now.

The market has changed in the last 5 years. Perceived influences have a much larger affect on oil prices today then ever before. In the past oil futures were driven almost exclusively by demand. What MAY happen had a minimal affect on pricing. OPEC has struggled with this change and it has forced them to modify the way in which they communicate.

Echo and LOOnatic, sorry you two are way off base. I wish that you remembered the mid 90's when oil companies were getting killed. If price collusion was reality then that would have never happened.

If I can get enough of the week out of my mind, I'll give you more later.