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no skid marks

Monkey
Jan 15, 2006
2,514
26
ACT Australia
Just curious why people are running Boxxers, or 40s now days instead of 2010-11 888s. Is it just lack of knowledge, minor weight gains, or sponsorship specials?
 

juanbeegas

Monkey
May 6, 2008
356
2
Singapore
Marzocchi were having quality control issues for a while and maybe people are still a little cautious about dropping that kind of money on something that may, or may not work?
I think they're a little heavy for what I'd pay and would pick a Boxxer over a 888, but that might just be me.
 

Jm_

Turbo Monkey
Jan 14, 2002
9,653
2,013
AK
Maybe better low speed compression control coupled with a shimmed rebound stack, both things that the 40 and boxxer have over the 888.
 

captainspauldin

intrigued by a pole
May 14, 2007
1,171
95
Jersey Shore
Better question, Why would anyone run a 888 over a boxxer/40?

I know the new EVO Ti is supposed to be pretty sweet, but Marzocchi have a bit of a reputation problem w/the crap they produced in 2008..
 

SylentK

Turbo Monkey
Feb 25, 2004
1,230
191
coloRADo
The brits use what Peaty or Gee uses. The aussies use was Sam Hill uses. And the French - Barel. That's about 80% of all the racers in the world. And none of them rock the 888.
 

no skid marks

Monkey
Jan 15, 2006
2,514
26
ACT Australia
Your livin in the past man. Hence why I said 2010-11. Boxxers had crap years too, this is all common knowledge, no street cred to be gained regurgitating the same old tripe, so lets leave it out aye.
Way less maintanence over once a month crap with Boxxers and 40s, sure Doradoes aren't any better. That's my main reason for wanting to give the 888s a whirl. The ones I've ridden felt good so they seemed like the best option. Wanted to be sure.
So 888s don't have as good low speed compression control. Please be more acurate. and yeah, orifice rebound's a bit lame, but does seem to work well enough.
 
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Mo(n)arch

Turbo Monkey
Dec 27, 2010
4,214
1,147
Italy/south Tyrol
Well I ride a 888 evo since about a year and am really happy with it. Before I bought it, I spent time on Boxxer Team and Race and a Totem. I couldn't figure out, how I could make this forks feel as I wanted to. Then I tested a 888 evo Ti and was very impressed. Really plush, doesn't dive in the steeps and creates a crazy amount of grip on the front wheel. The fork used also just the travel that was needed.
A friend of mine has a 40 on his bike and eventhough the fork feels plush and controlled, the fork uses too much of travel and pukes oil every 2 months.
I mean, if I buy a fork in this price range, do I want to have a service every couple of weeks and to change the seals every month?
So I think between forks that puke oil and/or have weird damping units (eventhough theoretically they HAVE superior damping units over an open bath system) and have to be maintained every few weeks, the new 888's have a really good package to offer. They feel really good, are light (evo ti), easy to maintain, low maintainance required and the best part of it: the bushings hold up now:weee:
 
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norbar

Turbo Monkey
Jun 7, 2007
9,665
385
Warsaw :/
So 888s don't have as good low speed compression control. Please be more acurate. and yeah, orifice rebound's a bit lame, but does seem to work well enough.
That's quite important in dh. I'm very curious to try the 2010+ zokes but the 05-07 I tried felt considerably worse than Foxes and Boxxers in the LSC department unless I used a lot of it in the zoke. Which is kinda fine as I like it that way for MOST of the tracks but sometimes I want to have an option of running less and all the 888s I tried feel strange with smaller amounts of LSC.
That + no dm mounts and them being a bit higher than other forks.

Still I like where they are going, maybe if I will have the chance to try a new zoke I might be convinced. Hope I get the chance this season though the often sevice intervals marz users always talk about (in case of other forks) don't bother me really.
 

no skid marks

Monkey
Jan 15, 2006
2,514
26
ACT Australia
That's quite important in dh. I'm very curious to try the 2010+ zokes but the 05-07 I tried felt considerably worse than Foxes and Boxxers in the LSC department unless I used a lot of it in the zoke. Which is kinda fine as I like it that way for MOST of the tracks but sometimes I want to have an option of running less and all the 888s I tried feel strange with smaller amounts of LSC.
That + no dm mounts and them being a bit higher than other forks.
The dampings different to the older 888s.
Not sure if they're still taller than 40s or Boxxers. Not having the dirrect mount standard does suck but.
 

captainspauldin

intrigued by a pole
May 14, 2007
1,171
95
Jersey Shore
So 888s don't have as good low speed compression control. Please be more acurate. and yeah, orifice rebound's a bit lame, but does seem to work well enough.
Forgive my ignorance, and somebody pls correct me if I'm wrong.. I felt like the few long-travel marzocchis I rode, seem to brake dive pretty bad, and I couldn't figure out how to dial it out. But again these were older Marzocchi(namely a '07 66 rc2x), and I didn't spend a lot of time with it.
 

no skid marks

Monkey
Jan 15, 2006
2,514
26
ACT Australia
Forgive my ignorance, and somebody pls correct me if I'm wrong.. I felt like the few long-travel marzocchis I rode, seem to brake dive pretty bad, and I couldn't figure out how to dial it out. But again these were older Marzocchi(namely a '07 66 rc2x), and I didn't spend a lot of time with it.
You can control the ride height on the new 888s a lot better.
I'm asking about the 2010s+, not older 888s.
 

Mo(n)arch

Turbo Monkey
Dec 27, 2010
4,214
1,147
Italy/south Tyrol
Not sure if they're still taller than 40s or Boxxers
Unfortunately they are:581mm. Weight 2990g for the EVO ti. How tall are the Boxxers? 564mm if I remember right?
As I said before, they don't dive in the steeps or under braking and don't wallow like the old ones.
 
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norbar

Turbo Monkey
Jun 7, 2007
9,665
385
Warsaw :/
Unfortunately they are:581mm. Weight 2990g for the EVO ti. How tall are the Boxxers? 564mm if I remember right?
As I said before, they don't dive in the steeps or under braking and don't wallow like the old ones.
570mm.

As for the brake dive - yeah. That was a bit of a problem. They have a long history of it so people are a bit hessitant though for 95% of the riders the only reson no to ride marz is poor marketing.
 
None of the top guys in recent years were running it
08/09 had issues and the ata on top of that so oe and retail shy'd away
weights were heavier than the other top tier forks
brake dive I think may play a small role combined with a couple of other items (stack height etc...) like it which could turn a few more away combined
was looked at predominentley as a freeride fork not a race fork aside of barel and a couple of others way back when
bad advertising with vampire hotties vs. champions (I think the marketing lacks a bit as well)

The new stuff is good and I see more and more of them popping up and, they just had a combination of things that will take a little bit to get oe and market share back.
 
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jonKranked

Press Button, Receive Stupid
Nov 10, 2005
57,618
5,889
media blackout
Your livin in the past man. Hence why I said 2010-11. Boxxers had crap years too, this is all common knowledge, no street cred to be gained regurgitating the same old tripe,
Yea, and it took time for Rock Shox to regain its reputation after those crap years. Just like its gonna take time for Marz to regain their reputation.
 

bizutch

Delicate CUSTOM flower
Dec 11, 2001
15,922
8
Over your shoulder whispering
Trust is my issue. My buddies witnessed me do 1 single race run at Massanutten on a brand new 888 Air that had jsut been sent back to me from the factory FIXED, mind you.

What was fixed you say? Well, the fork would wind the dial down in it's travel to 6 inches halfway down a 3 minute run and stay. And the air cartridge would seize at the same time.

When it came back fixed, it did the exact same thing. I was a sad panda. Some guy who swore he knew the secret to fixing it bought it from me and I never heard from him again. Ask him what he thinks. :D
 

IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
24,554
488
Im over here now
what about Rock Shox?
they are still shipping Boxxers without oil
wasn't there enough time to solve this problem?
people seemed to think that was okay since it was a "race" fork :think:


Trust is my issue. My buddies witnessed me do 1 single race run at Massanutten on a brand new 888 Air that had jsut been sent back to me from the factory FIXED, mind you.

What was fixed you say? Well, the fork would wind the dial down in it's travel to 6 inches halfway down a 3 minute run and stay. And the air cartridge would seize at the same time.

When it came back fixed, it did the exact same thing. I was a sad panda. Some guy who swore he knew the secret to fixing it bought it from me and I never heard from him again. Ask him what he thinks. :D
i had the same thing happen to me 3 times with my ATA, so i was really hesitant to get the Evo Ti.....now i wont ride anything else. i HATED my 40 and also dislike the Boxxers
 
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Mo(n)arch

Turbo Monkey
Dec 27, 2010
4,214
1,147
Italy/south Tyrol
@bizutch:
You can't compare the Ata s**t with the new evo's. They are simply better.
They have for sure problems with marketing, but they are making the right steps now.

I think the reason they are not on any top guy's bike is, that they have not the budget like the sram group or shimano and fox. And look at the race circuit: There are the sram guys and there are the fox/shimano guys.
I think that is another reason, why we don't see Marzocchi complete bikes either:
No one wants to buy the same bike as the top race guys with "slower" parts...
 
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Mo(n)arch

Turbo Monkey
Dec 27, 2010
4,214
1,147
Italy/south Tyrol
the CRC team ran a full Marz setup last year and is using their forks again this year (with a CCDB shock)
True, but I think, if you are the biggest online shop in the bike buisness and you have a downhill team, you are almost free to take any part you want.:rolleyes:
Suspensionwise CRC are definitely well equipped:thumb:

But I also think, guys like Hill will always have the biggest companys behind them.
Why? Because they have the biggest paycheck. And the best support.
 

IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
24,554
488
Im over here now
True, but I think, if you are the biggest online shop in the bike buisness and you have a downhill team, you are almost free to take any part you want.:rolleyes:
Suspensionwise CRC are definitely well equipped:thumb:
if that was the case, then they still picked Marzocchi products
 

DirtyMike

Turbo Fluffer
Aug 8, 2005
14,307
894
My own world inside my head
Didnt read any post, this was probably already posted


Marz's decisions that were made in 08 09.

Weigh

Custom tunability.


Up until now, only custom tuning you could do on a marz form was change oil weight. The 08 and 09 forks all took amrs name threw the mud, deeply through the mud.

Anything prior to 08 and 09 that were dependable.... they were heavier. Worked great, but heavier... I myself still run my o7 marz fork....

Now with the new evo that is out, its lighter, its tunable, and its dependable... but its costly. They have only been out for a yearish now, and most of us cant run out and buy new product, alot of folks got onto boxxer's or 40's and they work, they have been reliable, so they find no reason to go spend a grand or better on a new fork.

Now that they have been out, I belive we will start seeing more folks going back to Marz. Mainly because those who can and do go and get new product every year are selling off last years product at discounted pricing....
 

S.K.C.

Turbo Monkey
Feb 28, 2005
4,104
25
Pa. / North Jersey
Yup - like what Rice was saying above, the new 2010 - 2011 MY 888's seem to be MUCH improved over the awful 08-09 forks.

I'd say consumer confidence is the major issue when it comes to who is running what (non WC elite riders - i.e.: the masses).

The same thing happened with RS a while back but to a much larger degree. Then SRAM purchased them, redesigned the Boxxer, and users who took the risk began to respond with positive word of mouth. I'm not saying SRAM-Boxxers are perfect, but they are a HUGE improvement over the pre-SRAM era.

Since CRC is running 888's for WC's I'd say the forks are clearly DH-race worthy. The only problem right now is that Marz needs some podiums to solidify the new 888 race-cred. Recall that when Barel was on Kona, he was running the old 04-06 888's and people couldn't believe it b/c up until that point Marz's corp image was primarily freeriding. As previously mentioned, back in those days freeriding meant throwing yourself off the edge of a building. Granted he was running custom internals and config's (like just using a damper in one leg) but having such a high profile podium rider helped them get pointed in the right direction. THEN the crappy 07 ATA reared its ugly head followed by the Tenneco buyout and change to different fork internals (no more NOK seals, etc) giving us the craptacular 08-09 888's. So it was 1 step forward and 2 steps back for Marz.

Today, NOK seals are back in the 888's AND for the first time ever you can actually tune the damn shim stacks. Give em' some time and good things will happen once they get more product out there.
 
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Mo(n)arch

Turbo Monkey
Dec 27, 2010
4,214
1,147
Italy/south Tyrol
if that was the case, then they still picked Marzocchi products

It's possible, that the nukeproof frame runs better with the double barrel. So it's possible, that they picked up a new rear suspension sponsor for this season. And in the front they are happy with the 888.
For me this change looks like they are free to pick any part they want and don't have to work with just one company.
 
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Wa-Aw

Monkey
Jul 30, 2010
354
0
Philippines
Your livin in the past man. Hence why I said 2010-11. Boxxers had crap years too, this is all common knowledge, no street cred to be gained regurgitating the same old tripe, so lets leave it out aye.
Way less maintanence over once a month crap with Boxxers and 40s, sure Doradoes aren't any better. That's my main reason for wanting to give the 888s a whirl. The ones I've ridden felt good so they seemed like the best option. Wanted to be sure.
So 888s don't have as good low speed compression control. Please be more acurate. and yeah, orifice rebound's a bit lame, but does seem to work well enough.
Correct me if I'm mistaken but I kinda thought long maintenance intervals were also a strength of the Dorado...

As for the Marz, apart from the weight, the height and the lack of yaw...I think it's just down to the times, poor marketing and just the looks of the fork. Marzocchi was always the freeride fork to go to. Big mountain freeride bikes aren't popular anymore. People do big mountain on downhill race bikes now and people have seen in movies that Boxxers and 40's can actually be ridden when they aren't between the tape.
And (I think this is extremely important to DH'ers and is the biggest deciding factor in most high end bike part choices), although the fork looks bad ass, it just doesn't have that same modern, fast and flash look that it's competition has.

Going to get flamed for this but, structural failure. Rampage was really bad for their cred. I was also surprised to know that it's not just been there. Friend from NZ told me that over the recent series there have been whispers of broken 888 Ti's.
 

IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
24,554
488
Im over here now
Going to get flamed for this but, structural failure. Rampage was really bad for their cred. I was also surprised to know that it's not just been there. Friend from NZ told me that over the recent series there have been whispers of broken 888 Ti's.
why, because one broke? ive seen more broken Boxxers more than i have 888's
 

Mo(n)arch

Turbo Monkey
Dec 27, 2010
4,214
1,147
Italy/south Tyrol
why, because one broke? ive seen more broken Boxxers more than i have 888's
It' a really difficult subject. Marzocchi had kind of a comeback year 2010. Everybody was vieweing, if the new models can keep up with the other forks on the market. So they already had a hard start with two terrible years behind them. And then, they go in an event, where Marzocchi HAS to stand out with performance, the Rampage. Results: 2 forks snapped and one bend. Marzocchi is known for bombproof forks and now they are snapping? Well, that's for sure not the coverage Marzocchi was after...:shocked:

And for Rock Shox? Well, these forks snap as well and a lot of them feel crappy, but these are "race forks" and the people tolerate it.:think:

It's all about marketing I think. But time will tell.I think the new 888's are a win for everyone, who decides to have one.
 

Raingauge

Monkey
Apr 3, 2008
692
0
Canadia
I rode a 2010 EVo Ti for a weekend on my bike. It was smooth but the brake dive was unreal; that plus the lack of an actual service manual keeps me away from them.
 

Banga

Monkey
Sep 7, 2001
361
3
Wellington, New Zealand
Going to get flamed for this but, structural failure. Rampage was really bad for their cred. I was also surprised to know that it's not just been there. Friend from NZ told me that over the recent series there have been whispers of broken 888 Ti's.
Your friend should have whispered the whole story, the guy who broke his 888smashed it into a tree doing about 40kph. He also broke a 40 the weekend before.
 

bizutch

Delicate CUSTOM flower
Dec 11, 2001
15,922
8
Over your shoulder whispering
This is aimed at no one comment in particular, but never mistake a good product for what may just be a very busy and intelligent mechanic.

At many points in time, forks were only as good as the team mechanic and the time/effort/spare parts he had access to. Just because a certain rider wins on a certain fork...that doesn't mean it will hold up for anybody else.

Mechanics for World Cuppers and tech support make/break suspension on the big stage. The fork a fully sponsored pro runs has little to do with what the consumer gets.