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Why are they called clipless???

BikeGeek

BrewMonkey
Jul 2, 2001
4,574
274
Hershey, PA
Toe-clips, sometimes called cages, used to be all the rage. The so-called "clipless" pedals, which require you to "clip in" were seen as an improvement because they were toe-clipless.

Why is the drivetrain on the right-hand side of the bike?
 

BikeGeek

BrewMonkey
Jul 2, 2001
4,574
274
Hershey, PA
Originally posted by novascotian
thank you for clearing that up
i assume cuz the majority of the population is right handed? lol...i dunno
I don't know either, but I've thought about building a singlespeed with the everything on the left. :D

Welcome to Ridemonkey
 

stumpy

Chimp
Oct 29, 2003
15
0
Atlanta
Originally posted by BikeGeek

Why is the drivetrain on the right-hand side of the bike?
Is the drivetrain on the left side of the bike in England? :)

Are the left and right brake levers on the opposite sides of the handlebar (ie. the rear brake lever on the left handlebar instead of the right handlebar and vise versa) in countries that drive on the left side of the road.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,928
8,094
Originally posted by stumpy
Is the drivetrain on the left side of the bike in England? :)

Are the left and right brake levers on the opposite sides of the handlebar (ie. the rear brake lever on the left handlebar instead of the right handlebar and vise versa) in countries that drive on the left side of the road.
no, and generally yes. (speaking from japan experience, where one is supposed to drive on the left side and brakes are set up motorcycle style)

this is not a typical japanese bike :D but may be the wave of the future:

 

RhinofromWA

Brevity R Us
Aug 16, 2001
4,622
0
Lynnwood, WA
Originally posted by Toshi
no, and generally yes. (speaking from japan experience, where one is supposed to drive on the left side and brakes are set up motorcycle style)

this is not a typical japanese bike :D but may be the wave of the future:

What is that brake thingy on teh seat stays? the pic looks like something is going through the spokes. :confused:
 

Skookum

bikey's is cool
Jul 26, 2002
10,184
0
in a bear cave
Originally posted by BikeGeek

Why is the drivetrain on the right-hand side of the bike?
this is a great thread.:D I don't know either but i'd like to venture a guess. i'd like to propose a theory that the decision came from which side a kickstand would be more appropriate for a bike. Standing on the left side of a bike it would be easier to engage and disengage the kickstand with your right foot, which i'm assuming more people would be comfortable using.
Personally myself i haven't had a kickstand since 1982 and i'm left footed, and i my left eye is a little lazy too, and i have a leg shorter than the other, which leaves me to conclude i'm probably correct.:monkey: :)
 

BigMike

BrokenbikeMike
Jul 29, 2003
8,931
0
Montgomery county MD
What the hell is that bike? I WANT ONE!

and odviously, the drivtrain is on the right side because it would get conversations like this started :)

and about the brakes, I ocassionaly ride with a guy from Wales who rides trials, and his bike is set up so the back brake is left, and the front brake is right. I asked him why, and in his Walesy accent he said "you stupid Americans mess everything up. Us in the rest of the world keep it like a motorcycle. " I was tempted to then ask him why he didnt have his rear brake down by his right foot. Which brings up another question......

Why on a motorcycle is the BRAKE always on the right side, and the SHIFTER is on the left? Would'nt the shifter corrolate with the drivetrain moreso than the brake? So really, why is the drivetrain on the right on a bike? We Americans do screw stuff up!

sorry that this is a nonsense ramble :)
 

RhinofromWA

Brevity R Us
Aug 16, 2001
4,622
0
Lynnwood, WA
Originally posted by BigMike
What the hell is that bike? I WANT ONE!

and odviously, the drivtrain is on the right side because it would get conversations like this started :)

and about the brakes, I ocassionaly ride with a guy from Wales who rides trials, and his bike is set up so the back brake is left, and the front brake is right. I asked him why, and in his Walesy accent he said "you stupid Americans mess everything up. Us in the rest of the world keep it like a motorcycle. " I was tempted to then ask him why he didnt have his rear brake down by his right foot. Which brings up another question......

Why on a motorcycle is the BRAKE always on the right side, and the SHIFTER is on the left? Would'nt the shifter corrolate with the drivetrain moreso than the brake? So really, why is the drivetrain on the right on a bike? We Americans do screw stuff up!

sorry that this is a nonsense ramble :)
Well try and clutch a motorcycle with your foot. (BTW my fathers late 40's Indian cheif is that way....and more non-US Style but that is another thread)

The clutch is opposite the front brake as it is also a control that can better be utilized by a hands ability to finess control. Rear brake can be hammered with better results than a front brake. I contest that the rear brake on MTB was put on the left hand because generally our right hands have more strength compared to the left hand. Allowing increased control.

The shifter has no need to be on one side or the other. The world has seemed to settle on the right side rear brake left side shifter. (My dads shifter is on the gas tank.....) The drivetrain is under the cylinder on a motorcycle..... not one side or another to any great degree. Finall drive on a motorcycle is generally on the left side, but can be found on either.

I am using dirt bikes mostly so I know the world of street can be vastly different. :D

Antique Indian Motorcycles: (Ex: 36 Indian Scout and 48 Indian Cheif)

Gas, left hand
Timing adj, right hand
Clutch, left foot
Rear brake, right foot
Shifter, tank mount (right side)

How is that for screwed up? :D
 

BigMike

BrokenbikeMike
Jul 29, 2003
8,931
0
Montgomery county MD
Originally posted by RhinofromWA

Antique Indian Motorcycles: (Ex: 36 Indian Scout and 48 Indian Cheif)

Gas, left hand
Timing adj, right hand
Clutch, left foot
Rear brake, right foot
Shifter, tank mount (right side)

How is that for screwed up? :D
That would confuse me waaaay to much.

Here is a another question that would go well in this thread: Why is the rotor always on the left? is it to balance out the drivtrain on the right?
 

fonseca

Monkey
May 2, 2002
292
0
Virginia
I love the idea of the shaft drive for bikes, but I don't think we'll be using them any time soon. They are extremely inefficient, whereas a chain is about as close to 100% efficiency as we can get.

I always thought about doing a singlespeed with the drivetrain on the left too, just to freak people out. I think rotors and drivetrains are on the sides they are on simply because someone had to pick a side, and everyone else followed suit to conform. But I have seen some photos of old suspension forks with rotors on the right side. But if the drivetrain is on the right, then the rear rotor has to be on the left.
 

Motionboy2

Calendar Dominator
Apr 23, 2002
1,800
0
Broomfield, Colorado
Originally posted by RhinofromWA
(BTW my fathers late 40's Indian cheif is that way....and more non-US Style but that is another thread)
Hmmm, I really don't think it is another thread. I say GO for it! :D

Some BMX riders have their drivetrain on the left. I don't know how that works with hub/freewheel selection, but it can be done.
 

crashing_sux

Monkey
Jul 17, 2002
311
0
Vancouver, WA
It's my understand that the control placement is legally mandated. Like the Indian previously mentioned both bikes and motorcycles used to have controls in many different places which led to accidents and confusion. Someone got the bright idea to mandate control placement but unfortunately bikes and motorcycles were done at different times and obviously nobody bothered to actually think when they did it so now you can't sell a bike in the US with front brake anywhere else but on the left hand side and you can't sell a motorcycle with the front brake anywhere but on the right hand side.

The left-right front brake issue is as annoying as the press down to downshift and press up to upshift on motorcycles, just about anyone who races reverses the shift pattern.
 

BigMike

BrokenbikeMike
Jul 29, 2003
8,931
0
Montgomery county MD
Originally posted by crashing_sux
It's my understand that the control placement is legally mandated. Like the Indian previously mentioned both bikes and motorcycles used to have controls in many different places which led to accidents and confusion. Someone got the bright idea to mandate control placement but unfortunately bikes and motorcycles were done at different times and obviously nobody bothered to actually think when they did it so now you can't sell a bike in the US with front brake anywhere else but on the left hand side and you can't sell a motorcycle with the front brake anywhere but on the right hand side.

The left-right front brake issue is as annoying as the press down to downshift and press up to upshift on motorcycles, just about anyone who races reverses the shift pattern.
So if I put my front brake on the right, can I get arrested :)

Thats interesting about racers. I was talking to one guy who races about the "half shift" for neutural, why they didnt just put it all the way at the bottom, and he said it was so that if he is racing, and drops his bike on a corner or somthing, he can hop back on, slam his foot down a few times, and go. If it was reversed, that goes against his theory :confused:
 

crashing_sux

Monkey
Jul 17, 2002
311
0
Vancouver, WA
Originally posted by BigMike
So if I put my front brake on the right, can I get arrested :)

Thats interesting about racers. I was talking to one guy who races about the "half shift" for neutural, why they didnt just put it all the way at the bottom, and he said it was so that if he is racing, and drops his bike on a corner or somthing, he can hop back on, slam his foot down a few times, and go. If it was reversed, that goes against his theory :confused:
You're safe. It's like cutting that tag off your mattress that says "Do not remove under penalty of law" on it. The law only applies to retailers.

They hide neutral in between first and second so you will never accidentally reach it when riding. A lot of people lose track of what gear they are in, you'd hate to accidentally try to downshift below first and hit neutral then try to power out of a corner.

Reversing the shift pattern for racing is done for two reasons. First, your foot is much stronger and faster pushing down than pulling up, the upshift is a more important shift to make quickly, and it is made under power with no clutch used. With the downshifts you aren't in much of a hurry, you have as much time as it takes to slow down to drop gears, on the upshifts you quickly drop away from full throttle, like from 100% to 90%, back to 100% as quickly as you can and shift at that moment, having your foot be faster and stronger helps prevent missed shifts.

The second reason for reverse pattern shifting is that as you are accellerating out of a right hand corner you are hanging off the bike quite a bit. If you can pull your left leg up higher on the bike you can hang off the right side more. You can get your left leg a few inches higher and still shift if you only have to tap down on the shifter to upshift, instead of actually getting your toes below the shifter and pulling up.

The theory that guy gave you about dropping the bike is pure BS. Neutral makes no difference when you drop the bike. The bike doesn't magically shift itself into neutral just because you crashed it, and it doesn't need to be in neutral to start, so what difference would it make? If you drop the bike you run your arse back over to it, if it's still running like it is 90% of the time you grab the clutch, pick it up, drop a few gears and take off. If it died you grab the clutch, pick it up, bump the starter, drop a few gears and take off. Where you have your neutral doesn't affect this in any way.
 

BigMike

BrokenbikeMike
Jul 29, 2003
8,931
0
Montgomery county MD
OK, maybe I didnt explain correctly..... lets try again. Lets say I'm racing, and drop my bike. I was in 3rd going around a corner when I did it. IF I had neutural all the way at the bottom, When I got back on my bike, I would have to slam my foot down twice, no more. If I did it any more, I would go into N.

Now lets say, same scenario, but I have neutural where it usually is. I get back on my bike, dont remember what gear I was in when I fell, I can just slam my foot down 3,4,5, however many times I want, i'll still be in first. Then I can just take off.

Now, if they were reveresed, the same is true, just take your foot up a bunch of times. seems like a little bit more of a pain in the ass, but, whateva.


Now, lets remember, I dont race, and the only bikes I have dont have motors, and have way more than 5 gears. You sound like you know your stuff MUCH better than I do, I'm just sharing with you what I have heard from others. :)
 

crashing_sux

Monkey
Jul 17, 2002
311
0
Vancouver, WA
Originally posted by BigMike
OK, maybe I didnt explain correctly..... lets try again. Lets say I'm racing, and drop my bike. I was in 3rd going around a corner when I did it. IF I had neutural all the way at the bottom, When I got back on my bike, I would have to slam my foot down twice, no more. If I did it any more, I would go into N.

Now lets say, same scenario, but I have neutural where it usually is. I get back on my bike, dont remember what gear I was in when I fell, I can just slam my foot down 3,4,5, however many times I want, i'll still be in first. Then I can just take off.

Now, if they were reveresed, the same is true, just take your foot up a bunch of times. seems like a little bit more of a pain in the ass, but, whateva.


Now, lets remember, I dont race, and the only bikes I have dont have motors, and have way more than 5 gears. You sound like you know your stuff MUCH better than I do, I'm just sharing with you what I have heard from others. :)
Gotcha. That's much closer to why they actually put it in there, so you can't accidentally hit neutral. It's not just when you crash though, it's the fact that if you ride a motorcycle sooner or later you will be in top gear and try to upshift one more, and you will eventually be in first and try to downshift one more. As long as there isn't a neutral sitting below your first it won't be an issue.
 
Regarding the shaft drive bike pictured earlier. This technology is anything but new. There have been multispeed shaft drive bikes around since way before I was born. They seem to be mostly found in Europe. I had one in my old shop for repairs about 10 years ago. It had to be from the 50's or 60's. Had rod brakes and was built to stay on the ground. Rugged, smooth, but what a boat anchor. And if memory serves, it was only a one speed. Which I guess is ok for those of the Single speed mindset.
 

RhinofromWA

Brevity R Us
Aug 16, 2001
4,622
0
Lynnwood, WA
Originally posted by BigMike
That would confuse me waaaay to much.

Here is a another question that would go well in this thread: Why is the rotor always on the left? is it to balance out the drivtrain on the right?
Wow missed this question. :D

Well if we are talking MTB's then disks are a relatively recent event and since our drivetrain has been standardized to sit on the right side of the bike, the logical place to mount the rear brake is on the left. Now front brakes I don't think there is much difference. 1997-98ish Marz Z-1's came with disk mounts on both sides and I remember seeing bikes with dual front disks. :d that would be cool.

On motorbikes (dirt bikes anyway) there are a few observations I have made.

1) kickstarters (except for some european bikes) are found on the right side. Generally that means the oposite side (left) is used for the clutch and final drive. The drive side being the left.

2) before disk brakes on dirt bikes we had drum brakes and the most direct way to the rear wheel was from the (std I guess) right side foot brake lever. My fathers old Maico had a left side kickstarter and a right side drive w/ the rear drum also on the drive side.....you could have designed a way to transfer the brake rod to the left side but I don't think to many did.

Most modern dirt bikes are right side (if at all...ie electric start) kickstarting, left side final drive, so the logical position available on a modern bike is the right side rear wheel.

Interestingly enough I don't know of many dirt bikes with a front disk brake on the right side. :think: You always find them on the left.......don't supposed it makes much difference. No reason to change and everyone sticks with the left.......:think: scratch that! It is easier to route a front brake line to the left rotor.....it is on MTB too if you run motostyle. Less kinks in the line and I bet when they were using cable actuated drum brakes that was a bigger issue. So maybe that is why dirt bike front rotors are on the left. Since the brake lever is on the right hand I guess left rotor makes sense. :D
 

RhinofromWA

Brevity R Us
Aug 16, 2001
4,622
0
Lynnwood, WA
Originally posted by crashing_sux
Gotcha. That's much closer to why they actually put it in there, so you can't accidentally hit neutral. It's not just when you crash though, it's the fact that if you ride a motorcycle sooner or later you will be in top gear and try to upshift one more, and you will eventually be in first and try to downshift one more. As long as there isn't a neutral sitting below your first it won't be an issue.
:D

I would hate to grab nuetral flat out on a dirt bike thinking I had another gear to shift up into..........

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeen *rhino going over the bars as his bikes front end settles into a bunch of gnarly whoops because he wanted to go faster.* tumbletumbletumbletumbletumbletumbletumbletumbletumbletumbletumbletumbletumble, tumble. :)

Or grap another gear for a jump and boom you are coasting off the face. LOL!

I will like to keep it difficult to find please....so I can get there only when I really want to.

Rhino