[binary visions]

Speaking of splines, does anyone else think the whole splined rotor setup on the new Shimano hubs is really slick?

I mean, yeah, it sucks that it's proprietary stuff, and no, there's not really anything wrong with 5-bolt, but it's a pretty nifty little setup they've got there.

 

[w00dy]

F that spline S in the A!!!

I want at least 6 holes and a bolt through each one on every part of my bike. YEAH NICOLAI!!

 

[Msisle Dad]

many of these ideas sound great on paper, i've come up with the headset threaded into the frame but not everything on paper works as it's supposed to(COMMUNISM)

Morgan

 

[Chutney]

Why? I just don't see it. Threaded headsets can come loose like anything else. Is it really that hard to tighten your threadless headset? Loosen stem. Tighten top cap. Tighten stem. Done.

With threaded headsets, you just have the extra step of tightening the headset itself. To what gain? So you can have another set of threads on your bike to cross-thread and/or sieze if improperly installed/taken care of?

I think that you misunderstand what he wrote. The fork will still be threadless, ie you still tighten it the same way. Difference is only that the races thread onto the frame, instead of having to be pressed in.

Sounds a little sketchy to me. Would the threads be strong enough cosidering the huge lever that the fork is? What about unthreading whil ridint? It would not be so good to have the headset race detatch from the frame while riding....Seems like you would need some sort of lock nut system to make it work. Never having presssed in a headset I dont really know how hard it is, but it doesnt seem like that much of a big deal...

Jon

 

[Chutney]

On a seperate note:

I kinda like the idea of a pedal that bolts on to the crank arm. Not splined, just smooth. Sure, you have smaller threads, but it would be steel bolting onto steel. Also, seems like it would be less likely to crossthread because you dont have to deal with getting the pedal positioned just right, and if you do strip/cross thread you are just out a 50 dollar pedal, not a 200 dollar crank set.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, its a new standard that will never be adopted - just shooting the wind.

 

[binary visions]

I think that you misunderstand what he wrote. The fork will still be threadless, ie you still tighten it the same way. Difference is only that the races thread onto the frame, instead of having to be pressed in.

Sounds a little sketchy to me. Would the threads be strong enough cosidering the huge lever that the fork is? What about unthreading whil ridint? It would not be so good to have the headset race detatch from the frame while riding....Seems like you would need some sort of lock nut system to make it work. Never having presssed in a headset I dont really know how hard it is, but it doesnt seem like that much of a big deal...

Jon

No, I think I understood what he wrote. They're actually cups that thread into the frame (not races). I'm saying that threadless headsets are brain-dead easy to tighten, whereas threaded ones would require and extra wrench and an extra step (how can you tighten the headset the same way? You'd preload the bearings the same way but crunching the stem down on the headset no longer tightens the cups if its threaded). And, again, the threads are just another thing that someone can foul up if they're not careful. All for what gain?

In theory, with the stem clamping down the headset, the cups would never come unthreaded from the frame. Pressing in a headset shouldn't need to be a common thing with frames, and it's pretty easy with the right tools.

 

[Chutney]

No, I think I understood what he wrote. They're actually cups that thread into the frame (not races). I'm saying that threadless headsets are brain-dead easy to tighten, whereas threaded ones would require and extra wrench and an extra step (how can you tighten the headset the same way? You'd preload the bearings the same way but crunching the stem down on the headset no longer tightens the cups if its threaded). And, again, the threads are just another thing that someone can foul up if they're not careful. All for what gain?

In theory, with the stem clamping down the headset, the cups would never come unthreaded from the frame. Pressing in a headset shouldn't need to be a common thing with frames, and it's pretty easy with the right tools.

Sorry, I meant cups - been here at work since 430 and the caffeine is starting to ebb.

Like I said Ive never really worked with headsets past tightening them and switching forks. So as you crank down the stem on a threadless headset it actually tightens the cups in the frame? (ie, pushing the cups deaper into the headtube?) Guess that makes sense but I had never realized that before.

I appologize, for my kung-fu is weak.

Jon

 

[buildyourown]

As for the headset threading into the frame, the threads would create stress risers so the wall thickness of the headtube would have to be thicker to compensate.

As for pedals that bolt in from the back. I think the smooth bore would be prone to ovalization unless you made it tapered like tie rod ends on a truck. That would be mo' money. I think we should leave well enough alone on these 2 issues. They both work great if your not an idiot.

 

[Chutney]

As for the headset threading into the frame, the threads would create stress risers so the wall thickness of the headtube would have to be thicker to compensate.

As for pedals that bolt in from the back. I think the smooth bore would be prone to ovalization unless you made it tapered like tie rod ends on a truck. That would be mo' money. I think we should leave well enough alone on these 2 issues. They both work great if your not an idiot.

Agreed on both counts - just trying to make the 12 hour work day pass a little faster.

 

[binary visions]

Sorry, I meant cups - been here at work since 430 and the caffeine is starting to ebb.

Like I said Ive never really worked with headsets past tightening them and switching forks. So as you crank down the stem on a threadless headset it actually tightens the cups in the frame? (ie, pushing the cups deaper into the headtube?) Guess that makes sense but I had never realized that before.

Aye, I definitly understand your caffine deficit.

You shouldn't install a headset like that, but if your headset is working itself loose you can tighten everything up by just torquing down on the stem a little, then backing off to the normal torque.

 

[OGRipper]

Chutney and Binary are having a communication breakdown...

Chutney, unless a headset is not pressed in correctly or the headtube is messed up or something, once headset cups are pressed in they don't move until you remove them. They don't compress any further when you tighten your headset, if it's done right they are pressed all the way to the frame.

In theory you could build a threaded headtube that takes a threaded headset cup. Instead of pressing the cup all the way you would just screw it in all the way. Either way if everything is right the cups would be smacking up against the headtube with no ability to compress further, and either way you would have the current threadless steer tubes for adjusting your headset, installing your fork/stem, etc.

One of the engineers needs to weigh in on whether a proper press fit is stronger than something threaded, but I suspect you'd have a lot of issues with the tolerances and strength of the threads, especially with aluminum headsets, and it adds complexity to something that works pretty well - personally I haven't had one issue with a headset since the threadless stuff came out however long ago that was, and I would think the chances of ovalization would be pretty much the same, if not greater with a threaded design since you'd be cutting into the tube...

 

[SlackBoy]

And if a threaded headset cup/race came undone it wouldn't get loose, it would get tight