[narlus]

We have had this discussion before. .

those posts were lost in the tragic server meltdown of '05

I favor a more process oriented approach to environmental protection. A methodology that will conserve the natural rescources w/o sacrificing commerce by imposing sweeping change.

that's about as vague a statement as a miss america contest winner's response for the final question.

I would be in favor of something similar to Kyoto if the two fastest growing industrial countries (India & China) were to be a part of it as well.

that would be ideal, but if faced w/ the choice of poisoining yr country vs economic benefit, do you prefer the 2nd regardless of what the competition is doing?

 

[Changleen]

If we (as a species) were not so nationalistic and petty, maybe we could share a bit more and help less developed economies develop a little faster, which would in the long run be better for everyone in lots of ways.

Many social studies show that most conflict is caused by inequality. This applies on every scale from your block to the world. Reduce inequality and conflict is reduced. All it takes is for the short sighted greedy ****ers who seem to be be in charge these days to be removed and a more long term view to be taken by most of the world. I note China and Japan, some of the oldest nations on Earth, are well known for looking at things in the long term. I wonder if there is any connection?

 

[fluff]

If we (as a species) were not so nationalistic and petty, maybe we could share a bit more and help less developed economies develop a little faster, which would in the long run be better for everyone in lots of ways.

Many social studies show that most conflict is caused by inequality. This applies on every scale from your block to the world. Reduce inequality and conflict is reduced. All it takes is for the short sighted greedy ****ers who seem to be be in charge these days to be removed and a more long term view to be taken by most of the world. I note China and Japan, some of the oldest nations on Earth, are well known for looking at things in the long term. I wonder if there is any connection?

An excellent idea with two minor flaws; one - it seems that 95% of the human race is greedy so we just get more greedy ****ers in charge anyway, and two - it seems that 95% of the human race is greedy so we just get more greedy ****ers in charge anyway.

I know that technically that's just one flaw but I thought it was such a big one that it was worth mentioning twice.

 

[Westy]

It's odd but the Honda Legend (which was US-built) acquired a reputation for poor build quality in the UK

I have been to most Auto plants in the US, at least those plants that do machining. From the outside looking in the Honda plant was not that impressive. They seemed to be using 30 year old machines that had been recycled from their Japanese plants. I will give them this, they seemed to like hiring lovely well endowed young ladies and had thin white uniforms.ink:

The toyota plants I have been to were awe inspiring.

 

[Changleen]

An excellent idea with two minor flaws; one - it seems that 95% of the human race is greedy so we just get more greedy ****ers in charge anyway, and two - it seems that 95% of the human race is greedy so we just get more greedy ****ers in charge anyway.

I know that technically that's just one flaw but I thought it was such a big one that it was worth mentioning twice.

Thank you Mr. Adams.

So it comes down to the Blackadder solution no.3 then....

 

[Damn True]

If we (as a species) were not so nationalistic and petty, maybe we could share a bit more and help less developed economies develop a little faster, which would in the long run be better for everyone in lots of ways.

Many social studies show that most conflict is caused by inequality. This applies on every scale from your block to the world. Reduce inequality and conflict is reduced. All it takes is for the short sighted greedy ****ers who seem to be be in charge these days to be removed and a more long term view to be taken by most of the world. I note China and Japan, some of the oldest nations on Earth, are well known for looking at things in the long term. I wonder if there is any connection?

Thank you Mr. Marx. (I mean Karl, not Harpo)

 

[fluff]

I will give them this, they seemed to like hiring lovely well endowed young ladies and had thin white uniforms.ink:

That probably did more for quality problems than the 30 yr old machinery...

 

[fluff]

'Twas Red Dwarf.... </sigh>

 

[Changleen]

Thank you Mr. Marx. (I mean Karl, not Harpo)

Well, it's true isn't it? (Marx is pushing it though...)

What would be really great is if we applied rules to our capitalist societies that encouraged this behaviour a bit more. Then our best and brightest have the incentive to suceed not just for themselves but for humanity. Social enterprises. Some companies take this view already to a greater or lesser extent, we just need to get a few more people round to this way of thinking.

 

[Changleen]

'Twas Red Dwarf.... </sigh>

Naylor stole a lot of jokes from HHGTTG.

 

[Damn True]

Well, it's true isn't it? (Marx is pushing it though...)

What would be really great is if we applied rules to our capitalist societies that encouraged this behaviour a bit more. Then our best and brightest have the incentive to suceed not just for themselves but for humanity. Social enterprises. Some companies take this view already to a greater or lesser extent, we just need to get a few more people round to this way of thinking.

Ya think? How's that "Great Experiment" working out?

I understand your point, and the motivation for it is kind hearted and commendable. But entirely unrealistic.

 

[fluff]

Naylor stole a lot of jokes from HHGTTG.

True but not that particular line.

Have you read the Dirk Gently books?

 

[Changleen]

Ya think? How's that "Great Experiment" working out?

Seems to be working out pretty well for Google.

I understand your point, and the motivation for it is kind hearted and commendable. But entirely unrealistic.

Not entirely. If that was true, why bother doing anything? It is partly unrealistic, but nothing is absolute. Either way that's no excuse to stop encouraging the better aspects of civilisation and discouraging the bad.

"All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing"

 

[Changleen]

True but not that particular line.

Have you read the Dirk Gently books?

No, I couldn't get into them. I started 'Hollistic' but, mweh...

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

If we (as a species) were not so nationalistic and petty, maybe we could share a bit more and help less developed economies develop a little faster, which would in the long run be better for everyone in lots of ways.

Many social studies show that most conflict is caused by inequality. This applies on every scale from your block to the world. Reduce inequality and conflict is reduced. All it takes is for the short sighted greedy ****ers who seem to be be in charge these days to be removed and a more long term view to be taken by most of the world. I note China and Japan, some of the oldest nations on Earth, are well known for looking at things in the long term. I wonder if there is any connection?

nice, but wait.... how do you enforce "anti-greedyness" without, in a way or another, cutting back basic human rights????????

wouldnt forcing something like that contradictory?

 

[Changleen]

nice, but wait.... how do you enforce "anti-greedyness" without, in a way or another, cutting back basic human rights????????

wouldnt forcing something like that contradictory?

Good, well rounded education for everyone.

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

Alexis & Silver:

A company can move operations and employees from CA to AZ or TX, pay the employees the EXACT same wage and save 30% on their payroll costs (Payroll tax and Unemployment Insurance) alone, not to mention differential in Corporate taxation.

The savings involved in moving that same manufacturing to Mexico or Asia and paying a competitive wage there instead of anywhere in the US will be far far greater. Which is why your neihbors Chevy Truck was built in Mexico (well that and the UAW)

The largest expenditures for any company are payroll (actuall pay, taxes, unemployment ins. and health ins.) and real estate (debt load and property taxes). Both costs are monumentally decreased by manufacturing overseas.

am just wondering, not making an argument here..

are there import tariffs for cars in the US????
if there are.. wouldnt those tariffs (specially on expensive bimmers) be part of the equation and distort what would really happen on an ideal free market??

but not talking only about cars.. (which arent really as labor intensive as say, jeans, t-shirts)

i work for an outsourced company here.
i know what the wages where for the basic operators when the company was in california, and what are they now. and the reduction in labor costs is way more than 30%.
on average, operators in the US got paid 22000 a year. here they are making about 7000 a year for the same hours.

there is just no way you can make up that difference with tax cuts, unless you start subsidizing/dumping like with the farms.

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

Good, well rounded education for everyone.

what if education does not fix a-holeness for everyone?
what you do with the defective ones???

you gotta have in mind, that the more people give up on having an edge over the others... the bigger the incentive grows for the one to defect the first

 

[Changleen]

It's an impossible goal, but you gotta try for it as much as you can.

Maybe we could use GE or a drug like Soma.

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

And BMW's service for one (the only on I have experience of) is frickin superb. When you purchase one they really look after you. I was highly impressed.

how many bimmers sell a year in NZ??????

i can say the same about the mercedes dealer in Lima... but the fact they sell like 90 cars a year in the WHOLE country, kinda throws my generalization out the window.....

each mercedes buyer here, makes up more than 1% of their yearly market.. so they better treat you right.
lol

 

[Changleen]

I dunno. It seems there's quite a few on the road though.

Hey you should start a thread about your upcoming elections (April right?) and the left-isation of South America.

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

I dunno. It seems there's quite a few on the road though.

Hey you should start a thread about your upcoming elections (April right?) and the left-isation of South America.

yeah, i should. its messed up.

am not voting though.
my address from when i was in college is still registered as my voting address.... so am registered to vote in New Orleans or Atlanta, i dunno. (mandatory voting, and they waste thousands of dollars to open a booth everywhere there is a peruvian... way too waste money in a poor country!)

 

[Changleen]

Compulsory voting is a good idea though I think. Except for the idiots. IQ test then compulsory voting for those who make the grade.

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

Compulsory voting is a good idea though I think. Except for the idiots. IQ test then compulsory voting for those who make the grade.

compulsory voting SUCKS BALLS.
its one of those ideas, like communism, that sound nice on paper, but suck absolute balls in the real world.

the 2nd on the polls now is literally a neonazi who calls for the removal of citizenship of those peruvians "who do not have indian blood", deportation of jews, and whose brother 12 months ago, revolted in a little rural town killing like 8 cops. and nationalizations of everything and market controls, and sumary executions for "bretraying inca bloodline" or something like that.....

with compulsory voting you get the idiots voting for idiots like that.

i know, every story about peru and south america sounds like i make them up, but they are 100% true, you can double check that.

 

[MikeD]

Perfect example: McDonalds vs In-n-Out Burger.

McDonalds is cheap, but filthy, the food is lousy and they hire nearly unemployable people.
In-n-Out is more expensive, but squeaky clean, the food quality is an order of magnitude better and they hire hard working kids that are clean cut and can communicate with their customers.

In places where In-n-Out has located near a McDonalds In-n-Out absolutely KILLS McDonalds. Yet there are still some people who will go to McDonalds and endure filthy conditions, lousy food and lousy service to save 99 cents.

I don't even recall McD's being 99 cents cheaper...a #1 animal style with a large Coke is what, $5.39? A large-size combo with a deluxe sandwich is almost that at any big fast-food place.

In N Out, however, is retarding its own potential growth to maintain control over its standards and character...it's one business model among many, and it works well for them. I sure hope they don't abandon it, as much as I could use a double-double right now down here in the nasty papermill southern community in which I'm currently languishing. (Thankfully, I'll be back West by July...keep them in business until I return...)

I'd say they're committed to slow and healthy growth instead of risking becoming a cancerous body.

MD

Edit: Compulsory voting? Are you kidding me? If anything, you should have to take a test before you're given a ballot! (Not to sound unegalitatian or anything, but populist demogoguery isn't my bag, baby.)

 

[reflux]

Edit: Compulsory voting? Are you kidding me? If anything, you should have to take a test before you're given a ballot! (Not to sound unegalitatian or anything, but populist demogoguery isn't my bag, baby.)

Could you imagine what the test would be like?

Question 1: What was the main form of measurement used at the time of the building of Noah's Ark?

Wouldn't the reconstructionists love that isht?

 

[Damn True]

am just wondering, not making an argument here..

are there import tariffs for cars in the US????
if there are.. wouldnt those tariffs (specially on expensive bimmers) be part of the equation and distort what would really happen on an ideal free market??

but not talking only about cars.. (which arent really as labor intensive as say, jeans, t-shirts)

i work for an outsourced company here.
i know what the wages where for the basic operators when the company was in california, and what are they now. and the reduction in labor costs is way more than 30%.
on average, operators in the US got paid 22000 a year. here they are making about 7000 a year for the same hours.

there is just no way you can make up that difference with tax cuts, unless you start subsidizing/dumping like with the farms.

Depends on which country they are imported from, if they are passenger cars, light trucks or commercial vehicles (lots of wiggle room there), engine size etc. More variables than there is bandwidth to discuss.

One thing is that many (particularly Euro companies) have a VAT system that essentially reimburses the manufacturer for those costs and many others that a US auto manufacturer is not exposed to so when a $40k bimmer (hypothetical) hits the shore here it has cost BMW less to manufacuture than a similarly priced US made car (Caddy STS or something). The result is that BMW winds up with a higher margin. For high priced products like cars, there are more protections in place for US manufacturers but on the little stuff (pencils made in Lebanon vs Tenessee) those protections are not nearly as robust and the US manufacurer really takes it in the shorts.

 

[N8 v2.0]

Only N8 would think that the only reason people have to dislike Wal-Mart is because they blindly hate successful businesses

i'd say its not the only reason but its defiantly the primary one cited on the intrawebs...

 

[DavidMakalaster]

i'd say its not the only reason but its defiantly the primary one cited on the intrawebs...

uh no

They ruthlessly screw their supply businesses in pursuit of lower price. the often push them out of business pretty quickly. Often they will start carrying a product line. They will order twice what the company sells forcing them to raise production. While doing this they research production, contract people overseas to make the same thing cheaper, then dump the company. this leaves them with an impossible to sell amount of stock and a crippled distribution network. Look up the Vlasic pickle story for another example of a technique they use to screw people. They are predators.

They are bankrupting many state's healthcare systems. Alabama is an excelent example. Every state is subsidizing the healthcare of massive numbers of Wal-Wart employees. Long story short their healthcare is pitifully insufficient. They also are the largest employer of working poor in the country.

Wal-Mart is trying it's best to destroy America. I don't go there when I'm at home. On road trips though it's very hard to avoid them.

 

[LordOpie]

i'd say its not the only reason but its defiantly the primary one cited on the intrawebs...

Uhh, did it really take you 20 months to come up with a reply?

 

[Toshi]

They are bankrupting many state's healthcare systems. Alabama is an excelent example. Every state is subsidizing the healthcare of massive numbers of Wal-Wart employees. Long story short their healthcare is pitifully insufficient. They also are the largest employer of working poor in the country.

while i don't dispute the above points, is there any way to tell if your local, slightly- to much-more-expensive retailer is NOT screwing their employees over in the same way? i doubt most small businesses are providing their employees with health insurance benefits -- see the uprising and debacle of the 1993 (?) hillary rodham clinton health care plan, specifically the small business lobby's opposition, for ammunition.

 

[SPINTECK]

n8-

You should hate wal mart more than any of us because they are for socialized medicine. In fact they subsidize their payroll through socialized medicine by hiring employees on medicare and teaching the young families how to apply for CHIP's.

 

[BMXman]

I knew of number of people that were Walmart employees who have been treated like sh!t by Walmart...I'm thinking that may be part of the reason some people hate them so much....D

 

[H8R]

On road trips though it's very hard to avoid them.

No it's not. Plenty of mom and pop businesses on the side of the road if you look.

 

[SPINTECK]

Who do you think wants goods shipped directly to mexico from china and then delivered by mexican drivers throughout the us (besides every other big corporation)?? Wonder what that would do to the teamster union and the average wage of the middle class?? THe union docks in california??

 

[binary visions]

Flag on the play.

Personal foul, bumping a finished discussion. Ten post penalty and loss of custom title. First down.

 

[DaveW]

Mod's are twitchy today.... this could be fun.

*edit* I wonder if bumping this thread will bring DT back out of the woodwork?

 

[Changleen]

*edit* I wonder if bumping this thread will bring DT back out of the woodwork?

He came and went a few times. His last incarnation was practically centerist. It'd be good if he came back.

 

[N8 v2.0]

more reason to hate!!

http://money.cnn.com/2008/05/28/magazines/fortune/kapner_walmart.fortune/index.htm

With gas, grain, and dairy prices exploding, you'd think the biggest seller of corn flakes and Cocoa Puffs would be getting hit by rising food costs. But Wal-Mart has temporarily rolled back prices on hundreds of food items by as much as 30% this year. How? By pressuring vendors to take costs out of the supply chain.

"When our grocery suppliers bring price increases, we don't just accept them," says Pamela Kohn, Wal-Mart's general merchandise manager for perishables.

 

[Silver]

ps...Don't think of them as enviro-nazis. Think of them as externality detection agents.

Goddamn, that's almost economics poetry...