[kidwoo]

I'm on search for this one regarding a conversation I had last night.
Most answers I seem to get on this are along the lines of "1)well because she's a b!tch, 2)the family has no morals, 3) she's a loudmouth and/or didn't know her "place""

My thoughts on these are

1) ..........

2) In the tradition of Christ's teachings, she forgave her husband and maintained the family structure. As far as the Whitewater issue, even the "independant" counsel investigation came up with no charges/indictments from what I remember at least.

3) While certainly vocal, I saw Nancy Regan's crusade on drugs contribute to (maybe indirectly) more actual legislation than anything Hillary Clinton ever did in her "role" as first lady. If there's anything in particular she voiced regularly that angered you, what was it? I saw a really interesting paper on this one but I'll save it unless someone's really interested.

I'm just looking for real reasons, or something she actually DID that justifies the hatred so many people seem to have for her.

This is going to be a wierd can of worms but come on, participate. It's fun!!

Just please no "If you have to ask, you're an idiot" retorts. Yes, I'm an idiot. Inform me.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Im going with number 1.

 

[Lexx D]

They dislike her because she will be our Leader one day

 

[narlus]

was #1 edited?

 

[kidwoo]

was #1 edited?

No, that was my way of saying that criticism 1) wasn't worth responding to. I edited the post for a spelling error.

And then of course Burly Surly jumps right into the trap as well as doing exactly what he accuses Biggins of......ot backing himself up when he just blurts out name calling.

But seriously Burly, what did she actually DO to gain your criticism?

I'm genuinely curious. I've never started a thread in the political debate forum because it's not something I usually feel like discussing but I'm actually looking for info, not necessarily trying to start a fight.

I spent most of the 90's studying and only really getting involved in politics on a local level when it involved getting bike trails shut down. But I do know that there is a severe hatred for this woman and I can't really figure out why.

 

[Jesus]

Cause she stayed with her husband even after he cheated NUMEROUS times.

She is as bad as he is. It's like saying "it's okay to cheat".

Plus, we all know she only stayed for the money anyways.

 

[pnj]

Plus, we all know she only stayed for the money anyways.

exactly. she cares more about the power and money then she does fixing or changing anything.

like all politicians...... :mumble:

 

[kidwoo]

exactly. she cares more about the power and money then she does fixing or changing anything.

like all politicians...... :mumble:

So in a way, does that invalidate the complaint? If everyone in politics is in it for the power and money, she's no different from her peers then. I know she's a senator now, possibly using the publicity she got as her husband was president so that may help the argument. I don't think "first lady" is really a job per se.......but could be seen as being used for a stepping stone.

So Jesus, forgiveness has a limit? That means something coming from well, you know, Jesus.....

Who was there? I remember Jennifer Flowers....... But was that one ever confirmed? Were there others as well?

I've heard of GWBush forcing one of his girlfriends to get an abortion in college. She made the claim but then withdrew it....

So far we've got what I guess would fall into "moral" arguments on character which there's certainly some relevance to her husband since he was the job holder I guess. JFK had some affairs and Jackie stayed.... Did people despise her?

I guess it just seemed to me that she was a target the right used during Clinton's presidency, even before all the affair allegations started (I still only remember the Lewinsky one actually sticking). I'm just trying to figure out why beyond the things people like Rush Limbaugh always spouts off about.

Thanks for your answers.

 

[Silver]

Cause she stayed with her husband even after he cheated NUMEROUS times.

She is as bad as he is. It's like saying "it's okay to cheat".

Plus, we all know she only stayed for the money anyways.

I don't know about that. She was lawyer...I don't think coin is her major concern.

 

[Jesus]

Lawyers, politicians...they all SUCK!!!!

I don't care what the party affiliation is, I never heard of a decent politician...ever!

They will all go straight to HELL!

 

[Lexx D]

They will all go straight to HELL!

Except for Bush, he's just a nice christian boy.

 

[pnj]

So in a way, does that invalidate the complaint? If everyone in politics is in it for the power and money, she's no different from her peers then.

that's right. that and the fact that she's a woman.

"i don't know what phalocentric means, but NO GIRLS!"

ink:

 

[Echo]

As far as that dumb bitch is concerned, New York consists of New York City. She doesn't give a rat's ass about the rest of the state, because as long as she can get New York City's votes, she wins.

Now picture what will happen if she's president... I wouldn't want to live in Idaho, that's for sure.

 

[Silver]

Now picture what will happen if she's president... I wouldn't want to live in Idaho, that's for sure.

You want to live in Idaho now?

 

[Echo]

You want to live in Idaho now?

Actually no

 

[bpatterson6]

I'm on search for this one regarding a conversation I had last night.
Most answers I seem to get on this are along the lines of "1)well because she's a b!tch, 2)the family has no morals, 3) she's a loudmouth and/or didn't know her "place""

My thoughts on these are

1) ..........

2) In the tradition of Christ's teachings, she forgave her husband and maintained the family structure. As far as the Whitewater issue, even the "independant" counsel investigation came up with no charges/indictments from what I remember at least.

3) While certainly vocal, I saw Nancy Regan's crusade on drugs contribute to (maybe indirectly) more actual legislation than anything Hillary Clinton ever did in her "role" as first lady. If there's anything in particular she voiced regularly that angered you, what was it? I saw a really interesting paper on this one but I'll save it unless someone's really interested.

I'm just looking for real reasons, or something she actually DID that justifies the hatred so many people seem to have for her.

This is going to be a wierd can of worms but come on, participate. It's fun!!

Just please no "If you have to ask, you're an idiot" retorts. Yes, I'm an idiot. Inform me.

Even hard core Liberals I know hate her. As far as they are concerned any bad word you can think of to trash someone fits her description. IMO Our country is in deep trouble if that ever happens. My Wife and I have already Agreed that "IF" Billary were ever elected we would haul azz to Canada.

 

[valve bouncer]

So, all this vitriol but not one person can actually say what she has done wrong.

 

[Silver]

Even hard core Liberals I know hate her. As far as they are concerned any bad word you can think of to trash someone fits her description. IMO Our country is in deep trouble if that ever happens. My Wife and I have already Agreed that "IF" Billary were ever elected we would haul azz to Canada.

That's funny...I think the country would be a better place if frat boy retards didn't get elected...and Hilary, whatever her faults, isn't one of those.

See you up north

 

[bpatterson6]

That's funny...I think the country would be a better place if frat boy retards didn't get elected...and Hilary, whatever her faults, isn't one of those.

See you up north

Yuck. Yuck.

 

[kidwoo]

So, all this vitriol but not one person can actually say what she has done wrong.

Kind of my point. It's like a being in a club or something.

There are people in office whom I dislike but I can for the most part give you reasons based on their actual job performance and/or legislation written or voted upon by them.

I'm actually trying to find justification for why she's such a popular target and no one has provided it except for maybe Jesus (I love saying that, thank you). But even his reason was based on how he thinks other people should handle their marriage. Even that's not really a reason for hatred, more like disaproval.

Hard to say what one's true motives are but from what I've read, her desire to run for the Senate had a bit to do with getting away from her husband and desire to establish herself to some degree by continuing to be a champion for some of the causes her and Bill stood for. The same causes that so many people tried to dismiss and just label him immoral. Like silver said, the money argument can only go so far. And even then, it's still only really an asumption.

Come on guys, seriously. Giving as your own reasons, "lot's of people dislike her" doesn't help your case much.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Actually, here are 327 reasons why people hate her. Pretty thorough really.

http://www.famousidiot.com/index.php?celebrity_id=84&PHPSESSID=07f456e210e2071bb9788545f05e9f11

 

[kidwoo]

Actually, here are 327 reasons why people hate her. Pretty thorough really.

http://www.famousidiot.com/index.php?celebrity_id=84&PHPSESSID=07f456e210e2071bb9788545f05e9f11

You didn't read it did you?

I found a page with quotes and statements from her and then a bunch of bashing and defending in ensuing comment sections. What did you find with that link?

Tell me what YOUR beef is. Don't just post a quick link with a bunch of snide comments. If you really feel strongly about this, take the time a type a bit. Take some responsibility.

 

[BurlyShirley]

You didn't read it did you?

I found a page with quotes and statements from her and then a bunch of bashing and defending in ensuing comment sections. What did you find with that link?

Tell me what YOUR beef is. Don't just post a quick link with a bunch of snide comments. If you really feel strongly about this, take the time a type a bit. Take some responsibility.

I already said in the first post that I'll go with #1. Hating someone for being a b!tch is not unreasonable, is it?
She's snide and snooty and always being a bitch, so i hate her.

EDIT: And to put it in perspective, I also hate Dr. Laura Schlesinger, who although quite conservative, is also a raging bitch.

 

[kidwoo]

I already said in the first post that I'll go with #1. Hating someone for being a b!tch is not unreasonable, is it?
She's snide and snooty and always being a bitch, so i hate her.

EDIT: And to put it in perspective, I also hate Dr. Laura Schlesinger, who although quite conservative, is also a raging bitch.

That's cool. I would appreciate hearing more about why you think she's a b!tch but you've said enough....no need to elaborate.

 

[Toshi]

my reasons:

a) she married bill clinton. that's low, since you know he's been fooling around since the beginning of time.
b) she has a holier-than-thou aura
c) moving to new york solely to poach the senate seat is kind of reverse carpetbagging

 

[ohio]

I posted this question before... can't find the thread though. If I remember, llkoolkeg has the most reasoned and informed responses. Apparently she made comments after Bills affair that she wouldn't be "some Tammy Winette, standing by her man..." that pissed a lot of people off. I guess bashers like to have it both ways. Either she's a power-hungry push-over for staying with him, or she's new-age asexual bee-otch for not knowing her role as a wife. The other good reason was her poaching the NY senate seat as an out-of-stater, though plenty of other politicians have done the same without inciting the same hatred. Not that it's a Senate seat, but no one seems to mind Bill's new location in Harlem.

My original post came about because I thought I didn't like her at all, but then couldn't think of a good reason why. Apparently the "talking points" worked like a charm on me. Recognizing this, I'm actually trying to actively persuade myself I like her, but I can't get the pre-conception about her personality out of my head.

 

[pnj]

I don't need a reason to hate.

 

[ohio]

She's snide and snooty and always being a bitch, so i hate her.

Whereas Laura Bush is modest and warm (not being sarcastic). It's amazing to me that someone's suitability for a political role is based SO purely on personality. IMO, Laura Bush is certainly the nicer of the pair, but she strikes me as an unqualified trophy wife who's pushing back gender roles 60 years. I half expect her to show up at rallies in an apron with a tray of bun-cakes, with a perfect smile and a "tee-hee." It's just amazing to me how negatively people respond to a 1st lady with any ambition. I personally have more respect for a guy who dates/marries a woman with some drive that is equal or greater than his own (not that Heinz-Kerry fits this description).

 

[BurlyShirley]

Whereas Laura Bush is modest and warm (not being sarcastic). It's amazing to me that someone's suitability for a political role is based SO purely on personality. IMO, Laura Bush is certainly the nicer of the pair, but she strikes me as an unqualified trophy wife who's pushing back gender roles 60 years. I half expect her to show up at rallies in an apron with a tray of bun-cakes, with a perfect smile and a "tee-hee." It's just amazing to me how negatively people respond to a 1st lady with any ambition. I personally have more respect for a guy who dates/marries a woman with some drive that is equal or greater than his own (not that Heinz-Kerry fits this description).

You would.

I happen to like women who are a bit more traditional, and I dont mind that a politician's wife portrays that at all. Im not against the idea of women being equal and having careers or anything, but I think in terms of family, someone being a housewife is perfectly reasonable and acceptable. When I have children, either myself or my wife will stay home with them if it is at all affordable. It is all but necessary IMO, and people who just put their kids in daycare and go to their jobs are not being the best parents possible. I think its wrong for this sort of lifestyle to be degraded like Heinz-Kerry (I also hate hyphenated last names) did to Laura Bush last week.

EDIT: And gender roles do exist for a reason Ohio. Dont be stupid. Women do the lactating, right?

 

[ohio]

EDIT: And gender roles do exist for a reason Ohio. Dont be stupid. Women do the lactating, right?

Watch who you're calling stupid. Not only do I agree that gender roles exist for a reason, I'm a pretty ardent supporter of evolutionary psychology which puts me very at odds with hardcore feminism.

I have no problem with anyone choosing to be a housewife or househusband (still sounds wierd...). It's the way I was raised, and I have a tremendous amount of respect for the time and effort it takes to do it right. At the same time, I feel Heinz-Kerry was onto a little bit of something. Her apology shouldn't have been "I didn't realize she was a librarian," it should have been "raising two kids IS a real job." As for librarian/teacher, Heinz gave a political answer of "it's the most important job." What a load of BS. Being president is the most important job. Being a teacher is just very noble.

I would be much more impressed by someone who gave up a promising career in medicine or business to raise their children. Laura didn't give up a whole lot, married a rich guy who thought she was hot, and did a (on the surface, at least) mediocre job of raising her girls. But she's extremely likeable because she's abut as mainstream, traditional, and unopinionated as it gets. Even Barbara Bush had more ambition and opinion.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Watch who you're calling stupid. Not only do I agree that gender roles exist for a reason, I'm a pretty ardent supporter of evolutionary psychology which puts me very at odds with hardcore feminism.

My mistake, but when you said:

IMO, Laura Bush is certainly the nicer of the pair, but she strikes me as an unqualified trophy wife who's pushing back gender roles 60 years.

I was assuming you meant it because of the role she plays willingly and publicly. I dont see exactly how being a supporter of that pushes back gender roles 60 years.

 

[ohio]

My mistake, but when you said:



I was assuming you meant it because of the role she plays willingly and publicly. I dont see exactly how being a supporter of that pushes back gender roles 60 years.

I wasn't talking about occupation choice. I was talking about being unopinionated and unambitious. The kids are out of the house, and she's in a position of enormous influence. I think she either IS unopinionated and unambitious, or has wasted an opportunity for the sake of making her husband appear softer than he is and appealing to folks that think a wife should shut up and know her role.

 

[Damn True]

Geez Ohio, you refer to Laura Bush as Hot but a bit vacant.....like its a bad thing.

 

[Silver]

That's simple, ohio.

She can't open her mouth that often, because it makes her husband look bad. She can string a sentence together without a shrug and a smirk...George can't do that.

 

[BurlyShirley]

That's simple, ohio.

She can't open her mouth that often, because it makes her husband look bad. She can string a sentence together without a shrug and a smirk...George can't do that.

So is Bush stupid, or a sly criminal?
I dont think its possible to be both, is it?

 

[Silver]

So is Bush stupid, or a sly criminal?
I dont think its possible to be both, is it?

Stupid. George Bush without his last name is selling manure in Texas somewhere, or he's in the can on securities fraud charges.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Stupid. George Bush without his last name is selling manure in Texas somewhere, or he's in the can on securities fraud charges.

Ok then, no more crook charges for you.

 

[Silver]

Ok then, no more crook charges for you.

I don't think I said Bush was a crook. I said he was a ignoramus who happened to have his finger on the button, hearing voices from God, but I don't think I said he was a crook.

Cheney on the other hand...

 

[Damn True]

Ya know.....GW Bush, Hillary Clinton, and Bill Clinton all graduated from the same University.

 

[MMike]

Ya know.....GW Bush, Hillary Clinton, and Bill Clinton all graduated from the same University.

And their respective GPA's were...? And the respective degrees they earned were...?