[dexterq20]

Oh... wait... no, not that kind of play, you sick little .

My new Gemini DH has developed play in and/or around the rear axle, but it's not in the hub. When the wheel is removed, the hub is totally solid and has zero play in the bearings. However, when the wheel is installed, there is definitely some side-to-side play. I just can't figure out what it is or where it's coming from. The rear axle has been properly tightened, and I'm pretty darn sure that the movement isn't coming from the floating brake assembly, so what else could it be? Anybody else have experience with this, or any ideas?

 

[binary visions]

When the hub is installed, it's tight? That is, with the spokes and rim removed? If there's no play anywhere when the hub is sitting on the axle and everything is tightened, it has to be the spokes or rim.

If your spokes are well-tensioned, it could be that the spoke elbows aren't sitting in the hub properly... They sell little spoke washers that you can use when building a wheel. Just a guess, though.

 

[utmtbiker4000]

if it's new...I would see what you can do with the warranty. Because I don't think that sounds very good for a new bike

 

[dexterq20]

When the hub is installed, it's tight? That is, with the spokes and rim removed? If there's no play anywhere when the hub is sitting on the axle and everything is tightened, it has to be the spokes or rim.

If your spokes are well-tensioned, it could be that the spoke elbows aren't sitting in the hub properly... They sell little spoke washers that you can use when building a wheel. Just a guess, though.

Spokes are definitely tensioned, but that's something I hadn't even thought about. I'll have to take a look at the spokes. I never checked the hub in the frame before I built it up.

if it's new...I would see what you can do with the warranty.

Well, it turns out that I work at a Cannondale dealer, and our rep is dropping in for a visit on Tuesday, so I had already planned to show it to him. Also, my manager at work has the same frame, so I'm gonna try installing his rear wheel on my bike, so that way I'll be able to tell if it's my hub or my frame that has the problem.

God damn, bikes are frustrating.

 

[Jm_]

check the bearings and cones really well?

 

[dexterq20]

check the bearings and cones really well?

I already messed with the hub's adjustment, and it's as tight as it's gonna get.

 

[dexterq20]

Okay, okay...

Just looked at it again, and I noticed my rear brake was rubbing on the left side of the caliper. Hmmm... it wasn't doing that before. So I grabbed the tire and pulled it to the right, felt the tiny bit of play, and voila! No more brake rub. So, it is the hub. From what I can tell, it looks like you need the leverage of the whole wheel installed on the bike to detect the play, because when off the bike, the play in the hub is undetectable. God dammit. Warranty department, here I come.

 

[Curb Hucker]

Okay, okay...

Just looked at it again, and I noticed my rear brake was rubbing on the left side of the caliper. Hmmm... it wasn't doing that before. So I grabbed the tire and pulled it to the right, felt the tiny bit of play, and voila! No more brake rub. So, it is the hub. From what I can tell, it looks like you need the leverage of the whole wheel installed on the bike to detect the play, because when off the bike, the play in the hub is undetectable. God dammit. Warranty department, here I come.

doesnt that drive ya nuts, my bb took a sh1t last week; when you are riding you can feel it all loose, and feel 3 big clunks, but when not riding i cant even feel any play

 

[SirChomps-a-Lot]

Dude, you have to beat someone up your first day...

 

[Jm_]

Dude, you have to beat someone up your first day...

that's the key.

 

[dexterq20]

Dude, you have to beat someone up your first day...

that's the key.

You guys preaching from personal experience? :devil:

 

[zane]

Is the hub new? If not, has it been rebuilt by anyone with shady mechanic meathods? (not accusing you of anything...). It sounds to me like you have the wrong bearing(s) in the hub, and the ID of the bearing is a tiny bit bigger than the OD of the axle where it sits. When the hub is tight everything's pressed together so it won't wiggle, but the leverage of the wheel will allow the bearings to move up and down the tiniest bit on the alxe. This all applies if your hub has cartridge bearings....

 

[Brian HCM#1]

doesnt that drive ya nuts, my bb took a sh1t last week; when you are riding you can feel it all loose, and feel 3 big clunks, but when not riding i cant even feel any play

Too many curb drops

 

[Fulton]

just out of curosity, what hub are you running?

 

[profro]

Coda :devil:


Couldn't resist.

 

[Zman]

are you running a bolt on axle? cause if you are when you tightne down the nuts you will actually pull the cones away from the bearings and that will cause play in the hub. a properly adjusted hub for bolt on is a little crunchy and a little play for QR, you wouldn;t think all that metal would compress/expand liek it does, but it happens, so try tightening it a bit if it is a bolt on

 

[binary visions]

are you running a bolt on axle?

Gemini DH uses a 12mm thru-axle, not a bolt on...

 

[punkassean]

On thru-axle hubs doesn't tightening the axle adjust the pre-load on the hub bearings?

 

[dexterq20]

just out of curosity, what hub are you running?

The P.O.S. Cannondale Thru-12 hub that came with the frame. I think it's made by Formula.

 

[neversummersnow]

My guess is that its the pivot. Cannondale made the pivot axle a bit too long, its fine right from the factory, but once everything beds in, play sometimes develops. You can't get the pivot tight enough because the axle bottoms out. Take the pivot apart, grind the end down just a touch/put a coke can shim in it. (your pick) Tighten it all down and its good.

Other than that it could be the sealed bearings IN the hub, but this is doubtfull. I've taken apart my C-dale hub a few times now and its still solid. It's made it through the East Coast mud, roof top hurricanes and the silt/dust of my own region without a hickup.

 

[dexterq20]

My guess is that its the pivot.

Nope. Read below:

Just looked at it again, and I noticed my rear brake was rubbing on the left side of the caliper. Hmmm... it wasn't doing that before. So I grabbed the tire and pulled it to the right, felt the tiny bit of play, and voila! No more brake rub. So, it is the hub. From what I can tell, it looks like you need the leverage of the whole wheel installed on the bike to detect the play, because when off the bike, the play in the hub is undetectable. God dammit. Warranty department, here I come.

It's definitely the hub, cuz if it was the pivot, the brake rotor wouldn't be moving horizontally, independent of the caliper. The C-dale rep is coming to my shop tomorrow, so I'm gonna show it to him and see what he says.

 

[Curb Hucker]

The P.O.S. Cannondale Thru-12 hub that came with the frame. I think it's made by Formula.

If that sh1t's made with unsealed-non cartridge bearings you probably have your hub tight but the cones not sitting properly on the bearings causing the play

 

[biggins]

if it looks anything like my avatar i can tell ya exactly why it gets so much play

 

[dexterq20]

If that sh1t's made with unsealed-non cartridge bearings you probably have your hub tight but the cones not sitting properly on the bearings causing the play

No no no, it's definitely a sealed cartridge bearing hub, yet for some reason it's got an adjustment on it (19mm cone wrench on non-drive side, 18mm cone wrench on drive side).

 

[Curb Hucker]

No no no, it's definitely a sealed cartridge bearing hub, yet for some reason it's got an adjustment on it (19mm cone wrench on non-drive side, 18mm cone wrench on drive side).

fiddle around with both sides, thats your bearing preload and i bet its causing your play

 

[dexterq20]

fiddle around with both sides, thats your bearing preload and i bet its causing your play

Yeah, I thought I'd gotten it pretty stinkin' tight, but I'll have to take another look at it. Hopefully that'll solve the problem. Keep your fingers crossed.

 

[Heath Sherratt]

My guess is that its the pivot. Cannondale made the pivot axle a bit too long, its fine right from the factory, but once everything beds in, play sometimes develops. You can't get the pivot tight enough because the axle bottoms out. Take the pivot apart, grind the end down just a touch/put a coke can shim in it. (your pick) Tighten it all down and its good.

Other than that it could be the sealed bearings IN the hub, but this is doubtfull. I've taken apart my C-dale hub a few times now and its still solid. It's made it through the East Coast mud, roof top hurricanes and the silt/dust of my own region without a hickup.

'Sup. I have this bike and it is definetly the hub. Yes the female side of the pivot bolts has had that problem on some of their bikes but that's not it. You feel that when you hold the tire down and pull up on the seat, Dexter is having the problem of having a formula hub spec'd on such an awesome frame. The new gemini dh frames come with ringle hubs. Problem solved.