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Why Lord of the Rings Will - and Must - Be Remade

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
Why Lord of the Rings Will - and Must - Be Remade
Tech Central Station | 7-16-2004 | Doug Kern

More Lord of the Rings movies -- oh, yesss, preciousss, we wantsss them.

And within the next twenty or thirty years, we'll get them. Children who watched the Lord of the Rings trilogy will take their own children to a complete remake of the Lord of the Rings trilogy. It's inevitable.

Most great movies will never be remade. We will never see remakes of The Godfather, or Gone with the Wind, or even Star Wars. But Lord of the Rings is different.

Why? Consider these five reasons.

The pre-existing fame of the LOTR novels prevents the actors in the LOTR trilogy from dominating the roles they played.

No sane actor would dare to recreate the role of Vito Corleone; the role is bound up too tightly with the performance of Marlon Brando. Similarly, what actress can hope to compete with Vivian Leigh's Scarlett O'Hara? But in the current LOTR trilogy, no actor consumes his role so completely. The finest performance in LOTR (Gollum notwithstanding) may have come from Ian McKellan as Gandalf. Yet, much as I enjoyed his performance, I can think of several actors who could have done as good a job portraying Gandalf: Sean Connery, Brian Blessed, Derek Jacobi, Anthony Hopkins, Michael Caine, Patrick Stewart -- the list goes on. The major characters in LOTR are so densely textured in the books -- and yet so indelibly etched into the minds of Tolkien's fans, after decades of reading and re-reading the novels -- that the performances of the leads in the current trilogy seem like interpretations of the characters, rather than definitions. Moreover, Peter Jackson's direction emphasized plot, rather than characterization, thus allowing room for future actors to place their own imprints on the characters in a way that would be impossible in other remakes.

Tolkien's novels are so richly detailed and his plots so intricately crafted that future directors will be able to re-tell the story from their own unique vantage points.

Star Wars could be remade, but the story could only be retold -- not re-imagined. Cinematically, there is nothing more to the Star Wars world beyond what George Lucas has chosen to show us. Star Wars offers no themes to balance, no nuances to explore, and no room for a director to craft a new vision. A remake could only imitate the original. It could not create, but only re-create.

By contrast, a remake of LOTR could be art. Tolkien's novels teem over with themes, motifs, and plot notes that a thoughtful director could explore in ways that Peter Jackson didn't. For example: my favorite aspect of the LOTR novels is the pervasive and melancholy sense of loss that permeates every page. All the wise characters realize that the world they knew is slipping away, and even victory cannot prevent the great ships from sailing into the West. The heroes fight less for their own dying world than for a world yet to come; strength and vitality ebb from all things great and marvelous, and the stain of evil is not easily erased, if indeed it is erased at all. Jackson touches only lightly upon this dolorous theme; a different director could make that theme the center of the movie, thus changing the trilogy completely. Then again, one could imagine a lighter, more childlike LOTR told from the point-of-view of the Hobbits -- or a LOTR that focuses more explicitly upon the religious overtones of the novels -- or a LOTR told from the perspective of the One Ring itself. One LOTR trilogy cannot come close to telling the story in every way that it can and should be told.

Computer graphics will continue to improve, allowing the inexpensive creation of a new trilogy with spectacular visual effects.

Twenty-two years ago, the summit of computer-designed movie effects was Tron. The recent video game, Tron 2.0, has vastly better graphic effects than the movie upon which it is based. A low-end home computer can now produce more sophisticated special effects than state-of-the-art computers from twenty-two years ago. In a decade or two, the dustiest, most obsolete computer abandoned in the darkest corner of a Middle American basement will have more graphics-generating power than every computer used to create the effects for the current LOTR trilogy. Future audiences will sneer at crude, quaint graphics from the days when a Pentium IV was considered high-tech. Imagine the kind of visual miracles that the cutting-edge computers of 2026 will be able to create! The temptation to produce a new trilogy with super-modern special effects will be irresistible.

Consider, too, that advanced computer graphics will make the production of a new LOTR trilogy cheaper than the first one. Who needs to rent the New Zealand army, once a computer can create hordes of orcs indistinguishable from makeup-clad extras? And who needs New Zealand mountains, when a computer can make a Burbank backlot look just as good?

The cost of actors won't go down in the future, and their quality won't improve. But computer graphics will get cheaper and better -- thus making a LOTR remake cheaper and better, and thus more likely to be made.

Every fanboy who watched LOTR is privately convinced that he could do a better job directing. One day, one of those fanboys will be in a position to do so.

Admit it, geek. Maybe it was in the middle of your second viewing of The Two Towers: Special Edition, or maybe it was when you were savoring ending #37 of Return of the King, but at some point you thought to yourself: "This is great, but if only they had let me direct -- if only I could have filmed my vision of the Council of Elrond and Tom Bombadil and the Scouring of the Shire and an Aragorn with broader shoulders and a deeper voice -- it would've been perfect."

I had that moment. So did you. So did a future director. Somewhere in America, a kid with a bad complexion and a limited social life is busily filling a secret notebook with plans for "Lord of the Rings -- The Right Way." And after he wins his second Oscar, the details of that notebook will be coming to a theater near you.

Cha-ching. LOTR = $$$.

Total worldwide box office receipts for the LOTR trilogy fell just short of three billion dollars, and that number doesn't reflect DVD sales, movie rentals, or merchandising. At a production cost of $300 million, the LOTR trilogy turned a 10:1 profit - a phenomenal achievement! If a LOTR remake sells only half as many tickets as the first trilogy, it still earns 1.5 billion dollars (in 2004 dollars). Considering that the cost of making a new LOTR trilogy will go down, not up, it's certain that some studio somewhere will want another ride on this gravy train.

As the LOTR movies air endlessly on cable and regular TV, and as the DVDs take up residence in every American home, LOTR will become a fixture in our pop cultural landscape. Every person who could conceivably enjoy LOTR will see the original movies sooner or later. And everyone who enjoyed the original movies will want to see the remakes. The market for a LOTR remake will expand, not contract. This growing LOTR enthusiasm explains why the most popular LOTR movie was the last one -- not the first.

Ask yourself: if, tomorrow, somebody released an old forgotten version of the LOTR trilogy shot in Argentina or China in the seventies, would you pay eight dollars to see it at the Cineplex? I'd pay eighty dollars. And the first trilogy hasn't even been out for a year! Imagine how eager we'll be for a first-class Hollywood-style Hobbit reload after twenty lonely, questless years. Some movie studio will make a fortune treating our elf-withdrawal pains.

Both the novels and the movies of the Lord of the Rings are assuming a canonical position in Western culture. In twenty years, a remake of LOTR will seem as obvious and natural as a new movie of Hamlet, or a new operatic performance of Wagner's Ring cycle. The Hobbits are here to stay, and Jackson's masterpiece is only the first grand cinematic exploration of Tolkien's epic. When it comes to Middle-Earth, the movie road goes ever on.
 

Jozz

Joe Dalton
Apr 18, 2002
6,141
7,829
SADL
stosh said:
Bwahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

It's like he's been hanging out here

http://boards1.wizards.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=8
OMG :eek:

Just clicked on one for the heck of it...

Now, before the pointless and unhelpful answers come back, I'm WELL aware that, technically, within the raw rules, you DO NOT provoke attacks of opportunity by being helpless, defenseless, etc.
However, the problem comes down to your imagination. When an AoO is described to us in the PHB, it is described as something that happens to disrupt an action out of turn, because the action takes the character's focus away from defending themselves, or puts them off balance, etc. An example woud be aiming to throw a dagger - you have to line up your throw and you have to be still to do this, thus your opponents in melee can hit you easily.
When you provoke an AoO, you get hit, but your opponent is still defending themselves, thus they don't just wail on you, they make only one AoO per round. (Archers are thanking the deities for that right now!)
SOOOOOOOOOOO............
Why exactly is it that when you're helpless, you DON'T provoke AoOs? Logically, if we set the rules aside, you have no way of moving or defending yourself. So you should be open to major shreddage by Barbarians in rage, etc. However, the problem comes when we realise that you don't provoke AoOs and you also don't allow your opponents to make more attacks per round...
The combat system in DnD is explained as you and your opponent constantly swirling around, trading blows and parrying, blocking, dodging, etc, and getting the odd one or two hits in between all those parries, etc. These are your attacks per round, made when your opponent lets their guard down, or goes on the offensive and misses, etc. Now the main problem here is that when you're defenseless, you aren't parrying, dodging, etc. Therefore you should be able to hit a defenseless opponent constantly, rather than just once or twice per round.

Now the REAL illogical thing comes when we apply this to objects.
If we believe the idea that the combat is a swirling melee, with many blows being traded, dodges and parries, blocks with shields, feints, etc, happening in the 6 seconds, then the "only 1 attack per round" idea makes sense. But how in hell's name does that idea make sense if you're striking an unattended object in an almost empty room where there are no other possible threats? You're not defending yourself, and your opponent isn't defending themselves, since they are an object, unable to move. So where's all that time that you normally spend parrying, etc, going!?

My suggestion so far is that when you attack an object, or a helpless defender, you take the difference between your number of attacks in a full attack (before TWF, FoB, etc) and the maximum number of attacks in a full attack (i.e. the number you would have if you were lvl20 with a full BAB) and then you get that number of extra attacks, at your lowest attack-2 bonus.
(Example: Gus the trooper is a lvl 5 fighter. He has a BAB of +5. when in combat with another creature, but when he attacks an object, he has attacks at +5/+3/+3/+3.)

However, you can't do this when you are in melee with, or threatened by, other opponents.
Anyone like it?
 

stosh

Darth Bailer
Jul 20, 2001
22,248
408
NY
Don't know how many of you watch Reno 911 but the other day they responded to an out of control D&D party. It was pretty funny stuff!!
 

Tully

Monkey
Oct 8, 2003
981
0
Seattle, WA
Jozz said:
OMG :eek:

Just clicked on one for the heck of it...

Now, before the pointless and unhelpful answers come back, I'm WELL aware that, technically, within the raw rules, you DO NOT provoke attacks of opportunity by being helpless, defenseless, etc.
However, the problem comes down to your imagination. When an AoO is described to us in the PHB, it is described as something that happens to disrupt an action out of turn, because the action takes the character's focus away from defending themselves, or puts them off balance, etc. An example woud be aiming to throw a dagger - you have to line up your throw and you have to be still to do this, thus your opponents in melee can hit you easily.
When you provoke an AoO, you get hit, but your opponent is still defending themselves, thus they don't just wail on you, they make only one AoO per round. (Archers are thanking the deities for that right now!)
SOOOOOOOOOOO............
Why exactly is it that when you're helpless, you DON'T provoke AoOs? Logically, if we set the rules aside, you have no way of moving or defending yourself. So you should be open to major shreddage by Barbarians in rage, etc. However, the problem comes when we realise that you don't provoke AoOs and you also don't allow your opponents to make more attacks per round...
The combat system in DnD is explained as you and your opponent constantly swirling around, trading blows and parrying, blocking, dodging, etc, and getting the odd one or two hits in between all those parries, etc. These are your attacks per round, made when your opponent lets their guard down, or goes on the offensive and misses, etc. Now the main problem here is that when you're defenseless, you aren't parrying, dodging, etc. Therefore you should be able to hit a defenseless opponent constantly, rather than just once or twice per round.

Now the REAL illogical thing comes when we apply this to objects.
If we believe the idea that the combat is a swirling melee, with many blows being traded, dodges and parries, blocks with shields, feints, etc, happening in the 6 seconds, then the "only 1 attack per round" idea makes sense. But how in hell's name does that idea make sense if you're striking an unattended object in an almost empty room where there are no other possible threats? You're not defending yourself, and your opponent isn't defending themselves, since they are an object, unable to move. So where's all that time that you normally spend parrying, etc, going!?

My suggestion so far is that when you attack an object, or a helpless defender, you take the difference between your number of attacks in a full attack (before TWF, FoB, etc) and the maximum number of attacks in a full attack (i.e. the number you would have if you were lvl20 with a full BAB) and then you get that number of extra attacks, at your lowest attack-2 bonus.
(Example: Gus the trooper is a lvl 5 fighter. He has a BAB of +5. when in combat with another creature, but when he attacks an object, he has attacks at +5/+3/+3/+3.)

However, you can't do this when you are in melee with, or threatened by, other opponents.
Anyone like it?
Definitely the most pathetic thing I've seen today. And people say I have no life...:rolleyes:
 

greenreese

Monkey
Nov 11, 2003
221
0
stosh said:
Don't know how many of you watch Reno 911 but the other day they responded to an out of control D&D party. It was pretty funny stuff!!
That is the worst show ever.


-dAn
 

I Are Baboon

Vagina man
Aug 6, 2001
32,741
10,676
MTB New England
Jozz said:
OMG :eek:

Just clicked on one for the heck of it...
Another thread:

"Let's say you have a PC that is 7th level fighter/7th level Dervish, and he has 5 ranks in Tumble (which gives +3 dodge when fighting defensively and +6 dodge with total defense).

A 7th level Dervish gets "Elaborate Parry" which gives +4 bonus to AC when fighting defensively or using total defense.

So, this PC, when fighting defensively, would be -4 to hit and get +7 dodge to AC.

When using total defense, the PC would be +10 dodge to AC.

One of the prerequisites for a Dervish is Combat Expertise, which stacks with fighting defensively. Assuming the Dervish takes -5 to his attacks for the +5 dodge bonus and stacks it with the above fighting defensively, he would be -9 to hit and get +12 to AC.

So here's my question: Why would this PC ever use total defense? His bonus to AC is +10 and he can't attack, while if he used combat expertise and fighting defensively, he would be +12 to AC and still be able to attack (albeit at -9).

Am I missing something here???? "



LMAO!!!!

What the hell?